** I'm kind of a Noob when it comes to this suspension here*****


I'm kind of leaning towards the bags but not sure yet! Any information will help alot!


What are your pro's and Con's for either or???


Easy Street Airbags or TEIN Dampers??



www.teamexoticimage.com / myspace.com/02on19s

I had the same dilema.
It came down to where I live, the roads, the weather, the fact that it's a dd...

I'd think about that first.
And then you can basically think of it like
air=low and look really good
tein=good handeling

that's how i look at it anways

-Seth

id think about how you drive. if you want performance u wont be happy with bags. if your more of a cruiser and not looking to take corners hard then maybe you'd be better on bags. my car now is mostly for show so its going to be allot nicer to just roll in and drop it on the ground so im installing bags. but when i first had the car i did some occasional autocrossing and for that i went with a strut spring combo. its really more a matter of how you drive your car and what you want it to do.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

Which Teins?

The SS's are miles ahead of the Basic's.

AIR

I love my air, but I loved my old spring setup, too.


-Brandon

i suggest start reading the faqs. it may help u decide

Appreciate the feedback_) I did read the faqs just wanted to see everyones point of view.



www.teamexoticimage.com / myspace.com/02on19s

Sorry to bring this back, but this is how I feel also. I plan on s/c my cavi, but I still want to go very low like air. But having the s/c might make me drive how I shouldn't with air. I still would like to hear some other povs and maybe some pics especially of easystreet and tein super street coilover setups. Thanks

If you plan to s/c it, I'd go with a coilover setup. Tein SS with EFDC. That will really get the power to the ground. People always want both extremes, show and performance. Face it, it's still a Cavalier but there are many upgrades that can make them run; of course with $$$$$.

I don't have any pics of either, but any car with air will look the same when lowered all the way.

Coilovers will also give you better performance in the twisties.

It's like comparing apples to oranges...Two totally different setups, for two totally different goals.

Thanks, I just need to make up my mind.
Air:
Good - Get somewhere, and just dump it and lay it out quickly
Bad - Can't drive as aggressive, possible leaks/breaking problems I've heard
SS Setup:
Good - Probly handles and rides extremely well, adjustable ride height, reliability
Bad - Not as aggressive look as air

Also, could you explain to me a little more about the Tein SS setup? Like what other parts are needed (shocks)?? Also, how do you adjust them? In the end I will probly go with the Tein SS setup just for reliability and driveability (sp?).

i just installed air, and i plan to s/c also. but im not really looking to race or anything. just to lay low and a quick 0-60 occasionally, lol. but i have heard some people prefer air in auto-x for the adjustability. but i wouldnt personally run air in auto-x or for drag. but air sure is fun





RIP Saint ........ JBO

Atk2008 wrote:Thanks, I just need to make up my mind.
Air:
Good - Get somewhere, and just dump it and lay it out quickly
Bad - Can't drive as aggressive, possible leaks/breaking problems I've heard
SS Setup:
Good - Probly handles and rides extremely well, adjustable ride height, reliability
Bad - Not as aggressive look as air

Also, could you explain to me a little more about the Tein SS setup? Like what other parts are needed (shocks)?? Also, how do you adjust them? In the end I will probly go with the Tein SS setup just for reliability and driveability (sp?).

You will need nothing with the SS set. It's all there, a complete coilover kit. Even comes with a kick ass mount!! Don't forget EDFC. Adjusting them is easy. You take the little wrench that was supplied, jack the car up, and twist. Not hard at all.

You're looking at the two extremes again. You can get the Tein's to go low, but one doesn't drive with them that low. When people have air and they show their car being slammed....they don't drive their car like that; too much stress on the system.

I wouldn't know this, but I'm assuming the SS's don't ride extremely well. I'm sure they can make the car handle like a dream, but in doing so, will require a sacrifice in ride quality.

All in all, the Tein SS kit is probably the most 'complete' coilover kit for our cars to date. Together with their EDFC, it makes for, in my opinion, the best setup for our cars if you're looking for overall handling and quality of product.

Also, don't forget bars - sway, strut...to complete the kit.

