Let's get a little botched introduction out of the way first. Feel free to move on to the next paragraph if you don't care. I'm a seventeen-year-old kid from the suburbs of New Jersey and I am now the proud owner of a 2001 Cavalier sedan. I like learning how things work and I have a passion for both electronic music and audio recording. I've dabbled a bit with soldering and basic electronics, but I'll admit in a second that I'm still a newbie with it. From my lurking I'm pretty impressed with the community 'round these parts and I would love to help be a part of that and contribute in any way possible.
Now to the real info: I would really appreciate any advice/constructive criticism/pointers/tips about replacing the audio system on my car. I've never worked with any sort of car audio system before, but I'm excited to learn more about the subject. I plan on installing all of these parts on my own (because it's no fun if you have someone else do it for you) and I just would like some feedback on my purchase to make sure I'm making a sound (
ha I'm so punny!) investment. I'm just interested in a natural-sounding music experience from my car because the current system isn't really doing it for me. It's overly noisy and IMO doesn't sound clean at all. I plan on ordering from Crutchfield because they have that handy-dandy "this fits and this doesn't" thing on their website and I've heard good things about their customer service. Here is the list of parts I have selected at this point:
Head unit:
Kenwood KDC-MP345U
The special wiring harness because I feel like I would want the chimes:
GM Factory Integration Adapter
Door speakers:
Pioneer TS-G4643R
Rear deck speakers:
Kicker 07DS600
Any thoughts on these parts/pointing out of glaring mistakes/scolding for forgetting to read something in the stickies would be greatly appreciated. I also would not at all mind making a how-to installation tutorial complete with pictures when I do end up installing the goodies.
honestley i wouldent order from crutchfield there way overpriced if i were you i would get 6.5 inch speakers in the front and im not a big fan of pioneer and kicker. i perfer infinity alpine and polk and if i were you i would think of adding a sub because it can really make a HUGE difference if you get the right one and tune it right
Yeah, the consensus is that Crutchfield charges a premium. I heard onlinecarstereo was good, and I'll do some shopping there, but the head unit I picked out isn't much cheaper there and you get free mounting equipment at Crutchfield. Should I ditch Crutchfield for sure though?
I'm looking at some of the brands you recommended, but I feel as though they are out of my budget. I like Pioneer's DJ stuff, so maybe (just maybe) their car audio stuff will be good too.
I think a sub is going to be way down the road for me. I'm strapped for cash as it is. I will look into a sub in the future, though. I'll just have to settle for boosting the lows on my head unit's EQ.
Now here is my slew of questions, before giving any advice:
What is your budget?
What are you looking to do: Drop in replacement sized speakers and a new head unit and call it good enough, or spend the time and money into building a good all around soundstage?
I know you are only 17, probably don't have a ton of cash to throw in, but with the right budget, right guidance and making educated decisions, you could end up with great gear as a first timer! Add in your eagerness to learn about all this and searching and reading on how to really tune things right, you could even do a good install and tune.
However, I don't feel right sending you in any direction without knowing your budget and ultimate goals. I won't throw brands at you like a novice, I won't FORCE the "right" way on you at this point, just feeling out what YOU want before I say a word.
So to recap:
BUDGET?
Amount of work you want to do/learn to do?
Willingness to research the right way to tune and install nice things?
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
"You really need to staple your face shut"-THE Joey Baggs.
I'd say my target budget is less than $300. My absolute max is around $350. I'd like to spend as little money as possible, though. I pay for my own insurance.
I feel like I wouldn't mind doing some work to achieve a good soundstage or acoustic setting, but I think I would want to keep my first build relatively simple. I think that my ultimate goal is to just have something that sounds good, even though that's a really boring ultimate goal for an audio system. What I mean is that I'll probably be driving this car for a while and I want to make it that much more pleasant to drive. D'you know what I mean? I'm not afraid to get hands-on, but I am afraid of screwing up. I find that I'm a little more apprehensive if I don't have a guide or something to consult if I'm unsure about something.
