Yea i know its been quite awile since the last time i posted. I have had to take about 18 months away to focus on some personal issues with work and money (imagine that) before i could jump back in the game once more.
However, in that time, ive been doing nothing but design and number crunching. So... lets get down to business.
What is the largest attemped dose of nitrous into an LD9... of any kind... 150? 200?
I only ask because i dont see it all that far out of the question to run multiple shots of nitrous in stages. By this i mean, running multiple sets solinoids and jets, all wired independently, armed independently, and activated by TPS switch.... for an easier image.... multiple kits at the same time.
Heres my theory...
A completely forged/ss LD9 from top to bottom is only limited by the crankshaft yes? I believe someone once turbocharged to over 400whp in the previous years. So for sake of arguement, we KNOW the crank can handel 500bhp. Properly balanced im confident it can handel more than that.
Given that one has made the proper preperations to the clutch, axels, and transmission, the driveline also should be able to handel 500bhp... perhaps more.
Now, the force that seems to love to break things is not so much horsepower, but torque.... static changes in torque to be exact. This, as well as wheel spin, would prevent anyone from just strait spraying 150 or 200hp worth of nitrous all in one shot. Lets be realistic, you can't go from 200bhp to 350 or 400bhp instantly and not expect things to break.
So what are the alternatives.... :
1. Progressive controller
2. "Staged" nitrous setups
I personaly, am not a big fan of things being controled by a computer. Thus, the "staged" setups are more appealing to me... especialy on a H-pattern transmission.
Is it not feasable then to set up say 3, 50 shots that can be trigged at any given time during a pass(street, track, or dyno), in any given gear, by the driver. Or 2, 100 shot setups. Spraying your first 100shot in the bottom of say 3rd gear, and then the second 100 shot say 1000rpms later. Or even more extreme... 3, 100shot kits. All set up on window switchs to activate in stages if armed to do so.
To me, it seems very possible to run upwards of 300hp worth of nitrous and fuel into these engines given that they are properly jetted, and setup as DPI only.
Other issues that may be of concern would be the intake manifold. I think that a stainless steel, ceramic coated log style manifold would be needed inorder to cope with the extremely large amount of cold stuff flowing into the engine. A crack or split would not be a good thing to have while spraying more power in nitrous than the engine makes on its own... if that makes any sence.
I don't know... im still trying to find that big red X that says, "NOT POSSIBLE", but i really dont see it laying around anywhere...
Thoughts???
PS - For the record, im not crazy... i just have an unconventional imagination
- Schall
Just do us a favor if you try it. Video.
Well, its like i said... ive been away for quite a while. I know that a handfull of people were running 100-150shots 12-18months ago, so im just trying to see if it evolved into anything more.
At this point, im just asking questions.
I forgot to add in my first post....
The most important thing to remember is to NOT go lean, and NOT detonate. Rather than pull a thousand degrees of timing, would it not be a better idea to inject a higher octane fuel in with the nitrous from seperate fuel cell... say, 110?
Heres my theory... a seperate open loop fuel system just for the nitrous that carries 110 octane fuel. The only thing it goes to are the nitrous solenoids. Imagine a fuel rail blank that is tapped to fit -AN fittings, that can run to each solenoid individualy. Pumping the fuel from say a 5 gallon fuel cell would be a simple 150lb/hr or so pump with a AFPR set at some where around 30psi. All wired and plummed independently from the rest of the car.
Doing this i can forsee one of two things...
1. The octane of the injected fuel is TOO high on the first shot and actully causes the engine to misfire and BOOM.
2. The higer octane fuel cause the computer to not pull timing... but actully advance it... giving an even greater gain.
On paper, both seem feasable, and both are mst deffinatly possible... i just dont know the odds that one or the other happens.... i hope it would be #2 :p
I've been out of the nitrous game for so long now, I don't know who runs what anymore.
All I do remember.... from a few years ago...
The fastest was Rick King running a progressive controller with a NX wet kit, 100hp shot thru a stock motor, 700+ passes to a 13.4 or so, on street tires. Stock auto trans, which barfed when run with slicks.
I was second... I ran an 85hp shot dry ZEX kit, stock motor, Autotrans Interceptor at 100% line pressure, Mickey Thompson drag slicks, to a 13.8 three times. Car was torched by vandals a few years ago now.
(now I'm slow
)
...j
Single wet fogger spraying 100, < Stage One
Direct Port spraying another 150 <Stage Two
Just a thought
Even with the 110 octane, that's a whole lot of spray. I think I'd pull some timing also.