I know I wouldn't drive with either system all the way down; I would probably drive somewhere between stock height and a decent drop. Anyway, what is the EDFC thing you are talking about (sorry if it is a stupid question). You don't need shocks or struts or anythin to complete the SS system (again sorry if it is a stupid question). I definetly would get all the bars also; but could you explain a sway bar to me better (or give me a link if you want). Thanks for your time explaining and helping me out.

The EDFC allows you to adjsut the dampening on the struts from inside the car. I've been told by some people that have the Tein SS setup that the ride quality is really good, like a BMW 5 series good.

Wow that is good to hear. I would definetely add the EDFC if I went the SS route. So you can just adjust from inside the car without jacking it up?

Maybe you shouldn't get these if you don't know what you're getting into.

This is the Tein SS...


This is the EDFC...


You CAN'T adjust the ride height from inside the car. You CAN adjust the damping control, thus the EDFC (Electronic Damping Force Control). For best handling, the control arms should be parallel to the ground.

The SS's also come with a pillowball strut mount.

How to Install Tein SS

More Information on Tein SS

Anything and Everything about bars....

Funky Bottoms (Event) wrote:13) SWAYBAR/TIEBAR/SUBFRAME/BUSHING CHOICES

now if you dont know what these do, please check out the link to John Lenkos or read the above paragraphs.

now that you know WHAT they are and WHAT they do, here are the choices so far.

Swaybar choices

FRONT

-18mm stock FE1 bar (stock on 95-99)*
-22mm stock FE2 bar (stock on 2000-2002)*
-24mm stock FE3 bar (stock on 2003-2004)*
-25.4mm addco bar
-25.4mm eibach bar (-sold in combo with their 22mm rear)
-26mm mantapart.com bar
local place = custom bar

****kinda like the 3rd gen is still a 3rd gen from 95-04, but have series 1 (95-99), series 2 (00-02), and series 3 (03-04).... the suspension of "FE2" has a series 1 (00-02) and series 2 (03-04) ....the 2000 - 2002cars still run FE2 style 22mm front bars, the 03+ cars just have a 2mm upgrade.******
Part Numbers for Clamps and misc stuff if you car did not have a front bar stock

Quote:

I went to the local Chevy Parts Department today, and got a list of parts I'll need to install an FE2 bar on my FE0 Cavalier ... Here's the list he gave me:

2 Clamps 22660396
2 Insulators 22619843
4 Bolts 11516328
2 Links 22657718
courtesy of Josh.


REAR

***NO THIRDGEN EVER HAD A REAR SWAYBAR STOCK*** granted brochures NOW say thats what it is, its function does not even compare to a functioning swaybar. if you need more info visit this link.
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/swaybars.html

-19mm hellwig bar
-22mm eibach bar (-sold in conjunction with their 25.4mm front)
-22mm rksport bar
-22mm progressive technologies bar
-22mm mantapart.com bar
-25.4mm addco bar
-26mm mantapart .com bar
-local places = custom bar

TIE BARS:

-Control FX
-GRD (if you can find em)
-Custom made (easy to do)
-Trailblazer bar (cheap, but not really made to be a tie bar as the ends are supposed to have swivel points, as well as most dont even install them structurally correct. for most its on the car for looks than function. view post: http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=3&i=88368&t=88368
for CORRECT placement of ANY tie bar on a J-Body.) also view team forward motions site on tie bars. the links for that are:
http://www.teamforwardmotion.com/tfmtech/j-body/suspension/hellwig_tie_bar.htm and
http://www.teamforwardmotion.com/tfmtech/j-body/suspension/addco_tie_bar.htm
simply put theres a right way to do things and a wrong way.... i'll leave it at that.


SUBFRAME BRACES

-Custom (easy to do -- use search for posts entitled subframe, directions there as well as pics)
-Control FX (talk to vincent keen)
-Rksport
-Mantapart.com

Strut Braces
-Vibrant
-Ractive
-GM (see lenkos FAQ for part numbers)
-Freedom Design
-Helm Motorsports
-RSM
-Gravana (possibly soon to be released)
-DC SPORTS

BUSHINGS
Good alternative to tighten up slop, but only a few choices are available.(rksport, carcustoms, highrev, rsm, and most all places sell these)
Front End-
-Control Arm Bushings
-SwayBar Bushings

Rear End-
-Trailing Arm Bushings (RSM ONLY AS OF NOW SELLS THESE)
-Swaybar Bushings

Forgot to add this as well. If you don't understand now, then maybe you shouldn't be driving a modded car.

