This was my search for reference.

I have a LN2, and it gets me from A to B, and until now, it was fun. My 92 RS coup was SLOW, and this was a big increase in speed, handling, and well, style.


I'm looking for more, and as of now, i have weighed my options, and I have come to a cross roads. I can wait till next summer and build my engine with P&P (1mm Oversize valves too), Throttle body, Exhaust, Rocker arms, and a tune. OR I can run 6psi soon (I know, Not a lot, but i don't need a lot) with a turbo setup.

If I am to run turbo, I want to run with quality parts, and good stuff, I want reliability to some extent, and I know that wont be cheap.

If i was to get a setup, would using Ebay to get a manifold, and intercooler pipe set with intercooler be an ok Idea?

Also, What Compressor (t3/t4), BOV, And wastegate (if not internal) would be the best for 6psi on my LN2?

more than likely if you do use ebay to get the intercooler and the intercooling pipes i would expect the intercooling pipes to need modification. Half the people on ebay sell the products but have no clue about the car they are selling it for. Ex. Someone selling an ecotec turbo kit on ebay told me that the automatic and manual charge pipes that came with the turbo kit were interchangable when they are not. I dont think the guy was lieing to me, i believe the guy has never moded or owned a cavalier.

also i know there is one very reputable manifold seller on ebay. I'm not exactly sure of the user name but a lot of people on here have bought them without any troubles.

good luck on the build i'm in the same boat. My car was fun .. now its getting boring.. I WANT THE WHINE!!! (:

Quote:


I have a LN2, and it gets me from A to B, and until now, it was fun. My 92 RS coup was SLOW, and this was a big increase in speed, handling, and well, style.

My cavalier has horrible handling in the higher speeds.. When im on I-99 going about 65 I feel the body flex a lot .. I'm hoping to solve that when i lower it hopefully by the end of this month !


- 2003 CHEVY CAVALIER LS SPORT ECOTEC -

- Current Mods -
-- Vibrant Exhaust & DC Sport Header --
-- Lower Motor Mount & TTR Upper Motor Mount --
-- B&M ShiftPlus & Vibrant Front STB --
-- K&N Typhoon Short Ram Intake --

RIP DAD<3 We love & miss you so much!

Sharp lane changes at 65? or like general bends?


Mine is decent, i don't think things changed from 00 to 03, but by dads 4 door handles like crap, mine is a lot better, and steering response is good too. I don't know why.



Good luck with your build. Im thinking for reliability sake, I may do the NA build first, just so i have a stronger motor to boost without as much worries.

I forgot to mention, What would a good fuel injectors be to use?

read sticky..it helps alot..

If I were you I would just swap in an eco and not waste your time turboing the 2.2 turd. I think yoyu would be just as happy with the result and at about the same cost.



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Wade Jarvis wrote:If I were you I would just swap in an eco and not waste your time turboing the 2.2 turd. I think yoyu would be just as happy with the result and at about the same cost.

I disagree 100%^^

Granted im bias as i run a turboed 2200 on 9 psi. But the "2.2 turd" has a lot more potential than people give it credit for. just because its pretty slow and very restricted stock does NOT mean it has to stay that way. and from personal experience it benefits extremely well from getting more airflow into that head and i know many can vouch for that as well. its a very good motor with just as much potential as any others if you take the time do your research..

And personally ive seen way to many ecotecs take a @!#$ in the past year, including my LSJ, that i would personally stray away from it although that is only personal opinion but i have noticed more than few dying out....

If its any consolation - i have yet to get mine dynoed or be able to run it at the track but its faster than a slightly modded srt-4 on the street from a stop all the way through 4th gear and it was pulling harder as the speeds climbed.... Its still on the stock block and running solid. your LN2 has plenty of potential.

