Well, after a lot of thinking, I figure it would be a lot of hassle to try and sell my car, pay off the loan and then get another, substantially larger loan to buy an 03+ with the Ecotec. My main problem is, I have a car that I like, but I just want to squeeze more power from it. My original plan was to bolt on an M62 when the mounting kit became availible from Ken5.7. However, I'm uncertain when and if the project will be finished. So, for the 2200, Turbo is my next, and basically only option to get over 150 HP.
Now, I know most people will say just swap in an Eco, and then turbo that, since the gains will be better. But to be realistic, I'm only shooting to make anywhere from 180-220 HP. Sure, 300+ on an Eco would be awesome, but coming from the 115 I have now (if that) 180-220 would be plenty to have a bit of fun with until I pay the loan off, get out of CONA (It's a college up here) and get a newer car. As well, rewiring the whole car to take an Eco isn't exactly my cup of tea ethier.
So, my plan thus far is to get another 2200 engine to slowing Turbo over the winter months. It may get built as well, but that depends on the cash flow during the winter months. Again, some advice maybe to stop right there, that if you don't have the cash, don't even attempt it, but I don't plan on doing this in a month or two. I plan on getting things when I have the money, and slowly gathering all the parts. When the parts are gathered and put on, I'll swap the motors.
Anyways, if a build doesn't occur, and I decide to just run boost on the stock motor, then I'm going to start out with 5 Pounds, as I wouldn't really want to go over that on a stock motor. I assume I'm going to need a P&P job on the head as well for Turbo, as we all know the 2200's head flows like @!#$?
Now, where I get confused is the Fuel Injection options. I know most people use Megasquirt, but is the alternative for that using HPT to "fool" your ECU and make it run smoothly? This what my major uncertainty so far, as I don't understand it too much...anyone care to chime in?
Well, that's all for this far. I'm sure I have more to add, but I have to get back to work, More questions to come as my research goes on!
HPT will run what you are throwing at it fine.
Get yourself some decent injectors, like 310's maybe. you might also have to run a better fuel pump.
Get a wideband, to help your tuning
I always recomend a built bottom end with forged stuff, but Ryan just blew his stock bottom end at about 300hp @ 20 psi.
p&p will help out, depending on the budget, you might want to think about valvetrain mods to help even more.
what type of turbo are you planning on running?
To be honest, I'm not quite sure yet. Still researching trims and whatnot. As of now I'm thinking something small, with little lag, and a capability of up to say 25 PSI or so, so when I get the build completed, it can supply what I need. Any suggestions?
The engine swap would be a lot of work but I think it would be worth it for you if you are planning on improving the car or buying an eco car after your loan is paid off. The reason i say this is that when you look at how much you will spend to put together a turbo kit to get you there on the 2200 you could swap in a motor that is pretty close to where you want to be and still have room to improve it bit by bit as you feel like it, whereas with the 2200 you will turbo it and then what if you want more? Plus as your plan stands you are already paying for another motor, an engine build, a turbo setup, a tuning solution, and going through an engine swap... thats gotta be more money and equal to or more effort than swapping in an ecotec. The only downside i see to the eco is the downtime while you're wiring. On the plus side for the eco, it will probably be more reliable than a highly boosted 2200, and if you go with a gm supercharger with the money you are saving by not turboing a 2200, you will be exactly where you want in terms of your power goals, still have pretty good reliability and won't have to pay for HPT or anything since you will be sticking with just the GM reflash.
If you definately want to go the 2200 route then more power to you and good luck, i'm sure it will be really sweet when its done! Good luck with college too
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<<<<<2003 Sunfire Sedan>>>>>
Lots of people liked the Garrett T3 Super 60 that cav. connection used. It seemed to be sized very well for lower boost levels on stock bottom end, and could support some higher boost. I think 25 psi is a little out of it's efficiency range....
