I know they're hiding somewhere here, so where are all the fast 2.8L Cavs and Berettas? Just how fast are they? In short, what can these motors do? If mine is rebuild-able, I'm definitely going to get some power under the hood (already working on suspension/tires/brakes), and want to see where the 2.8L stands. Yes, I know a 3400 swap is relatively easy, but I want to stick to as much original equipment as possible if I can.
2010 Honda Fit LX
honestly, dont bother building a 2.8, unless you are going to go with a 3400 top end. the gen 2 heads just dont flow what a newer head can and thats most of your power right there.
You're asking the same question as a SBC owner asking "Can I build a fast 265?" Well....yes....but why spend the extra effort and cash when building a 350 is easier and cheaper?
There's plenty of fast 60-V6s out there, but most aren't sticking with the original 2.8L displacement. You'd be likely to find some of the quicker stock displacement 2.8Ls in the Fiero world. In the FWD world, it's all gone to the 3x00.
1989 Z24 Convertible - Dust Covered
2006 tC - Dust Covered, but driven more
The problem with going to a 3x00 motor is quite simple: I don't have that kind of mechanical experience. This is all pretty new to me, and each simple repair is a slow and daunting task, as most of my work is done without any help, and all of it is my first time doing anything with a car. All I did with cars before this was drive them.
2010 Honda Fit LX
if you want to build a fast 2.8 you are deffenetly going to have to do ALOT of work.. but that all depends on what you call "Fast".. lol
i was working around in Desktop dyno trying to get a 2.8 to 200+ crank HP and came up with a decent setup..
Here are the specs:
"2800 MPFI"
2000+ 3100 SFI complete engine.
Swap in the 2.8 MPFI crank
Swap in the stock pistons and rods from a 2.8 V6 Fiero/Camaro
Use the 2.8 Camaro headgaskets
Cam grind number 1393 form the 60degreev6.com store
LS6 springs with custom length pushrods
Short tube headers or 3500 LX9 manifolds
24# injectors from a 3.4 DOHC
I forget the exact numbers but it made max power @ 6K RPM and was in the 220 HP range
But if you want to stay gen 2 then i'm sorry but there isn't alot of help for you. you could poke and hope.. a set of headers and a decent cam may help out a little but headers are hard to find and a cam would require you to pull out the engine..
The engine is coming out anyways, as it's seized up. It's just easier to stick with a Gen II motor since all the wiring mounts up. If it ends up being salvageable, I'm going to get the engine rebuilt and bored out. If it isn't worth it, I'm just going to buy a 3.1L and bolt it up to the old wiring, and see what I can do for some simple mods. I'm more looking for decent response and making a drive-able car than something to tear up the drag strip or the road course.
Also, when did I say I was against using forced induction?
I'm sure with a little work a supercharger would fit into the equation quite nicely. A turbo would, too. I doubt both would fit, but...
2010 Honda Fit LX
Quote:
I'm sure with a little work a supercharger would fit into the equation quite nicely. A turbo would, too. I doubt both would fit, but...
You say you have limited mechanical experience, yet aren't against a custom boost setup? Boost would require 3 times the amount of fabrication plus tuning than swapping a 3400 would.
1989 Z24 Convertible - Dust Covered
2006 tC - Dust Covered, but driven more
2.8's can certainly be made fast. When I bought my 89 Z24 way back in 1989, I also purchased a Chevrolet Performance Catalog. It went through step by step how to build a 2.8, which parts were best to use, etc. My info is almost 2 decades old, and like others have said, 3400 swaps are probably better, but I can give you a little info on how it performed new.
The stock 89 Z24 with a stock 2.8 and Getrag 5-speed was quicker than most things out at the time, except for Mustang GT's, Z28's and Trans Ams, especially what Japan offered. One of my friends had an 88 Grand Am SE Turbo, which could not keep up. It was able to peg the 120mph speedo easily in 4th gear. It was an easy 7.5 second trip to 60 mph, and high 15's in the 1/4 mile (if I remember, my best time was 15.6 @ 89mph). It was really a fun car that handled very well, for a front driver.
