Ok, so last night I drive home park my car and no troubles. This morning I go to start it and it starts but stalls instantly. I try again same thing. I realize none of the electronics inside the car work, except for like hazards and wipers.

I checked all my fuses and they are all fine. So I checked for power at the fuse box (with the key in the "ON" position) and here is what I have found:

12V: 10A TURN-BU, 10A ERLS, 10A PCM/IGN, 20A IGN, 20A F/P-INJ, 15A AIRBAG, 10A CLS/PCM, 30A RR DFOG, 20A PWR ACC, 20A STOP HAZ, 10A HTR, 10A HVAC, 25A WIPER,10A RADIO

No power: 15A L HDLP, 10A INT LAMP, 15A RHDLP, 10A CLUSTER, 20A EXT LAMP, 15A CIG, 10A INST LPS

My question is, what could possibly be stopping all these areas from receiving power - where should I look? Is it one wire branching off to all of these areas? (I doubt so). Anyways I'm going back out to trouleshoot, any discussion/help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys.

did you check both sides of the fuses? in run, at least the cluster and cig should be showing power, lamp fuses usually wont unless you are using them.... i'm sure you also checked the box in the engine compartment... use a dmm and check both sides of all the fuses to make sure 12v is flowing thru all the fuses in the engine compartment, otherwise, start looking for a burnt wire (shouldn't be the case as most everything is fused on the 3rd gens...)


Hellraiser and Lil Lightning

I'm starting to think that it is most definately a fried wire. I've check all the fuses themselves and they are intact. When I checked for power at the lights I tried with the key in "On" and then with the key in "ON" and the light switch on. Nothing. Do the 3rd gens have any other fuses, other than the ones on the side of the driverside dash and the one inside the engine compartment (with the fuel pump relay etc.)

I'm pretty much at a loss to where to start looking.

Thanks for your help.

those are the only 2 compartments.... the only other thing i can think of is a bad fusible link - its like a fuse but you have to cut it out of the wire to replace, big pita to find and fix. remote starter installed? there could be a bad connection down there as well to keep the accessories from powering on...

the only thing i can think of in terms of fried wires again is if it fried, the fuse should've gone as well.... unless there was a bad casing on the wire and it corroded to nothing....

its it the 97 like it says on your profile? i'll grab my book and if it stops raining ill tinker with both my 96 and 02 to see if i can get mine to mock what yours is doing.....


Hellraiser and Lil Lightning

looking at the book.....in the engine fuse block, 10A pcm fuse and that 10A cluster fuse inside are linked. with the phase 1's, a lot is controlled by the cluster. if its not getting juice, car wont run because the passlock is decoded by the cluster, and if its not "seeing" the cylinder because of a missing link (eg cluster not working) therefore car will start but not stay running. try swapping both the 10A fuses with new ones or known good ones. sometimes, it doesnt happen often, but sometimes a fuse can look good and barely be allowing the proper current pass. if you changed the cluster recently, ensure the connector is tight as well... i cant think of anything else at the moment......


Hellraiser and Lil Lightning

I do have a remote starter/alarm installed but that was installed months ago with no problem. I didn't check fuses by eye, I used a meter - but only just checking for continuity. I will check those - but I think I MIGHT have found the problem.

In the engine compartment, between the battery and the firewall there is this block with a bunch of wires going into it. It appears that a black wire has lost insulation and has corroded (it is only hanging on by 1 strand). I think that could definately be the problem - but I'm not sure how to fix it because the corrosion is literally right at the end going into the block. Can I open this block and run a new wire in it or something?

While I'm at it..if I take this apart, does anyone know if a tach signal runs through there? I wanna add a new tach, and if I'm going to have it apart now would be the best time.

By the way, I do have a 97 Sunfire like my profile says, sorry I forgot to mention. Thank you SOO much for the help HellRaiser - you've done a lot for me!

(I'll post pictures of the wire in a few minutes)

Ok guys so I confirmed that wire is the problem (I stuffed the area full of tinfoil, and opend my car door with the key in the ignition and the door chime cam back, the headlights and highbeams worked, and then the car started. Obviously tinfoil isnt my solution but it assured me 100% that that is the problem. I am just unsure about how to change this wire. Anyone have any knowledge/suggestions as how to change the wire/open that thing up? (Is it supposed 2 open up?)

well probably the best way if its too close to the connector, the pic , to me, is saying its right on top of it, you might be better off finding the wire on the other side of the connector, cut it off, cut back on the broken side to get away from that corrosion, find a wire of a suitable wire size, solder it to both ends and shrink wrap it and/or tape the hell out of it.

do not crimp them they will rot out again, solder is the best choice... if it has to be pulled apart, shouldnt ever unless you change the engine or something crazy, it can be then cut and respliced...

good luck, hopefully we got it.


Hellraiser and Lil Lightning

Well I fixed it before reading your post. I did not know if I could bypass this box because I don't know what it is/ what it does. So I cut the corroded wire cleaned it, and I managed to solder it to and end of a screw that fit into the hole on the little box. I heat shrank it then used some clear silicone to ensure nothing rots out. It works like a charm.
Started the car 1st shot, all lights and accessories work flawlessy. I did a stress test also by running everything at once and still did not have any trouble. Thanks so much for your help.

But just out of curiosity - do you know what that box is? I noticed the bottom part of it had clips holding the bottom to the middle, but even after taking them off I could not for the life of me get the thing to even budge.

in a recent posst, john lenko said that it was the convenience center. it is the predecessor to the BCM and controls thinks like chimes and turn signals, and as the ability to shut the engine off


"I did it because I wanted to see what it would look like. You should be greatful that I even told you that it would look good. If your to dumb to use photoshop and change the color of your own car then you don't need to see it changed. I'm not going to give my work away. I'll sell the pic to you though for $15."-Adam Kalin

^^JBO is about not being that guy

Which explains why, when the wire was corroded it wasn't getting any power to keep the engine running. AWESOME stuff guys, thanks!

no problem


Hellraiser and Lil Lightning

Please don't mis-quote me

That 'box' is in the engine bay on the driver's side... and it's just a connector for the two harnesses. There is nothing in it other than metal to pass the signals through to the engine bay harness. You could bypass it just fine, but repairing the wire would be the better thing to do. If you haven't had one apart, you wouldn't know how much of a pain it is to disassemble and repair it - best left to a GM dealer with the right tools.

Not to be confused with the "convenience centre"... which is a module under the dash on the inside of the car, on the passenger side by the A-pillar. That has fewer wires, but does lots of stuff (as sort of mentioned there...)

so I tried to repair the wire, and it worked for a little while but then for some reason the connection inside must have fallen off or something. I tried a few more times to fix it, and nothing works, so I simply decided to bypass it.

However, during the time of this problem I ran into another which I thought was related, and it only happened once, but now it occurs all the time. If i Start my car it will run and everything works no problem, but if I turn the car off, and then try to start again I don't get any turning over or anything. Not even a click noise. Its as if nothing happens. If I disconnect the battery for a split second, then she starts right up again. Also, if I start her up and park it somewhere, and come back a few hours later she starts fine, its only when I try to restart it within a time period after having just ran the car. Anyone have any ideas?