I really appreciate your input and help. The reason I came here is for said guidance and I have nothing but positive impressions about the forums here.
The Kenwood deck is a nice player. I have one in my Vibe and it does everything it is asked without all the fancy gadgets. Perfect deck for someone that would like to keep things simple. Plus it works well with the Ipod hook-up. I have only heard one pair of 4x6's and they were Kickers, so can't judge on those but what I can say is Pioneer coaxials are ver good budget friendly speaker that sounds great just don't pump alot of bass through them. The Kicker's are decent. But I can't make the decisions for you or anyone else for that matter. What I suggest you do is go to a local car audio store and try to listen to every brand of speaker you can. And I agree with 03cav83 ditch the 4x6's, there not meant to be loud.
1996 Sunfire, 2.2L, 18" Equus/General Exclaim UHP
Alpine CDE-9845
Definitely try to go listen to some stuff. If 300-350 is ur budget, seriously consider the fact that the head unit is the source for everything and most of the budget should go there for now. Drop in coaxials aren't going to stay in forever from the sound of it, but if u can avoid upgrading the hu in the future, even better. I would consider 150-200 on a decent alpine or pioneer unit(didn't check ur links so dunno what kenwood u showed) with 3 sets of preouts and whatever features u need. Shouldn't be hard to find. Buying an hu on cruthfield is nice because hu prices don't varry much and they give u all the install gear free. Speakers. Well better can be had cheaper elsewhere. Budget 80-100 for some decent 6.5s and baffle adapters. The rest can go to some cheap rears. I even think there are some 6.5" rainbows I can get for around 100. U want to pay cllose attention to ffronts first, that's where u are
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
"You really need to staple your face shut"-THE Joey Baggs.
haha yoo jlaudiocavalier ill buy those rainbows
03cav83 wrote:honestley i wouldent order from crutchfield there way overpriced if i were you i would get 6.5 inch speakers in the front and im not a big fan of pioneer and kicker. i perfer infinity alpine and polk and if i were you i would think of adding a sub because it can really make a HUGE difference if you get the right one and tune it right
But you also get amazing customer service with Crutchfield. Ive dealt with them several times and I dont regret and minute of it. You get what you pay for.
JLAudioCavalier wrote:seriously consider the fact that the head unit is the source for everything and most of the budget should go there for now. Drop in coaxials aren't going to stay in forever from the sound of it, but if u can avoid upgrading the hu in the future, even better.
That's good advice. Dumb question though: what do you mean by 'drop in coaxials?' Like, coaxial cable...? Could you elaborate a little more?
JLAudioCavalier wrote:I would consider 150-200 on a decent alpine or pioneer unit(didn't check ur links so dunno what kenwood u showed) with 3 sets of preouts and whatever features u need. Shouldn't be hard to find.
I am unable to display Alpine or Pioneer recievers (or too many other brands, for that matter) on Crutchfield because the website is trying to tell me that they won't fit in my car. That doesn't make sense though. Aren't all units the same width and height as long as the DIN number is the same? If so, I'll just buy a head unit from another site and use a generic installation adapter to fit it in my car.
JLAudioCavalier wrote: Speakers. Well better can be had cheaper elsewhere. Budget 80-100 for some decent 6.5s and baffle adapters. The rest can go to some cheap rears. I even think there are some 6.5" rainbows I can get for around 100. U want to pay cllose attention to ffronts first, that's where u are
I'm looking at some 6.5" speakers, but the problem I run into is that they their RMS range is usually 100W or more while all of the head units I've looked at only output less than 30W or so. I don't think I really want to invest in an external amplifier at this point. Can I still use two components with conflicting RMS ranges together or would that cause conflicts? I would think that as long as the RMS range of the speakers is higher than that of the head unit I'd be okay, just not the other way around.