6 psi well tuned you should have no problems on your stock motor if its been reasonably good shape i guess. and when you mod the head more in the future it will really take to that. but i think even the 6 psi on the fully stock motor will still let you have a lil more fun with the car. but deffinatly open up that head when you can.

oh yea i forgot to add...

universal ebay intercooler piping kits should give you what you need just make sure you get one with silicone couplers and try to replace the hose clamps with t-bolts. although only running 6 psi you might be fine with hose clamps. i run 9 on them and i only have one that keeps popping off and its just due to its location... so this week im fixing it all.

the manifolds are pretty good as well as thats where most of us turboed 2200s get them from. just keep in mind it could crack in the future due to its material. although my only recomendation about them is try to get one without any flanges on it and get your own and have them welded on where you want them. i got a mani with the wg/turbo flange already welded on and the placement, although usable, was a pain in the ass to make things fit right.. but it can still be done. although my boyfriend welded everything such as the dp and stuff so we were able to work around it, but do keep that in mind.

i recommend the hks ssqv bov - if you like the sound of course. but they are very very good quality and use a design which you don't have to adjust as well as they quote it as being leak proof so you know its doing its job right. and also some bovs only work well with certain boost levels and the hks is good for any set up realy.

i also recommend tial wg's. like any product there is always something better and more expensive but tial is deffinatly one of the best companies and their wgs are reasonably priced considering. i would say that most people do seem to lean towards tials - in fact, i have yet to see a set up that uses name brand parts with out a tial wg if its externally gated.

as far as turbo size it depends what your goals are. if you only plan to run 6, im assuming you just want it to be a lil faster and you arent going all race for it. so you probably want something that spools pretty quick and just gives it that extra boost. i would say a t3 super 60 would be a good bet. most of the turbos on here, if not hybrid, are the super 60's. they are a real good turbo for the Js. I personally lean towards the hybrids. i have a t3/t4 60 trim. with 70ar on the compressor and i love it. its 48ar on the turbine so it allows it to spool pretty quick. i mean it has virtually no lag, it jumps through vacuum pretty quick and as soon as its at 5 vac it will instant spool to 9lbs. but it depends how you drive it. i can make drive real laggy and i can make it drive with almost no lag. kinds funny but im sure thats often the case - but this is the only turboed vehicle ive driven. but i got this turbo because tis good till around 400 horse and my goal is pretty close to that in the next year or two (depending on when we fix our lsj which has 1st priority since it needs to be repaired) but i plan on 12s atleast in the "lil turd"...

hope that helps

pretty good info there. i was intrested in turboing my 2.2L but of course i dont have a cavy. ive owned two beretta's with 2.2L in them and they are very reliable motors. but i will say with some mods the engine will flow alot better than stock. i had a full exhaust, udp, and a cold air set-up on my 2.2L and it worked great. i was planning on doing a turbo set-up but i didnt have the money at the time. and now im looking at doing it again.....Great info by the way. and very helpful!!!!

Brandon

i mean why spend around a thousand or more to swap in a stock motor really. why not take that thousand and put it into the 2.2. its deffinatly full of surprises. i mean my turbo and my lil 2.2 shocked the hell out of my boyfriend when were were first starting to drive it after the install. hes the main owner of our cobalt ss, so hes an s/c eco man and he couldn't believe what it brought to the table. granted the only thing stock in the head are the rockers but the block is still 100% stock.

as far as injectors go - im running the cobalt ss/sc stockers as we upgraded the ones in our ss so they were free. only needs a slight mod to the fuel rail and you need to wire the ss clips to your stock wiring and its good 2 go, so that could be an option for you. they are 36lb injectors.

wow really? it would make sense to put the ss injectors in. i was thinking of swaping over the 2200 and all on my beretta, and then using 3800 sc injectors because i just have the non-ecotec beretta with the MPFI and NOT the SFI like the 2200.... i was debating on making my own upper intake manifold with a bigger tb i have all the tools to do it but im just too lazy right now LOL

Brandon

just wondering if a this turbo would be enough...its got a .63 A/R exhaust....

Brandon

Jazer {AzulKav} Turbo Chica wrote:i mean why spend around a thousand or more to swap in a stock motor really. why not take that thousand and put it into the 2.2. its deffinatly full of surprises. i mean my turbo and my lil 2.2 shocked the hell out of my boyfriend when were were first starting to drive it after the install. hes the main owner of our cobalt ss, so hes an s/c eco man and he couldn't believe what it brought to the table. granted the only thing stock in the head are the rockers but the block is still 100% stock.

as far as injectors go - im running the cobalt ss/sc stockers as we upgraded the ones in our ss so they were free. only needs a slight mod to the fuel rail and you need to wire the ss clips to your stock wiring and its good 2 go, so that could be an option for you. they are 36lb injectors.