It didn't stay stock for long, however, as I read and re-read the 60-degree V6 section in the Chevy Performance book many times over (at the time, I could almost recite it verbatim). I read this along with Smoky Yunick's books. I had a set of custom headers made as per the specs in the Chevy book. The heads were machined as per the specs in the book as well. To make a long story short, I followed every recommendation, with the exception of using a carb, I stuck with the FI, but added larger injectors and eventually sent my ecu off for programming. I tried an off the shelf Superchips, but it didn't want to run the way I thought it should run, so I called them up, described my mods, and they took care of me. IIRC, the cam to use at the time was from 83(?) Chevy Citation X11!!
My modded Z24 would easily keep up with Mustang GT's, Z28's and Trans Ams of the time, except for the medium and heavily modified ones. It surprised almost everyone with how quick it was. I never took it back to the track, I should have, but never did. I would estimate that it would hit 60mph in a little less than 6 seconds and mid/low-14's in the 1/4. I'm guesstimating these numbers from what magazines tested stock GT's and Z28's at the time, and how much quicker my Z24 was. It was a very fun car.
As I stated earlier, my info for building a 2.8 is almost 20 years old, and the newer info is most definitely better and more reliable than my memory. But, a fast 2.8 is do-able. If I were going that route today, I would use a later 3400, and go from there, but 3.4's weren't available back in '89.
if you can take the motor out of your car, you can put a 3400 back in place. the motor will bolt in place of a 2.8l, with the excpection of the front mount, you need a custom bracket, or order one from online (several people making them). the clutch and tranny will bolt right up, no issues there. your factory wiring will plug right on with minor changes. you need to use a 3 wire coolant temp sensor, and wire the plug onto the wires for your existing 2 plugs, and you need to move the wiring for the coil packs, they are in a different location, however the wires will plug into it. you also need ot use a throttle cable from a beretta with a 3100. realy its an easy swap, a couple wire changes, a custom front mount bracket, and you have 180hp, 200+ft/lb torque, itll get better fuel mialage and is very reliable.
Ron Nottingham wrote:2.8's can certainly be made fast. When I bought my 89 Z24 way back in 1989, I also purchased a Chevrolet Performance Catalog. It went through step by step how to build a 2.8, which parts were best to use, etc. My info is almost 2 decades old, and like others have said, 3400 swaps are probably better, but I can give you a little info on how it performed new.
The stock 89 Z24 with a stock 2.8 and Getrag 5-speed was quicker than most things out at the time, except for Mustang GT's, Z28's and Trans Ams, especially what Japan offered. One of my friends had an 88 Grand Am SE Turbo, which could not keep up. It was able to peg the 120mph speedo easily in 4th gear. It was an easy 7.5 second trip to 60 mph, and high 15's in the 1/4 mile (if I remember, my best time was 15.6 @ 89mph). It was really a fun car that handled very well, for a front driver.
It didn't stay stock for long, however, as I read and re-read the 60-degree V6 section in the Chevy Performance book many times over (at the time, I could almost recite it verbatim). I read this along with Smoky Yunick's books. I had a set of custom headers made as per the specs in the Chevy book. The heads were machined as per the specs in the book as well. To make a long story short, I followed every recommendation, with the exception of using a carb, I stuck with the FI, but added larger injectors and eventually sent my ecu off for programming. I tried an off the shelf Superchips, but it didn't want to run the way I thought it should run, so I called them up, described my mods, and they took care of me. IIRC, the cam to use at the time was from 83(?) Chevy Citation X11!!
My modded Z24 would easily keep up with Mustang GT's, Z28's and Trans Ams of the time, except for the medium and heavily modified ones. It surprised almost everyone with how quick it was. I never took it back to the track, I should have, but never did. I would estimate that it would hit 60mph in a little less than 6 seconds and mid/low-14's in the 1/4. I'm guesstimating these numbers from what magazines tested stock GT's and Z28's at the time, and how much quicker my Z24 was. It was a very fun car.
As I stated earlier, my info for building a 2.8 is almost 20 years old, and the newer info is most definitely better and more reliable than my memory. But, a fast 2.8 is do-able. If I were going that route today, I would use a later 3400, and go from there, but 3.4's weren't available back in '89.
