hey whats is everyone running for psi with stock intearnals and how long have you been running it.
OR what are some mods that you have done to crank it up just a lil more?
9psi, 20,000+ miles with no problems at all. 02 ecotec with 20g hahn stage II.
15psi for about 8000 miles. Only extra touch is arp head studs. Custom built turbo kit using a 57 trim t3/t4. Problems = NONE. Only getting enough fuel in there. Ended up with 48# injectors and an 8:1 tuning disc in my FMU.
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4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!
K i think i should add this before somebody comes here and screem at you..
Its not about how much PSI you are running, its how much horsepower you are making.
You can put in a small turbo and push 15 PSI and it will make like 250 horsepower or you can use a big T3/T4 83 trim turbo and push 8 PSI and you can make about 300HP.
Its about how much horsepower the engine can handle not how much PSI it can handle...
With a good tune, ecotecs can handle about 300 horses and maybe little more with a GOOD tune...
Skunk, how much HP are you making at 15 PSI?
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well then i'm new at this who turbo thing so i'm sorry but how much horsepower can i run with a none echo.its a 00 stock z2.4
**whole ....and its a t3/t4 60trim
stock internals, 8,000 PSI
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Well, Skunk is like around 350 whp with stock internals and a GOOD TUNE on 15 PSI's...
As long as you have a GOOD TUNE, the stock internal should hold up little pass 300 whp...
But just to be safe, swap out the pistons and rods and you can boost pass 350 whp with a good tune without having to worry...
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IDK about max boost on a 2.4, my 96 didn't like more than 10psi with the gm s/c on it, I know there are guys that have got more than that. For some reason my Z just didn't like to be pushed. My eco loves it though.
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4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!
Skunk v.2K4 wrote:IDK about max boost on a 2.4, my 96 didn't like more than 10psi with the gm s/c on it, I know there are guys that have got more than that. For some reason my Z just didn't like to be pushed. My eco loves it though.
S/C and Turbo are two completely different monsters. Pushing the 2.4 S/C that far creates a LOT of heat. Depending on the turbo you choose, 10psi may just start getting you into the efficiency range where the air is much cooler.
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From what ive read the LN2 bottom end as well as the L61 bottom end are both good to around 250hp give or take... As for weak spots, I guess the LN2 is known to have piston ring problems and i believe its the connecting rods in the L61. But this all depends on how well your vehicle is tuned, how well its been taken care of or beat on, etc...
As far as the valve train/head goes im not 100% sure what there "estimated limit" would be...
im running a stock bottom end with a heavily modified head on my 2200/LN2 and its running fine. but only been a week and im still working out the kinks...
forgot to add - not sure about the LD9...
QBE (The Boosted One) wrote:Lefix wrote:Well, Skunk is like around 350 whp with stock internals and a GOOD TUNE on 15 PSI's...
As long as you have a GOOD TUNE, the stock internal should hold up little pass 300 whp...
But just to be safe, swap out the pistons and rods and you can boost pass 350 whp with a good tune without having to worry...
I'd put $1000 down that skunk aint no where near 350 whp on 15 psi. Not to mention the Ecotec Valve springs cant handle much more then 14 psi before they start opening under boost and youre losing power. Secondly he has a stock motor, that 15 psi is a ticking time bomb. I am not trying to be a dick, but am trying to be realistic. With NO supporting mods and just 15 psi on a stock head/bottom end he's probly around 270-280whp thats a guess.
I have to agree with QBE as far as the 350 whp being a stretch. The sunfire was only making about 400 whp on 27 psi with a super 20G. 350 engine horsepower may be what he meant, maybe.
But the ecotec valve springs can take more than 14 psi. In my experience, Ryne Hoover ran 15 psi on the stock motor with no issues and even raced the hell out of it, our sunfire ran 20-21 PSI before a problem and same with our 2.4 Eco Solstice.
As for the main question of the post, hitting 15 psi is possible, but it will eventually give way. The safest, highest boost a stock motor could take is no more than 11-12 psi.
Street-Legal 2003 Sunfire 10.58 @ 139 MPH
Jazer ~ *[AzulKav wrote:*~]From what ive read the LN2 bottom end as well as the L61 bottom end are both good to around 250hp give or take... As for weak spots, I guess the LN2 is known to have piston ring problems and i believe its the connecting rods in the L61. But this all depends on how well your vehicle is tuned, how well its been taken care of or beat on, etc...
As far as the valve train/head goes im not 100% sure what there "estimated limit" would be...
im running a stock bottom end with a heavily modified head on my 2200/LN2 and its running fine. but only been a week and im still working out the kinks...
