I just wanted to make sure I've read all these water/methanol/alcohol injection threads properly.

From what I've gathered: water and alcohol will cool the charger and make the engine act like a higher octane gas is being used.
This will not create power, but rather maintain it. The charger will not heat soak as easily, if at all, and there will be no/much less KR, so power isn't lost through the power band.

Methanol: I've read that methanol does all that water and alcohol do, but it actually CREATES power!? How does this work?

Also: Windshield washer fluid has alcohol or menthanol?

Thanks

methanol releases more energy during combustion in comparison to ethanol, propanol, butanol, etc. i would assume that because gasoline contains a moderate amount of ethanol, that the addition of methanol will actually increase the power output, because of the greater amount of energy released per equivalent (or molar, for the chemistry people out there) amount of gasoline/ethanol

also, windshield washer fluid contains methanol. (methanol is an alcohol. the alcohol you drink is ethanol, some high power engines burn alcohol (usually referring to methanol)

Remember that gasline anti-freezes are made of ethanol, methanol or isopropyl alcohol and they are barely combustible when they "soak up" the water.
Adding a lot on methanol to your gaswill also be bad for your engine as you reach a point of diminishinig returns and it will eventually cause problems. Just like trying to run your regular engine on E85, bad news.

I really don't know how injecting differs from dumping a buhcn in your tank.

If you want to create power, why don't you just use N20 and water injectors on your intercooler?

windsheild washer fluid can contain up to 85% meth....get the stuff that is -20 rated, thats what has the highest meth % in it....from my takes i use the meth to keep the charger cool....never to 'up the octane' or so to speak. but in theory you can run lower octane when using methanol and it will be like your running the same you used to be....if that makes any sense





2000 Camaro V6.
| SLP Loudmouth | CAI Intake | HID's |

i use stuff ment for -45 degree and it works wonders



The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno

Meth injection is nice for the M45, but until you are at the edge of the efficiency on your M62 you won't see many returns, and would see better gains with working on your heat exchanger/aftercooler set-up. From everything I read the Cobalt guys are only using this when they get down to about a 25.-2.6 pulley to keep the SC cool to prevent rotor contact.

listening


FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Wade Jarvis wrote:listening

14.425 @ 97.833 mph stock + GMPP s/c on drag radials.

yea meth is not realy needed on the M62 if your intercoller is running well.

but if meth is used it will give more power and with water inj it WILL lower intake temps so why not.

you can also run more timing so if the gains dont show up right away they will after running the meth inj with a new spark tune/map.!


farmerz24

Alcohol injection will work and give you better gains with an intercooler (heat exchanger) or not... M62 guys would benifit just as much as we would with the M45... look at all the turbo only guys with intercoolers still spraying methonal... i know personaly on our 87 GNX even with a huge racing intercooler we can only run about 26psi of boost and with alcohol we can get away with running 30psi .. so yes even with a heat exchanger your still going to benifit from aky injection



The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno

Water injection is used to prevent detonation by extracting heat from the combustion chamber through queching the valves/pistons/cylinders and through evaporation. It is true that it also reduces the charge temp but the space taken up by the water cancels this out so you will not gain anything.

To try to explain it simply .... gas has a LHV (latent heat of vaporization) rating of between 300-500 degrees. Methonal has a rating around 1100, and water has a rating of approx 2300 degrees. Octane is how hard it is to auto ignite something. Gas has an octane rating of 87-94, methonal has an octane rating of 104, and water has in infinite octane rating.

Turbo guys run around a 12.1 afr to reduce detonation using the cooling effect of the gas .... this is a 13% increase in fuel. If you replace the 13% extra fuel with water/meth you will have better detonation suppression. A 50/50 mix of water and meth has an approximate LHV rating of about 1600 degrees, 3-5 times that of gas. It also has an effective octane rating of 104-112 depending on the mixture. What you are able to effectivly do is run leaner gas mixtures, more timing and suppress detonation. EGT's will be lower and engine temps will also be lower. Another side effect is that the water essentially steam cleans the engine preventing carbon build ups that can create hot spots.

Methonal has less energy then gasoline buy about 15-20%, but it has more then water ..... water doesn't burn so it can not release any energy through the combustion process. The water converting to steam is what removes the heat. Less heat means less detonation. How much water/meth you use is dependant on your set up and the volume you are spraying. For crude setups 50/50 works well. Wiper fluid is the ideal sorce for this but different fuild use different percentages to is important to get the one with the coldest rating. The meth is used to stop the water from freezing. Also before you buy it, shake it .... if you see foam/bubbles don't buy it. Some wiper fluid includes detergents (soap) that you don't want in your system.

Nickobub wrote:methanol releases more energy during combustion in comparison to ethanol, propanol, butanol, etc. i would assume that because gasoline contains a moderate amount of ethanol, that the addition of methanol will actually increase the power output, because of the greater amount of energy released per equivalent (or molar, for the chemistry people out there) amount of gasoline/ethanol

actually...pay no attention to this, i was completely wrong. it's actually just the opposite...methanol has lower energy release upon combustion than similar alcohols. the increase in power comes not from increased energy released with combustion, but rather as LIVID said, the effective increase in "octane" rating. this allows for an engine to operate at a higher compression or boost level with less chance of detonation.

Thanks for your help so far.

You can buy 100% methanol and spray just that? What kind of pricetag goes with this?

How much of a difference does this make, on average. I'm looking for dyno or speed data. Stock internals only go so far, so I'm trying to choose my modifications wisely.

Can you guys suggest a good/affordable kit.

I'm thinking the Devilsown kit and adding my own reservoir to make it work.
Any experience with this?

Admiral Jedi wrote:Thanks for your help so far.

You can buy 100% methanol and spray just that? What kind of pricetag goes with this?

How much of a difference does this make, on average. I'm looking for dyno or speed data. Stock internals only go so far, so I'm trying to choose my modifications wisely.

Can you guys suggest a good/affordable kit.

I'm thinking the Devilsown kit and adding my own reservoir to make it work.
Any experience with this?

thumbs up to the devils own kit. Us VW guys run the @!#$ out of it. One guy used his 100 race tune on 93gas + water meth with no timing pull.



The Mods
Mostly the bolt-ons: Greddy Type 31 Fmic, Chipped (Stock, 93 octane, Testpipe),
3" TurboBack/Catless, CAI, N75-J, 4bar FPR, Cranked Wastegate, Colder Plugs, 4.7V Diode
Mod, Forge 007 Diverter Valve (Yellow 20lb spring), N249 Bypass:
250whp/300ftlbs Tq & Stock clutch dying

But more impressive is my Replacement List:
<55K Miles: 4-OxS, 2-Thr. Body, 3-MAFs, 1- MAPs, 4-Coil Packs, 2-Sets Of Plugs,
1-Water Pump, 15-Visits to the stealership, 80-CELS/EPC/Combinations, 1- APR
Chip ReBurn, 2-Heated Seat Switches, 1-Pass Seat Cover, 1-Suction Pump, 15'-Vac Line.
Finally CEL Free and love'in my 1.8t. Yea i drive a VW

Do you guys have a specific brand you recommend? One without soaps and such.