I'd be interrested in seeing those specs..
but as Sharkey said, the 3400 swap is very basic. I've had a 3400 and now a 3500 in my Z and helped with a few other 3400 swaps. The front bracket is avaliable from "Six Shooter" on V6Z24.com. the Coolant temp sensor takes like 5 minutes to hook up, you don't have to extend any wires for the swap, just pull the wire loom off, cut the electrical tape with a razer and pull the 2 wires back out of the harness so they end up where the coils mount on the 3400.. then tape the harness back together.
There is allready a chip out there that's tuned to run the stock 3400 injectors as well.
This could easily be doable then? I was under the impression that (bear in mind I was talking about it with a guy who works only on OHV cars, because he doesn't know anything about SOHC or DOHC engines, and almost nothing about any electrical components. When I showed him the VVT-i 1ZZFE under the hood of my Corolla, and explained the idea of Variable Valve Timing, I think some of his brain cells melted away) this would have tons of annoying little problems, and could take months to completely smooth out.
Now, I need some straight up answers to a question people seem to dodge around in these forums:
Who exactly, in a list of known suppliers, makes a custom mount for the 3400 into a J or L body? I'd be hoping for a polyurethane mount if possible.
Looks like I need to save some money and head down to Edmonton to get to Ye Olde Pick-A-Part for some stuff...
2010 Honda Fit LX
"sixshooter" on v6z24 and domesticcrew.com makes the mount brackets. you can also get it from jbodyperformance.com, however ithey arent high on my list. its not a complete mount, its the bracket that bolts the rubber mount to the engine. the difference is the 3400 has different mount bosses for the front mount.
the 3400 swap is well proven and documented (check out www.v6z24.com, they have more info)and realy is an easy swap. its the best bang for the buck, and is basicly a bolt in.
Superdave wrote:Ron Nottingham wrote:2.8's can certainly be made fast. When I bought my 89 Z24 way back in 1989, I also purchased a Chevrolet Performance Catalog. It went through step by step how to build a 2.8, which parts were best to use, etc. My info is almost 2 decades old, and like others have said, 3400 swaps are probably better, but I can give you a little info on how it performed new.
The stock 89 Z24 with a stock 2.8 and Getrag 5-speed was quicker than most things out at the time, except for Mustang GT's, Z28's and Trans Ams, especially what Japan offered. One of my friends had an 88 Grand Am SE Turbo, which could not keep up. It was able to peg the 120mph speedo easily in 4th gear. It was an easy 7.5 second trip to 60 mph, and high 15's in the 1/4 mile (if I remember, my best time was 15.6 @ 89mph). It was really a fun car that handled very well, for a front driver.
It didn't stay stock for long, however, as I read and re-read the 60-degree V6 section in the Chevy Performance book many times over (at the time, I could almost recite it verbatim). I read this along with Smoky Yunick's books. I had a set of custom headers made as per the specs in the Chevy book. The heads were machined as per the specs in the book as well. To make a long story short, I followed every recommendation, with the exception of using a carb, I stuck with the FI, but added larger injectors and eventually sent my ecu off for programming. I tried an off the shelf Superchips, but it didn't want to run the way I thought it should run, so I called them up, described my mods, and they took care of me. IIRC, the cam to use at the time was from 83(?) Chevy Citation X11!!
My modded Z24 would easily keep up with Mustang GT's, Z28's and Trans Ams of the time, except for the medium and heavily modified ones. It surprised almost everyone with how quick it was. I never took it back to the track, I should have, but never did. I would estimate that it would hit 60mph in a little less than 6 seconds and mid/low-14's in the 1/4. I'm guesstimating these numbers from what magazines tested stock GT's and Z28's at the time, and how much quicker my Z24 was. It was a very fun car.
As I stated earlier, my info for building a 2.8 is almost 20 years old, and the newer info is most definitely better and more reliable than my memory. But, a fast 2.8 is do-able. If I were going that route today, I would use a later 3400, and go from there, but 3.4's weren't available back in '89.
I'd be interrested in seeing those specs..
.
x2 on those specs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im making a fast 2.8,does that count?
Vote for my car for car of the month on www.v6z24.com..
i know that this is an old tread but i would like to know what book's he is talking about and where i could get them at ? i would love to see the specs that chevy has for a performance 60* V6 !