I just can't see spending x amount of money on a 2.2ohv when the same amount would make another engine more powerfull. I mean you have to mod a 2.2ohv to produce as much power as a 2.2eco stock. So it is not just replacing one engine for another. It is an upgrade. I think the OP just wants a litle boost in power and a reliable engine. If he swaps to an ecotec he will have more options in the future if he wants to upgrade.



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Im all for keeping the OHV. I have always found myself going for the less popular options, its just who i am.


Turbo Chicka, thanks for all that info! I really appreciate it. I think I may do a engine build, with a lot of head work, pistons,and rods. I figure having a strong NA build will give me a better platform to turbo later on. Now i just need to save money. Im job hunting now lol.

Wade Jarvis wrote:

Jazer {AzulKav} Turbo Chica wrote:i mean why spend around a thousand or more to swap in a stock motor really. why not take that thousand and put it into the 2.2. its deffinatly full of surprises. i mean my turbo and my lil 2.2 shocked the hell out of my boyfriend when were were first starting to drive it after the install. hes the main owner of our cobalt ss, so hes an s/c eco man and he couldn't believe what it brought to the table. granted the only thing stock in the head are the rockers but the block is still 100% stock.

as far as injectors go - im running the cobalt ss/sc stockers as we upgraded the ones in our ss so they were free. only needs a slight mod to the fuel rail and you need to wire the ss clips to your stock wiring and its good 2 go, so that could be an option for you. they are 36lb injectors.

I just can't see spending x amount of money on a 2.2ohv when the same amount would make another engine more powerfull. I mean you have to mod a 2.2ohv to produce as much power as a 2.2eco stock. So it is not just replacing one engine for another. It is an upgrade. I think the OP just wants a litle boost in power and a reliable engine. If he swaps to an ecotec he will have more options in the future if he wants to upgrade.

I just can't see spending x amount of money for a engine swap that would only give 25-30 extra hp when the same amount of money could be invested in the 2.2ohv and make more power than a stock eco/2.4. My point is not everyone can find cheap swaps.

If modding an OHV doesn't make sense, then modding a cavalier doesn't make sense. People fail to realize how stout an iron block motor is, especially when compared to boost and spray. The motors only faults are basically not having the parts market to adequately support it. There was an all motor OHV running faster than most boosted Eco's on this site.......nuff said


N2O + Bolt-ons = 220Hp/250Tq

Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200

Mark - Just keep in mind that some N/A mods can only used for N/A builds. Of course there are quite a bit of things you could do that can be used on both Boosted and N/A applications although, not everything can. So just keep that in mind when purchasing your parts.

I agree with both shadowfire and bballjamal. I just dont see the point in swapping in a stock engine when you could have better invested that money elsewhere. Just to follow the crowd maybe? ANY motor has potential if you take the time to do the research. Even if its researching to find out which motor suits you the best. Like for me if i bought a car with an L61 or LD9 - id stay with them, just like i stuck with the LN2. And to be honest im glad i got the LN2. I love working on it - its a fun lil engine and easy to work around considering. And yes its only downfall is finding good parts for it but if you know where to look theres certainly enough places to get parts for a built engine. And another thing thats funny is it seems that like 90% of the people ive seen do the swaps just want a 'peppier' car or maybe just to have an eco and they arent going all out race on it. The 2200 is 110% capable of doing that.

And stock for stock i drove a 2005 ls sport when i went through a short phase doubting my 2200. That was the turning point for me. It was no faster than my 2200. At least not enough to make a noticable difference... at all... i parked that car with any doubts that i had... gone. I was actually surprised how much of a difference it didn't make.

People say its a waste of time and money. Now i know most are bias to the stuff they personally own... but without taking that time and investing that money how do you really know that, that is the case? People saying stuff like that without the knowledge to back it up just create more and more of a negative opinion about this motor and of course other things in life and so many just jump on the bandwagon without having anything to back up. Although that makes it more fun for me in the sence because it makes mine and other's builds more of a rarity. And i certainly don't mind that

I have about 2k left to put into my block to have a fully built motor to swap in. My goal is 12s... without nitrous. That is my goal for me to make me satisfied - then i can play with its exterior. But my side goal is just to prove that the lil underdog can play with the big boys with ease. The only thing stopping me right now is fixing the damn cobalt my boyfriend blew up. what a surprise. another ecotec

Jazer {AzulKav} Turbo Chica wrote:

Wade Jarvis wrote:If I were you I would just swap in an eco and not waste your time turboing the 2.2 turd. I think yoyu would be just as happy with the result and at about the same cost.