2002 Ecotec motor was good to 300 hp
the 2003-2005 could not handle as much due to GM changing the Ring land size. (then again on a good tuned motor it could possibly handle more)
the ld9 is the same in the area of 280 hp. I am sure Brian (speed racer) could shed some more light
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QBE (The Boosted One) wrote:Jazer ~ *[AzulKav wrote:*~]From what ive read the LN2 bottom end as well as the L61 bottom end are both good to around 250hp give or take... As for weak spots, I guess the LN2 is known to have piston ring problems and i believe its the connecting rods in the L61. But this all depends on how well your vehicle is tuned, how well its been taken care of or beat on, etc...
As far as the valve train/head goes im not 100% sure what there "estimated limit" would be...
im running a stock bottom end with a heavily modified head on my 2200/LN2 and its running fine. but only been a week and im still working out the kinks...
2002 Ecotec motor was good to 300 hp
the 2003-2005 could not handle as much due to GM changing the Ring land size. (then again on a good tuned motor it could possibly handle more)
the ld9 is the same in the area of 280 hp. I am sure Brian (speed racer) could shed some more light
QBE, thanks for the correction. I tend to follow information on the LN2 way more than the OHC engines.
OHV love lol
Quote:
S/C and Turbo are two completely different monsters. Pushing the 2.4 S/C that far creates a LOT of heat. Depending on the turbo you choose, 10psi may just start getting you into the efficiency range where the air is much cooler.
I know that's why I specified that it was the s/c not turbo.
Quote:
I'd put $1000 down that skunk aint no where near 350 whp on 15 psi.
Going to dyno some time this month. I will have the real numbers and not estimates as to what I've got for power. It is deffinitely over 300, but I'm not exactly sure by how much. I have raced cars that have dynoed out to more than 300whp, one being my buddies 1st gen eclipse. I beat him off the line and once I shifted into 3rd just started pulling away real nice. Doubt me if you will, that's what you guys do. If it isn't your car then it's not possible. I'm not saying it will go long term, I just wanted to push to see how much it could handle and for how long.
Bumped to 15psi on May 12th, and still going strong on September 10th. There will be a fully built engine going in this winter. The car goes into hibernation in November and doesn't see the road again until March so I've got plenty of time. Maybe it'll make it to November maybe it won't, according to you guys "The Boosted J-Body Experts" it shouldn't have lasted this long. So we shall see.
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4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!
Im planning on getting a set of Forged Eagle Rods, a stock bore cometic headgasket with .040" thick, and ARP Head studs..
I've already bought a set of brand new Forged Diamond Racing Pistons with a 8.9:1 compression and stock bore..
How much power do you think my eco will be able to take with those internals? is 350+whp possible?
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Skunk v.2K4 wrote:
Going to dyno some time this month. I will have the real numbers and not estimates as to what I've got for power. It is deffinitely over 300, but I'm not exactly sure by how much. I have raced cars that have dynoed out to more than 300whp, one being my buddies 1st gen eclipse. I beat him off the line and once I shifted into 3rd just started pulling away real nice. Doubt me if you will, that's what you guys do. If it isn't your car then it's not possible. I'm not saying it will go long term, I just wanted to push to see how much it could handle and for how long.
Bumped to 15psi on May 12th, and still going strong on September 10th. There will be a fully built engine going in this winter. The car goes into hibernation in November and doesn't see the road again until March so I've got plenty of time. Maybe it'll make it to November maybe it won't, according to you guys "The Boosted J-Body Experts" it shouldn't have lasted this long. So we shall see.
An estimate is just an estimate. All anyone has to go off of is what every other Eco turbo powered car has done at roughly the same power level. There is almost always exceptions and maybe your car is an exception. But I think it's pretty unfair of you to 'dis' on people when you don't even have facts, just predictions. On the other hand, all of us do have facts and if your car does make 350 whp at 15 PSI, then God damn you got a hot tamale right there and I congratulate you on a job well done
. And as far as your car not making it this far, I respond with
Adam_Hahn wrote: hitting 15 psi is possible, but it will eventually give way
and that's if you raced it every weekend like Ryne did. Good luck on your dyno experience and be sure to post the dyno slip and numbers in the top whp list in the racing forum.
Street-Legal 2003 Sunfire 10.58 @ 139 MPH
Will do on the post of the dyno sheets
I know it's gonna blow, I'm just tired of reading how 12+ isn't possible out of a stock eco. I know it is, I do it daily. I don't race it every weekend at the track, and want a baseline number before I put the new engine in so I can see the increase of all the $ I'm going to spend on parts. I know where I was at 6 psi and that's at 200whp and 205 tq. and that was with a cracked exhaust mani. I know, not impressive numbers by any standard. But it gave me my original boost baseline. I know the butt dyno can fool you, but when I've beaten cars that are equal in weight and have dyno sheets proving 330whp I'd say that I'd be at least close to that, but we will the the rest of that for time to tell. Should be this weekend or next.