Also, I can't seem to find any sort of documentation explaining baffle adapters. It looks like they just allow for larger speakers to fit into the smaller mount on my door, no?
The good thing is, speakers will work off less power as long as you are responsible with the volume knob. So you can get nice fancy ones that will handle more power, then when you do get an amp, you don't need to buy new speakers again. As for your last question on power, being that having too little power is better than too much, that's also wrong. HAVING too much power means you can tune it to put out exactly the amount you need, and the amp will be running cooler, easier, and just relaxing whereas running an amp that barely puts that power out will be running at full tilt the whole time.
As for your question on coaxials... Coaxial is the type of speaker that does not have an external crossover and separate tweeters. They are all one unit that you just plug the speaker wire into. It's basically the opposite of components.
Answering the question about head units: Just click the button to shut filtering off. That way you can look at all the units(depth is the issue, but the install kits have spacers, or you can cut the plastic dash piece out behind the head unit and it has plenty of room), and the specific vehicle will be saved, although filter turned off, so when you get your free install goodies from them, you still get the right ones.
Aftermarket baffles are commonly used to either space out a deep speaker, adapt a different size speaker(be it larger or smaller), to the mounting point, or both. In this case of J's having shallowish door, I suggest a 3/4" thick baffle to adapt from 4X6 to 6.5" which I can get you into for $19 shipped.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
"You really need to staple your face shut"-THE Joey Baggs.
yes those would work fine together... do I feel that other speakers in that price range are going to be a better option? Yes.....
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
"You really need to staple your face shut"-THE Joey Baggs.
Hmm... the only thing I'm not liking about that Alpine you linked is it doesn't have a sub pre-out. It has 4 for the doors/rear, but not an independent one for the subs. But it's all hypothetical right now
I wanna give this man props for listening and taking advice
JLAudioCavalier wrote:yes those would work fine together... do I feel that other speakers in that price range are going to be a better option? Yes.....
I would appreciate any advice on choosing speakers. So far the only specs I've been looking at is impediance, power range, and frequency response. Any recommendations?
Sparky15_00 (Corsica Dude) wrote:Hmm... the only thing I'm not liking about that Alpine you linked is it doesn't have a sub pre-out. It has 4 for the doors/rear, but not an independent one for the subs. But it's all hypothetical right now
Yeah, it's a lot cheaper to buy hypothetical equipment.
It looks like the
Kenwood KDC-HD545U has a dedicated output for a sub. The website says it has six RCA jacks on the back of the reciever. Stupid question: Are RCA jacks only used to connect amps or or speakers, too? Because I've never seen RCA jacks used to power speakers except in crappy budget bookshelf speaker systems. And if RCA jacks aren't used to connect the speaker and head unit, what is?
Sparky15_00 (Corsica Dude) wrote:
I wanna give this man props for listening and taking advice
Heh, has the Internet gotten that bad that I'm getting props for listening to people that I'm coming to for help?
Alright, you need a bit more reading and advice, the cool thing is, it seems like you actually take it and pay attention like Sparky said! Not going to dog on you just for not knowing things, because you are trying to learn!
The RCA jacks go to the pre-amp outputs on the deck. They are just that, PRE-AMPLIFIER. They are only there to go from the head unit to an amp. They send the audio signal to the amps. Then you simply run speaker wire from the amp to the speaker or sub. RCA cables never go directly from the head unit to a speaker in your car. If the Kenwood deck says it has 6 RCA jacks, that means 3 full sets of pre-outs. This basically means you have front, rear, and sub outputs. A head unit with a dedicated sub output usually gives you a little control over your sub at the head unit such as being able to disable it, fade to it, etc. Not NEEDED, you can easily rub a sub off the rear channel outputs, it's just nice to have the extra little bit of control. It's more a luxury to me, because the amp you chose will be doing most of the tuning and control, having the dedicated sub channel isn't needed. Sort of like a car with power mirrors or heated seats. Those to me can EASILY be driven without, but man they are nice once you use em lol.