Shoot a 150 shot outta the hole on some M/T slicks
RIP, your Drive Train
Lenko, John Lenko wrote:I've been out of the nitrous game for so long now, I don't know who runs what anymore.
All I do remember.... from a few years ago...
The fastest was Rick King running a progressive controller with a NX wet kit, 100hp shot thru a stock motor, 700+ passes to a 13.4 or so, on street tires. Stock auto trans, which barfed when run with slicks.
I was second... I ran an 85hp shot dry ZEX kit, stock motor, Autotrans Interceptor at 100% line pressure, Mickey Thompson drag slicks, to a 13.8 three times. Car was torched by vandals a few years ago now.
(now I'm slow )
...j
Wow, I guess you have been out of the game for awhile now. I ran my 13.3 on the 100 shot last March, lol. No slicks either.
JuicedEco wrote:Shoot a 150 shot outta the hole on some M/T slicks
RIP, your Drive Train
sweet... over rev it and blow it up :p
The idea is really to CONTROLABLY spray this... so the first shot(s) probably wont hit till 3rd gear. If not in 3rd, the second shot will be hit in forth, making it go by just as quickly as 3rd did... and so on.
So really 150 is already in no mans land then... well maybe ill try 2 75s at first and then maybe tack on a 100 after that... who knows, might not do anything at all
MRMEANR Racing wrote:JuicedEco wrote:Shoot a 150 shot outta the hole on some M/T slicks
RIP, your Drive Train
sweet... over rev it and blow it up :p
The idea is really to CONTROLABLY spray this... so the first shot(s) probably wont hit till 3rd gear. If not in 3rd, the second shot will be hit in forth, making it go by just as quickly as 3rd did... and so on.
So really 150 is already in no mans land then... well maybe ill try 2 75s at first and then maybe tack on a 100 after that... who knows, might not do anything at all
If you're not going to spray until 3rd gear don't waste your time.
If you want a huge shot and good times the only way to go is with a progressive controller. Multiple solenoids and kits and such is a huge waste of money. With a controller you can set it for a 200 shot that starts at 20%(40hp) to get good traction out of the hole and ramps up to 100% whenever you can get the traction. Adjust the shot size, the starting % and the slope of the increase to match your suspension/traction/engine limitations and call it a day.
2000 Z24
200 hp, 230 lb/ft on 75 shot
14.396@96 mph
217 hp, 275 lb/ft on 90 shot
No track times yet
I can see it happening yes. However I think your traction even with slicks will becom an issue. Progressive controller hitting in third gear starting at 75 quickly to 150 or so. And using a second stage just for first and or second that being a 50 or 75. (no need for a controller there). I would suggest two stages and one being computer controlled. why for puddling issues. You will have to have the progressive controler shot being a direct port. And your 50-75 shot being a single shark in the intake. And yes definitly would need a seperate fuel system.
This is the only way I personally see it working.
Check out my cardomain Team Altered
Thing realistcly for a second.... you can spend thousands more on a multiple stage set-up and run WORSE times than if you simply did a single stage direct port set-up with a programmable progressive controller. A few of the controller also have time-delayed secondary outputs if you wanted to run a second stage on top of it all.
Maybe spray a 100hp shot off the line started at 0% and faded in over 4 seconds. 1st and 2nd gear aren't more than 3 seconds long a piece. Use the auxilary output to start the second system at 4 seconds and that stage (additional 100hp shot) could come on midway through 3rd. Maybe put a 0% controller faded in over 2 seconds on that one to save the crankshaft.
You would have one hell of a spray system that way, good for 200hp in 3rd, 4th and 5th (assuming you were even in 3rd for 6 seconds) and without any too much of a problem with traction.
Cold, hard truth is computers are more accurate
Awesome motive and great ideas you've got, but the anti-technology mindset could be the death of a very expensive motor.
Cardomain|
Myspace
so what im getting is, with say 11:1 CR and built and balanced motor, head work the whole 9 yards, a 200 shot by a WOT switch all at once would be to much? on an auto also
The one, the only, ME.
One comment...
WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE 400m???
This car is for 2 things... and the 400 isnt one of them.
I would assume that a 200+hp nitrous set-up would be for racing. Be it 1/4 mile, street racing or autocross, that traction advantages of a progrssive controller are the same.
Cardomain|
Myspace