Quote:

12) John Lenkos FAQ - Definitions of parts included
*** Written By John Lenko***

Suspension

How do I lower my J-body?
The most common reason among most non-racers to lower their car is for the look. True performance enthusiasts want to improve on the handling of their cars, which will be greatly enhanced by lowering it.

By lowering the car, you eliminate the dreaded fender gap along with giving the car a much more aggressive look. The whole car sits lower to the ground giving it an air about it similar to a racecar. But isn't it ridiculous to give up a comfortable ride just for a car that looks nicer? That's a judgment call. There are ways around losing the ride comfort. Stock vehicles have softer springs and therefore require a large gap for the car to move up and down. When you lower the car, you will (or should) have stiffer springs since they will be shorter.

If you simply cut the springs you have, the problem of bottoming out and rubbing the tires on the wheel well will arise. Similarly, if you buy cheap springs, they are usually too soft and you will have the same problem. The stiffer springs will make the ride a little less comfortable, but you won't ruin your tires or the bottom of your car. You can make up for loss of comfort due to stiff springs by installing better shocks/struts. Keep in mind that you won't completely make up the comfort, and you will still have to be careful of bumps and dips since the car will be lower to the ground.

A stock automobile has a suspension designed to provide comfort and to deal with any road hazards that one may come across. However, stock automobiles are farther from the ground to allow room for the suspension and therefore loose some points in the handling department with a high center of gravity. By lowering a car, you place the center of gravity much closer to ground and decrease air and wind resistance. The more important of those two is keeping the center of gravity low to the ground. This is important because it helps keep the car grounded through a turn. If the center of gravity is too high and centripetal force is too great, the car will flip or at least get tire skip. There are other things that could be done to further improve the suspension of a lowered vehicle. In a lowered car especially, it is a good idea to add strut tower and anti-roll/sway bars to stiffen the chassis (frame and body). This will help to eliminate body roll which, in a lowered car, may send the body of the car diving into the ground through a turn or at least rub the tires on the top of the wheel well.

First of all, no matter what you do to improve the suspension, if you lower your car, you will have to avoid going fast over large bumps such as speed bumps and railroad tracks. If you want to show off your masculinity by driving fast over bumps or up onto curbs or through rough terrain, get a truck! Second, lowering your car will change the angle that the wheels are positioned at. If this problem is not rectified, you will wear through tires twice as fast because the force of the car will not be evenly distributed across the tire. This problem can be solved with a proper wheel alignment, or for extreme drops with a camber kit, which are add-on components that allow the wheel to be positioned vertically. Third, you may run into problems with scraping if you are carrying a lot of weight (i.e. many passengers, etc.). This will just lower your car more because it puts more force on the springs causing them to compress. Whether or not your car scrapes depends entirely on how much extra weight you are carrying and how low the car was to begin with. Last but not least, the ride will probably not be as comfortable as it was when the car had stock suspension. This all depends on how much money and work you put into it.

Who makes lowering springs for the J-body?
Eibach is by far the most-installed brand of lowering spring on enthusiasts' J-body cars. However, there are an ever-increasing number of different spring choices available for third-gen cars:

Apex (1.6" drop)
Arospeed (2")
B&G Sport Springs (1.6")
Eibach Pro kit (1.4", popular choice, but watch for uneven front/rear drop on 2.2L models)
Eibach Sportline (1.7" front, 2.3" rear, popular choice, but watch for uneven front/rear drop on 2.2L models)
Dropzone (1.7")
Fastco (1.6")
GoldLine (1.75", nice firm ride, popular choice)
H&R Sport Springs (1.6" front, 1.4" rear)
Intrax (1.7")
Mantapart Sport Springs (1.5" or 2.0")
Progress (1.7" front, 1.5" rear)
Springtech (1.8")
Sprint (1.8" but settles lower, nice firm ride, popular choice)
Suspension Techniques (1.2", nice ride, small drop)