Adam, you my friend have the numbers I only hope for. You're actually the push behind me wanting a little more. I'd like to take that top spot from you for most whp on an eco. Nothing more than a little friendly competion. I'm not trying to start a fight or say for one minute I can even get there or that I even have the experience to know what to do, but I'm gonna try like hell. Even if I don't make it there, oh well, I will ultimately end up with a cav that will have a ton of power, compared to stock and it will be mine. All work done by me.
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4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!
Interesting thread. You running 15 makes me feel better about running only 10 or 11psi...
2004 Cavalier
13.2@105........
Mods...
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Saab Turbo kit
2.5 exhaust, w/cutout
Spec Stage 2+ Clutch
Skunk v.2K4 wrote:Will do on the post of the dyno sheets
I know it's gonna blow, I'm just tired of reading how 12+ isn't possible out of a stock eco. I know it is, I do it daily. I don't race it every weekend at the track, and want a baseline number before I put the new engine in so I can see the increase of all the $ I'm going to spend on parts. I know where I was at 6 psi and that's at 200whp and 205 tq. and that was with a cracked exhaust mani. I know, not impressive numbers by any standard. But it gave me my original boost baseline. I know the butt dyno can fool you, but when I've beaten cars that are equal in weight and have dyno sheets proving 330whp I'd say that I'd be at least close to that, but we will the the rest of that for time to tell. Should be this weekend or next.
Adam, you my friend have the numbers I only hope for. You're actually the push behind me wanting a little more. I'd like to take that top spot from you for most whp on an eco. Nothing more than a little friendly competion. I'm not trying to start a fight or say for one minute I can even get there or that I even have the experience to know what to do, but I'm gonna try like hell. Even if I don't make it there, oh well, I will ultimately end up with a cav that will have a ton of power, compared to stock and it will be mine. All work done by me.
No one said 15 psi isn't possible on a stock ecotec. people just said doing 15 psi on a stock ecotec is pulling the pin on the grenade and holding it.
And by saying "Oh I beat cars with 300 whp so I have to have more" Is absolutely retarded, I should know, I used to do it, a lot. There are so many factors that play into a race.
Driver
Weather
Power to Weight Ratio
Gearing
I am sure I am missing a lot. I am extremely experienced with the ecotec motor and what it can and can't do. Maybe not as much as Adam or Ryne but I have been around the damned block a lot. I ran 12 psi on my stock 2002 Ecotec for damn near 2 years and I beat the ever living piss out of it.
My main point was that without supporting mods and boost alone it will take a lot of boost to make 350 whp. And the stock ecotec head is quite the bottle neck once going over 12 psi or so. So you're not going to gain as much hp per psi. It's like pushing a golf ball through s garden hose. Ever see the exhaust ports on an ecotec? Yeah a Ballpark Beef Frank is bigger......
Stock ecotec motors are awesome stock motors to boost 10 psi on or less they move like crazy. on 12 psi I was doing 260 whp w/ fully stock internals and a decent tune. I never dyno'd after the build with my turbo cams and 18 psi. (still stock head)
Enough ranting, good luck
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for the most part every motor is different. from when it comes out of factory to how its treated. its hard to have an answer when you ask what a motor will handle. as no one really knows. you may be running less than the next guy and still blow your motor up or vice versa. theres no defined answer on what motors can handle how much hp/how much boost... whether they be stock or built. What it comes down to is what is worth risking to you, and how far do you want to push it to find out...
just my .02
Quote:
And by saying "Oh I beat cars with 300 whp so I have to have more" Is absolutely retarded, I should know, I used to do it, a lot. There are so many factors that play into a race.
So what you've basically said here is that a 1st gen dsm is a considerable amount heavier than my Cav? Ok, I'll bite, whatever you know all right. Just ask, you'll tell us everything we need to know about the eco and it's "limits."
Quote:
No one said 15 psi isn't possible on a stock ecotec. people just said doing 15 psi on a stock ecotec is pulling the pin on the grenade and holding it.
A fantastic analogy. I'm just waiting for it to blow. Hasn't yet. That's why I share the fact that I am pushing 15psi on stock eco. I have beaten cars similar in weight and drivers close in skill that have dynoed out at over 300whp. It's an ESTIMATE at what I've got based upon what I've beaten and what has beaten me. I don't know everything about the eco, probably never will. But when people come out and say certain things just aren't possible, it's ridiculous. You just need a good amount of knowledge and some luck. Could I make more hp with less boost? Maybe. All I know is at 12psi she doesn't pull as good as at 15psi, that's just the butt dyno there, but I will have time to prove it soon.
Are you done now? Let me guess, you'll come out here again and spew some more about these numbers and those numbers, and in the end you'll TRY to dispute my credability a little more. Whatever trips you're trigger. Have fun with it. I know what I've got, not exactly sure on the hp, if I'm wrong and it's under 300 I will be the first to say it, but if I'm right, then what will you have to say?
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4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!