As for speaker recommendations, I am fairly sure that Rainbow has a set of coaxials, at around $100-120, in 6.5" that are slim enough for a Cavalier door and sound absolutely stunning off moderate power. Just let me know how serious you are, I HATE calling my dealer for price quotes 20 times a week just to place an order for a single speaker set lol.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
"You really need to staple your face shut"-THE Joey Baggs.
Thank you for the clarification. It just didn't make sense to me that RCA jacks could power speakers.
I think that $100-120 is a little more than I would like to spend, but if there is a significant increase in sound quality I would consider it. I made a stop at my local Best Buy (I hate Best Buy but they're the only place around here that had demo-able car speakers) and from the incredible selection (four 6.5" speakers on a wall) I found that the
Pioneer TS-G1643R sounded the cleanest. Now, keep in mind that I've never heard a true high-end car audio system to compare it to and that it was simply the best in store. Also, all that I could listen to was a Best Buy demo CD of Christmas music. The speakers are only about $40 online. Is spending two to three times as much on the speakers you discussed above a good idea? I know this is subjective, but how much of a difference is there?
i have those exact front speakers in right now with a little amp to em an they sound pretty damn good for being liitle 4x6's.
if you need help with install and wiring, feel free to give me a shout, I am right outside hillsborough/ bridgewater area. I have wired and rewired my j quite a few times. def spend the money on a good head unit, make sure it has the sub output, makes life so much easier.
Trial wrote:Is spending two to three times as much on the speakers you discussed above a good idea? I know this is subjective, but how much of a difference is there?
That depends who you're asking. As a rule, paying a little extra will get you a large increase in quality, up until a certain point where that flips and you end up paying ludicrous amounts of money for marginal gains.
If you're serious about this. Think about increasing your budget on speakers to 200-300. Saving money is much better than buying quickly.
bradsk88 wrote:Trial wrote:Is spending two to three times as much on the speakers you discussed above a good idea? I know this is subjective, but how much of a difference is there?
That depends who you're asking. As a rule, paying a little extra will get you a large increase in quality, up until a certain point where that flips and you end up paying ludicrous amounts of money for marginal gains.
If you're serious about this. Think about increasing your budget on speakers to 200-300. Saving money is much better than buying quickly.
Looks like Brad answered you for me lol.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
"You really need to staple your face shut"-THE Joey Baggs.
some good advice given. something to consider is that 95% of the music you hear will be coming from your front speakers. so spending a little extra for that IMO is well worth the money. the rainbows when properly installed will blow the pioneers out of the water, and you should be able to use them for a while down the line before you'd ever need to replace them.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
bradsk88 wrote:Trial wrote:Is spending two to three times as much on the speakers you discussed above a good idea? I know this is subjective, but how much of a difference is there?
That depends who you're asking. As a rule, paying a little extra will get you a large increase in quality, up until a certain point where that flips and you end up paying ludicrous amounts of money for marginal gains.
If you're serious about this. Think about increasing your budget on speakers to 200-300. Saving money is much better than buying quickly.
I want this done right. JL, would you kindly get a price quote on the Rainbows?
I sure can. Once I talk to my dealer about the price range and get the latest model number of the speakers in your price range, I will shoot you a link to info and pics too.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
"You really need to staple your face shut"-THE Joey Baggs.
I HATE the way Rainbow's site is set up, you can't directly link because it's all flash slides and @!#$...
Go to WWW.Rainbow-audio.de (they're German). Click on the little british flag at the bottom then click products. Then click Deamline at the top. Then click KX. Then click the KX165 to the left of the page. That will give you specs and a pic. I am still working on getting the exact price for you. The dealer I go through is actually right in NJ, but Rainbows ordered in are usually just drop shipped to you, so either from a warehouse or straight from Germany.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
"You really need to staple your face shut"-THE Joey Baggs.