For second-gen cars:
Apex
Eibach pro-kit
Intrax
Springtech (1.6")
Suspension Techniques

What about coilovers?
For third gen J-body cars:

APC "Next Level"
AroSpeed
Dropzone
Ground Control (Best bang for the buck, get w/ Koni Red struts)
Held Motorsports ???
HP Racing
Mantapart
Number 1 ???
Racer Design (RDX)
RKSport Pro-street
Skunk2
Springtech "Blue Line"
Tsudo
Weapon-R Circuit Pro

Who makes upgraded struts/shocks/dampers for the J-body?
Struts and shocks come in many flavors. Check with your friends and other enthusiasts for stories and testimonials on these. They're almost as subjective as tires. As far as I know, there is no "standardized" testing done on damper units, so I can't say that one brand is better than another.

If you have a 3rd gen, the Bilstein strut inserts are of the highest quality. Mantapart makes a Bilstein spring/strut combo upgrade for the J-body cars, but sells them at about half the cost of the Bilstein-tagged ones. Tim at Mantapart claims much better performance than stock, and many members on the JBO will back him up. His struts are specially built and come paired with Eibach springs ready to install.

Gabriel VST’s are a popular choice as an OEM replacement. Some OEM replacement units will handle being lowered, but not extreme drops. (Extreme Drop by KYB is 1.5 inches) Check warranty information BEFORE lowering on an OEM replacement unit, as most warranties will not be honored if used on a lowered car.

Gabriel VST (OEM replacement, Gabriel says they are stiff, not bouncy)
Monroe (OEM replacement)
KYB Gr2 (OEM replacement)
Sachs/ Boge (OEM for VW, BMW, seeking more info)
Genertec custom Tokico (for lowered applications, but no longer available)
Mantapart Sport Struts (made for lowered applications)
Koni Special-D Red (rebound-adjustable; front strut inserts, direct fit rears)
Mantapart Bilstein (custom for J-body & lowered apps; w/lifetime warranty)

I installed lowering springs on my car. Now the ride is really harsh/bouncy. Why?
If you didn't change the struts along with the springs, you're going to notice why suspensions are all specially tuned at the factory. The stock struts are not meant to dampen the kind of shock they are now receiving due to the stiffer springs. They just can't handle the extra stresses, so they bottom out, don't rebound fast enough, and just under perform. You can remedy the situation by purchasing new struts.

What about air bags/hydraulic suspension?
There are several different options when it comes to air ride suspension. Most J owners choose strut bags for the front of the car, and air cylinders for the rear. While the ride comfort is far from stock, accumulators can help dampen the bounce (but let’s face it, most people consider air ride for the looks, rather than the comfort aspect!).

Complete bolt-in kits are available from Air Ride Technologies. Custom installations are available from many sources, including Underworld Customs. Several different manufacturers make parts for the J-body, including Air Lift, Firestone and Blowjax.

Hydraulic suspension is not recommended for a uni-body car. (Tube frame is a different issue altogether!) I am unaware of anyone with a hydraulic suspension on an otherwise stock Cavalier. ***Addition*** Look for steve brown in Baltimore, MD..he USED to have hydraulics, but took them off afterall the stress on the chassis***

What is a strut tower brace/bar?
Strut tower braces or bars are intended to eliminate strut tower deflection and increase chassis rigidity to reduce suspension distortion from acceleration and cornering. The brace also improves the chassis rigidity for better vehicle handling and helps maintain correct suspension geometry.

Strut tower braces are available for either the front or the rear of your J-body, and connect the two strut towers to each other, and sometimes also to the firewall or other parts of the car. The front bars are much more common, though they serve the same purpose. The length of the front and rear bars is different, so unfortunately they are not interchangeable.

Front strut tower braces come stock on the third gen convertible J-body cars, but not other models. GM must have decided that the convertible models were the only ones that would benefit from the strut tower bar, because of the lessened chassis rigidity and structural integrity that results when you chop the roof off of a car. However, they didn't take into consideration enthusiasts like you or me. Luckily, the stock strut tower bar will fit just fine on most of the J-body models, plus there are plenty of aftermarket bars available.

GM even makes several different models, which you can order from any local parts counter or online dealer.