plus T3 flanged manis are all over the place, unlike mitsu's
Adam:
I'm pretty much set on turbo for the car. Like I said, the whole engine swap deal isn't too much for me. But what you say makes perfect sense. The only thing is when I say I'll be getting another car, I mean something newer, and outside the J-Body Platform. If I was just going to an Eco, it'd make no sense at all, building this 2200 for a year or so, then selling all I bought to go to Eco. I figure If I build the motor, 300 or so should be a good goal, as I see people have used the stock bottom end to about 250, even a case of 287, so I built motor should be able to safley reach 300 or more. Thanks a lot for your advice, and your good luck on both the car and college, I think I'll be needing it
John:
Thanks for the reccomendation. Like I said, I don't know a lot about trims quite yet, but the Super60 seems to be what I'm looking for, as right now it looks like I'll be boosting stocker for a short while until I build up the secondary motor, unless it all comes together at the same time if the funds are around at the right time. Like I said, I'll limit it to 5 or 6 PSI, as I feel safe at that level on stock. Plus the motor only has about 60,000 Miles on it, regular oil changes and whatnot always done, so it should be ok as long as it's a good tune. Besides, by the time my motor can handle over 20 PSI, I can just look around for a Turbo that can accmodate that. Better to learn to walk before I run haha.
Now, anyone care to enlighten me on using a Standalone system, or just using HPT. Just what to know which you think is better, and why?
if you really intend on running that high of boost eventually, you should go stand alone if local emissions laws allow. For running lower boost levels, HPT is fine, or if you are good/know someone good with it, you can program the higher boost levels pretty good as well.....BUT, stand alone has much more capabilities than the J-car computer.
I can tell from personal experience, a boosted OHV is going to be faster than swapping an eco in and lightly building it. I have a built & turbo'd OHV that after almost a year of being boosted, still shocks me when i get on it, and it spins through first, second and often chirps third. My new daily driver is an 04 base coupe with an eco and its peppy but is no where near as fun as my OHV. Does an eco have more potential when you start hitting big numbers? I would say yes.. GM has a build book for it even. But an OHV has potential too, certainly for what you are looking for. Im estimating 250-300 on my build (hasnt been dynoed yet), and Im not stopping till it hits 400
^^^holy crap, you are alive??!!
^^^ Haha yea, sent ya a PM
Miss me distracting you at work?
According to my research, wouldn't a 48 Trim be a better choice, as I'm only going to 5500 RPM?
Swap an Eco, Bolt on a GT35R, go run some mad numbers, enjoy
Oh wait...that's my plan, just with a step I get to skip
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
^ Damn you and your fancy Ecotec!!! I wish I had the means to get one, but I don't want to swap, and I'd rather pay off the loan before I sell the car, so boosted 2200 is my choice.
So, turbo advice for 6 psi on a stock motor?
Adam Hodder wrote:According to my research, wouldn't a 48 Trim be a better choice, as I'm only going to 5500 RPM?
Well to echo John Benham, from my personal experience, I would also recommend a T3 super 60 for the 2200 with a .48a/r. I've done the compression maps for it at my altitude and I'm within efficiency up to 22psi and it starts to go down from there. the turbo itself will go up to 30 lbs.You can go a little bit bigger, as I'm sure some will post their preferences, but that will be up to you to map the different turbos out and decide for yourself where your priorities are. The thing I like and hate about this turbo is the spool time is damn fast, which makes launching a bitch. But luckily for you its gone down in price now since its not BB like all the newer garretts.
As for how much boost to run, well the stock pistons are cast, so its kind of a gamble when they will go out. Some people have had great luck with them, mine broke at 200hp at 12.8 AFR. But i was tuning 10 or 13 lbs then too, i cant remember. With a proper tune and fuel and ignition mods I would say you could run 10lbs daily, but again, its at your own risk. I don't think you'll be satisfied with just 5 lbs tho.
Hmmm, makes sense. So I could upgrade fuel and ignition like you said, and swap the pistons for say Weisco stock bore ones to be safe, and that could be a relible DD with the proper tune, at least until i get the built motor done.
How can I map out the effciency of the turbo though? I'm at sea level, so it's blound to be different from what some of you guys are using.
Also, a question about tempreture. Here in Newfoundland, we get a broad range, like 81 degrees in summer, down to 18 degrees in winter. I'm just wondering how to take account for this broad range? Sorry, some of these question may be the simplest ever, but like I said, I'm still researching.