I disagree 100%^^
...
And personally ive seen way to many ecotecs take a @!#$ in the past year, including my LSJ, that i would personally stray away from it although that is only personal opinion but i have noticed more than few dying out....

^word

Jazer {AzulKav} Turbo Chica wrote:

Wade Jarvis wrote:If I were you I would just swap in an eco and not waste your time turboing the 2.2 turd. I think yoyu would be just as happy with the result and at about the same cost.

your LN2 has plenty of potential.
6 psi well tuned you should have no problems on your stock motor if its been reasonably good shape i guess.

Nobody on this site has EVER reported a failed LN2 from anything other than poor tuning or a significant disregard for routine maqintenance (not changing oil). One guy said he spun a bearing, but he also didn't know a lifter from a piston. *Note that I don't consider a blown head gasket a failure, that's a fuse

Jazer {AzulKav} Turbo Chica wrote:its 48ar on the turbine so it allows it to spool pretty quick...i got this turbo because tis good till around 400 horse and my goal is pretty close to that

The compressor may flow 400bhp, but the turbine (most likely) won't. If that's whp, not a chance, you're going to need a .63a/r housing.




fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster

yea i understand that... but for now its more than what i need, i have no problems taking it out and upgrading that in the future I think its more accurately rated it 375. I wanted at least a smaller ar on one side for now just to allow me to spool fairly quick and it certainly allows that. Nice thing about turbos is they are easily upgradeable. which is why im not worried and went with his type. Who knows, maybe a GT35 lies in the future

A quicker spool is defiantly what im looking for.

As for my NA build, What wouldn't be ok to use with the boosted application?

well generally you want higher compression on N/A builds versus lower compression on Boosted builds. So when you use components that change the compression ratio keep that in mind (although i raised mine a lil by using an N/A cometic head gasket vs the boosted one ). There are specific camshafts for N/A or Boost. If you plan on boosting it in the future i personally would find it useless to get an aftermarket header as that would be replaced... umm If you do a catback exhaust i would suggest you get a 2.5" now that way you don't have to upgrade later for boost (as i know many are only 2.25 and i had to upgrade mine due to me not planning on boost at first)... An intake would also have to be replaced with charge piping... (i mean some of these are lil things you can do and sell it later on but you'd still lose money so still worth keeping it in mind.)

As far as head work goes i believe all upgrades you can do could be used on both applications... i personally would recommend a port job, Howell Automotive pushrods (only 80$ for a full set and they are much stronger than stock), maybe a valve job with stainless steel valves (1 mm oversized or stock size), valve springs, locks and retainers, possible higher lift rockers although ive found many do like the stock ones. I'm sticking with them as well as i believe OHV Notec prefers them over his aftermarket ones.. Granted thats most of what I have done to my head but I noticed a decent difference when im out of boost compareds to the stock one although hard to say because if i step on it im in boost before i can judge the difference over stock. But i certainly trust the valve train alot more now than i would runnin 9lbs on the stock valvetrain.

Theres a few great in depth threads on here about the 2200 and different components of it (i have them saved at home but im at work so i cant link them) they will give you some great reading. Ive read them more than few times just to gather all the information thats in them, and i still refrence back to them sometimes... Lets see OHV Notec, Madjack, Slowolej, along with a few others are GREAT recourses about this motor as well..

Mad jack has given me some advice in my other threads, he had some great info.

How much whp could you get out of the LN2? After head work, full exhaust, different cams, and a higher compression.

*Cam* for one, as we only have one...

The sky is the limit - i believe the highest ive heard of is mid to high 300s although that doesn't mean thats all that could be gotten out of it, and i don't recall what was done to the car either.

Mark wrote:As for my NA build, What wouldn't be ok to use with the boosted application?

There is NOTHING you can do in an NA build that prevents you from boosting later (although some things may require slight modification).

Jazer {AzulKav} Turbo Chica wrote:well generally you want higher compression on N/A builds versus lower compression on Boosted builds.

Only to make tuning easier. There is no reason you can't run 10:1 plus boost (look at how many ECOS and LD9s on this site do it with stock motors). I raised my compression on my built motor to ~9.75:1. Lower compression ratios give you more room for error when tuning, less power, and most importantly -for anything other than a pure drag car- less off-boost response. My DSM has 7.75:1 compression...it's a dog I can't stand.