Part #22604347 was used from 1995-2000 on the 2.4L convertibles. This is the "standard" strut bar, which has a bracket to mount to the firewall, but no cruise control (CC) bracket (for cars with either no CC or have the CC module mounted to the firewall instead). Companies like RK Sport, RSM Racing and Mantapart (just to name a few) all sell this same bar as a performance suspension upgrade.

Part #22642387 was used from 95-97 on the 2.2L convertibles with cruise control. This bar has a bracket to mount the passenger-strut mounted CC module on as well as a firewall bolt bracket. Will also fit any J-Body that has the CC module mounted on the Passenger Strut Mount.

Part #22642386 was used on the 1995 2.3L convertibles, with the CC module mounted on the passenger side strut tower. In theory, this should be the same as the 22642387 bar, but no one has compared them side-to-side to make certain. (Please feel free to do so and send us an update!)

Part #22604348 was used on the 96-98 2.2L convertibles, according to GM’s part computers. However, we’re not sure if it has the cruise control bracket or not. (If you know or can find out, please send us an update!)

Many aftermarket front strut braces also exist. One made by Freedom Design, is a polished forged aluminum bar, and costs about $100 (part #63102). Mantapart also has a front strut tower bar. RK Sport sells several designs as well, as does Next Level, Ractive, Vibrant, OBX, and APC.

Second gen Z24s came stock with a front strut tower brace. APC also makes a chrome front bar.

Rear strut tower braces are available from several companies, such as Mantapart, Next Level, RSM, Freedom Design,

What is a subframe brace?
A subframe brace fits between the two A-arms on the front suspension and ties the lower suspension together to eliminate lower A-arm flex during hard cornering. This gives a much more consistent feel and stability to the suspension under hard cornering. Subframe braces do hang low enough that clearance over road obstacles could be an issue, especially if your car is lowered.

Mantapart and Control F/X make subframe braces for the third gen J-body. Subframe braces are also easily custom made out of square steel or aluminum and a couple of bolts.

What is that "loose lumber" sound coming from my trunk?
Some 1996 and 1997 model year J-body cars had this sound. It came from a bad strut mount on the rear suspension. GM has issued a technical service bulletin on this issue. If your car is experiencing this problem, GM will replace those parts under warranty.

My car makes strange noises when I’m turning, what is it?
If it’s a creaking or popping sound when turning the wheels side to side, either while moving or stopped, it’s probably your front strut mounts or a spring reseating in its perch. The stock strut mounts are not known for their good quality or life expectancy, especially when the car’s geometry is altered by use of lowering springs or coilovers. Replacing them with aftermarket mounts, such as those from Monroe or Gabriel, will probably address the problem.

If you’re hearing a thump, thump, thump sound that increases with speed, or turns into a humming noise over 50 mph (80 km/h) then you may have a bad wheel bearing. They are usually around $70 each, and there doesn’t seem to be any quality problems with either GM parts or aftermarket.

Constant thump, thump, thump noises are sometimes attributed to bad CV joints. Diagnosing whether a CV joint is bad or not is a job best left to a professional. Just remember to always get a second opinion first!

What is a sway bar?
Anti-roll (or sway) bars improve lateral stability without stiffening normal suspension movement. Anti-roll bars minimize body roll, which stabilizes the tire contact patch for maximum traction. That's important because all of the weight and power of your vehicle is transmitted to the road over a mere handful of square inches called the tire contact patch. Most FWD street cars have moderate understeer (aka "PUSH"). The sway bars are designed to improve overall balance by the use of proportionately stiffer rear bars. The car will have a "neutral" feel, with a gentle push at its limits. The opposite of push or understeer is oversteer. Cars that exhibit this characteristic are said to be "loose" and are prone to spinning.

Compared to the upper strut tower bar, which is designed to increase structural rigidity, the rear sway bar is designed to prevent body roll from occuring in corners. This reduction of body roll prevents the transfer of weight to the outside edge of your car which can "throw" the rear end outward in a curve (a.k.a. "spinout").

