i feel a little stupid for asking this but how much modifying will i have to do to run w41 cams in a LD9 with power-steering (beside lifters, lifter bores, valve springs, and PS hex )? and which is better for running boost? and has the better power-band?
(my goal is about 400-500 hp with Garrett T3 60-1 with an a/r of .82 )
My thoughts are you will absolutely need the W41's to hit your power levels with a 60-1 as you will really need to push the 60-1 into it's niche of it's maps to achieve your power goals.
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
I don't need to be dead to donate my organ.
Phased w41 cams. With stock cam gears, you might have too much overlap.
I have no signiture
Ill add that secret cams are a waste with a turbo. I know first hand.
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
what all do i need to do to run the w41 cams (with Power-steering) in an LD9? and what about the batch fire thing?
and where can i get the w41 cams(cheap if possible)?
look up the user name z yaaa on here, he can get u all set up he can modify the cams for u so that u can use your ps pump with the w41 cams, and as for the cams go to quad4forums.com look up user name draftinwitjr, he has a set of w41 cams for sale, tell him kareem sent u
if it can't win a race it better win a show
W41 cams will work really well with adjustable cam gears.
As whalesac wrote, W41 cams have too much overlap to do any good on a turbo engine all on their lonesome. If anything, they'll hurt overall performance in comparison to secret cams or even stock LD9 cams.
but last time i checked adjustable cam gears made by mcmoney i not ready "yet"...lol and just asking but how could i get out this cam setup,.... the ld2 intake cam with HO exhaust cam or the other way around?(im not that good with boost and cams yet)
first off... you do not need 'adjustable' cam gears to move cam timing. there are two CHEAP options i know of that allow the same results. you can either buy a set of zppr's (quad4forums) off-set bushing cam gears (jay, brodycog on here has a set and they work well). sometimes zppr has them up on ebay, havent seen them for our timing chain set-up for awhile though....
or you can simply drill an entirely new cam pin hole in the gears. it requires math skill and engine skill but once you know what you are doing you can get it done very easily. chris taetsch did this on my w41 turbo motor i just bought from him. said he used a protractor for measurement and drilled the new holes.
or you can send me your gears and i can have my machinist do a different timing pin location.... (see more than one hole?)
secondly... scott (lafngas) is running straight up w41 profile (blanks ground by comp cams) cams in his beastly turbo motor and is putting down over 500whp. the overlap doesnt seem to be hurting his performance.
what i would do to run w41's in an LD9...
mod intake cam end for power steering. (laythe end of cam off, drill hole and press in the gm hex insert)
have cam position sensor pad welded on.
run stock 2.3 exhaust cam tower with 2.3 35mm lifters
run modified 2.4 intake cam tower (bore and hone to size lifter bores to house 2.3 35mm lifters). clearence bores if nessesary.
run brand new sealed power 'light weight' lifters and all brand new HO valve springs.
We all need somebody to believe in something...
Quote:
secondly... scott (lafngas) is running straight up w41 profile (blanks ground by comp cams) cams in his beastly turbo motor and is putting down over 500whp. the overlap doesnt seem to be hurting his performance.
If he had comparison graphs showing HO to W41 without adjustable gears, the HO's would put out more (ha...YEAH they would!)
Overlap is the boost being forced into the combustion chamber, and straight out the exhaust causing less cylinder pressure, thus less power than could be achieved with an offset cam profile. (HO's = less overlap = more cylinder pressure = more power)
Not saying scott's setup is weak sauce. Just saying If he went with HO's with everything else the exact same, he'd be making a bit more power...hah..500..puny....lol
Thrice . wrote:Quote:
secondly... scott (lafngas) is running straight up w41 profile (blanks ground by comp cams) cams in his beastly turbo motor and is putting down over 500whp. the overlap doesnt seem to be hurting his performance.
If he had comparison graphs showing HO to W41 without adjustable gears, the HO's would put out more (ha...YEAH they would!)
Overlap is the boost being forced into the combustion chamber, and straight out the exhaust causing less cylinder pressure, thus less power than could be achieved with an offset cam profile. (HO's = less overlap = more cylinder pressure = more power)
Not saying scott's setup is weak sauce. Just saying If he went with HO's with everything else the exact same, he'd be making a bit more power...hah..500..puny....loll
That's not entirely accurate. If the intake charge blows past the exhaust valve, it will burn in the exhaust, raising exhaust and turbocharger temperatures, leading to premature failure. However, a large overlap can lead to the opposite of what you just said. A turbo system builds pressure on two sides: Intake manifold and exhaust manifold. One problem is that exhaust pulses can feed back into the cylinder which raises cylinder pressure but reduces horsepower. An engine built purely for racing can use a larger overlap with a larger well matched turbine AR to reduce the manifold back pressure.
I'm also not entirely sure where you are getting that HO cams are guaranteed to make more power when they have less duration than W41's. There's more to cylinder filling than overlap and lift.
It's been a while since I calculated the overlap for W41's, but I don't recall it being very large. It may be possible to run W41's straight-up and be ideal. It's likely, though, that some phasing would be necessary to achieve more power. It really depends on the engine and turbo system setup.
I have no signiture
The best way I would say to attack this building on the concepts already mentioned would be to calculate the overlap of the W41's, then use adjustable cam gears(hopefully available soon) and get on a dyno and slowly spread them apart run after run and measure the differences. ALOT easier said then done, but that would be ideal. I'm sure the end result will be different for every setup as well depending on the various variables at play.
I would be willing to bet that HO cams would be a best bang for the buck for most all builds since if removing overlap does gain power for your particular setup, your basically slowly tuning W41's into HO's degree by degree. Not to mention the investment in the adjustable cam gears spent to find this out. Obviously ignoring the earlier valve opening that you would be doing which may be to blame for some of the better #'s then stock HO's(not really sure)....but that would be going way far above and beyond the amount of testing anybody would be willing to do I think. But again, this would make the assumption that your setup doesn't like the overlap..... I'd imagine a good test would be to run HO's, get a run in, swap W41's in and do another run. Depending on the results you could make some assumptions and start removing overlap on your W41's to see if the peak power would be between the two profiles.......? This to would be assuming the power level gains on the W41's compared to the HO's would be rather minimal and then operate under the assumption that the greatest peak power possible exists between the two profiles.
We could conjecture for days on possible scenarios tho....I hope the adj. gears aren't crazy high, it would be neat if they were reasonable enough to be willing to spend the $ in only efforts to 'try' at first.
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
I don't need to be dead to donate my organ.