Jazer {AzulKav} Turbo Chica wrote:So when you use components that change the compression ratio keep that in mind (although i raised mine a lil by using an N/A cometic head gasket vs the boosted one ).

I try to stress this point possibly more than any other, head gaskets should NEVER be used to change compression ratios. What thickness headgasket you use should be dependent on the quench (squish) distance. For the LN2, with a virgin block deck and stock height pistons, you want a maximum thickness of about .030". It should be less than that even, but it is highly dependent on component strengths and tolerances.

Jazer {AzulKav} Turbo Chica wrote:There are specific camshafts for N/A or Boost.

This is highly debated. Every "boost" cam I've seen has just been a mild NA cam. I say choose your cam profile based on your desired powerband (especially since we don't have billets available, so centerlines are pretty much set in stone...err...steel).

Jazer {AzulKav} Turbo Chica wrote:If you plan on boosting it in the future i personally would find it useless to get an aftermarket header as that would be replaced...

Could always go remote-mount lol.

Jazer {AzulKav} Turbo Chica wrote:An intake would also have to be replaced with charge piping...

Or used as part of the charge piping (I've seen some resourceful people in this forum )

Jazer {AzulKav} Turbo Chica wrote:As far as head work goes i believe all upgrades you can do could be used on both applications... i personally would recommend a port job, Howell Automotive pushrods (only 80$ for a full set and they are much stronger than stock), maybe a valve job with stainless steel valves (1 mm oversized or stock size), valve springs, locks and retainers, possible higher lift rockers although ive found many do like the stock ones. I'm sticking with them as well as i believe OHV Notec prefers them over his aftermarket ones.. Granted thats most of what I have done to my head but I noticed a decent difference when im out of boost compareds to the stock one although hard to say because if i step on it im in boost before i can judge the difference over stock.

Yes, all head work which will benefit an NA motor will benefit a boosted motor. However, it's not as necessary on a boosted motor because you can just "turn up the boost" (stainless valves and rigid pushrods being exceptions). You'd see better results putting the $$$ into a ball-bearing turbo upgrade, so spend the money where it makes the biggest difference. Tuning is where you will see the biggest gains, and it's also the most overlooked. FWIW, I'm putting a stock head on my motor and shooting for 400hp.

Jazer {AzulKav} Turbo Chica wrote:But i certainly trust the valve train alot more now than i would runnin 9lbs on the stock valvetrain.

But why? The valvetrain isn't directly stressed by the "boost" (other than valves)...




fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster

Now for my minor defence

As far as compression, i said its something you generally want to keep in mind... as many do follow that rule of thumb to be "safer"... although for people with maybe more experience and with the tuning capabilities... the sky is the limit.

My head gasket is the N/A - .030... and i chose that one based upon me not wanting to lower compression for my set up, and there was no stock sized cometic option. So i opted for the slightly higher compression option over the lower boost specific one.

As far as camshafts i was under the impression that they were more specific on the type of application although i have not done any comparisons on the 2 "types". My camshaft is "boost specific" so i went with that type..

Yes you can certainly still use an intake with the charge piping (I was debating on that myself) although i personally opted not to do so due to my intake being almost 3" where as my charge pipes are all 2.5... i would imagine it being more efficient (even if only slightly), with keeping the same size throughout all the piping. And i believe most intakes are 2.75 - 3" and most charge piping tends to be 2-2.5" (on general street applications).

As far as the head i personally trust my current set up over stock due to a few stronger components. I mean i still have stock sized valves, they are just now stainless valves. And the push rods im not as worried about bending or breaking, (especially with my current valve springs that are on there. they are stiffer springs over stock). And i would certainly take the 5 angle valve job/port job over stock as well just for the additional gains that those contribute to.

I was really trying to state all the things to keep in mind when doing the build not saying this is black and white on what needs to be changed/not done/done etc... If it came across that way i apologize i was not intending to do that.


And yes certainly DO NOT overlook tuning thats for sure... A stand alone or HPTuners isn't cheap but neither is replacing everything you put time & money into. Granted - a piggy back system can still work fine but id certainly take advantage of more useful ways of tuning the vehicle.