The rear anti-sway bar attaches externally to your rear axle through four points. The bar sits directly underneath the rear axle, and mounts in two spots to the axle using polyurethane bushings and bolts on each of the mounts. The bar then curves 90 degrees on each side and curves towards the back of the car. The other two mounts attach to the rear spindle assembly near the rear brake drums with a special bracket included with the kit.

J-bodies do not come with a stock rear sway bar, but some models do come with a rear stabilizer bar. Aftermarket rear sway bars work with the stock rear stabilizer bar (you do not have to remove it).

Aftermarket front sway bars replace the OEM front sway bar. If you do not have a stock front sway bar you need to get the hardware kit off of a Cavalier/Sunfire that does have a stock front sway bar so the new front sway bar can be installed.

Anti-sway bars also exist for the front axle of the car. Some cars come with them stock; those with the FE1 suspension package comes with an 18mm front sway bar, and the FE2 package comes with a 22mm.

You must be careful when adding or changing these bars, because if the bar is too large in either the front or the rear, you will introduce either understeer or oversteer. The trick is to find a balance, or "neutral" handling condition, where the car neither "pulls" you inward through the turn nor "pushes" you outward through the turn. Oversteer (or "pulling") is mostly found on rear wheel drive cars, like the F-body. Understeer (or "pushing") is mostly found on front wheel drive cars, like the J-body.

Hellwig used to make a rear 19mm bar, which helped to create a more "neutral" handling when added, while keeping your stock front sway bar. The new Hellwig bar is 26mm. (25.4mm) RK Sport and JC Whitney sell the Hellwig bar.

ADDCO makes 25mm (25.4mm) rear anti-sway bars for the J-body.

Eibach makes a 22mm rear bar and a 25.4mm front bar, sold together as a package.

What is a tie-bar?
A tie bar stiffens the rear of the car by tying both sides of the lower suspension anti-sway bar attachment points together. This reduces geometry distortion while braking and cornering. It is an add-on piece to the Addco or Hellwig rear sway bar. Under hard cornering, without a tie bar, you could experience lifting of the inner rear wheel around corners. If it doesn't lift, it at least gets light. With a tie bar, you eliminate a lot of the flex in the sway bar, and it will be tighter and maintain ground contact.

Fitment on these bars is sometimes tight, especially clearing some aftermarket exhaust systems. The bar will usually fit but may touch the intermediate (or ‘over the axle’ pipe) on some custom installations, particularly on lowered cars.

What about camber kits?
Camber kits are useful if you plan to run in some Solo or Autocross events, to get more negative camber and obtain better suspension work in the corners. For everyday street use, a camber kit is not really necessary as the stock suspension is adjustable enough that a proper alignment can fix any camber problems, including those introduced after lowering a car.

Eibach, Intrax and Sprint make front camber correction kits. Ingalls makes front and rear camber corrections kits. RK Sport sells camber adjustment bolts as well.

What about new A-Arms?
RK Sport sells a tubular A-arm that replaces the stock flat sheet metal A-arms. They eliminate flexing of the arms themselves under power and cornering and decrease wheel hop.

The original RK Sport A-arms were recalled due to cracking welds.

Where can I get a roll bar/cage?
RK Sport carries a 4-point roll cage, and Jegs carries 4-point, 8-point, 10-point and 12-point cages.

Yea I got it now, thanks for all that info. I just have a lot of questions lol. Anyway Eazy, whenever you get the s/c, let me know how both are working out. I don't plan to race or auto-x or anything. Just every now and then plan to drag (legally), but mostly this car is just for fun and looks, not speed or handling. I just want it s/c and very low, so best bet is the SS Setup. (BTW I just posted some pictures in the P&M forum called Spring Pictures; so check em out and comment ) Thanks for everyones help to clear up this issue.

My car handled the turns very well with air I think.
Adjust the damping and its great for twisties.
Add some front and rear swaybars to the air and your good to go.


I am all that is man

OK, I seriously don't know which way to go now since I have heard good things from both setups. Maybe I should just stay stock...........nah lol

ok air ride tech and easy street both companies road race with there products i know for a fact that a friend of mine road races with air ride tech i found better handling from my air ride then i ever did with my coil overs
air ride is used everywhere now, from cars to trucks to motorcycles, allot of street rod guys use air ride better ride better handling
its your choice really not ours


can i haz bondo