Well like the title states im thinking about running meth injection and have read/ heard both pros and cons. So i want to know what you guys think on the whole deal should I or shouldnt I. My mods are as follows.

Engine:

* rksport carbon fiber brake fluid cover
* rksport carbon fiber coolant resevoir cover
* rksport carbon fiber fuse cover
* rksport carbon fiber throttle cover
* carbon fiber idi cover
* polished valve cover
* polished fuel rail
* 2.5" custom exaust
* magnaflow turbo xs muffler
* turbo tech racing lower motor mount
* turbo tech racing auto trans mount
* polished 62mm RSM TB
* hpt tuned (15psi)
* level zero motorsports upper solid mount with solid bushings
* saab 9-3 td04H turbo
* hks ssqv bov
* 2.5" intercooler piping
* jet coated brandonson downpipe
* jetcoated saab turbo manifold
* 42# ford green top injectors
* custom FMU
* stainless lines
* ac delete
* LE5 intake manifold from 2.4L cobalt
* battery relocated to trunk

dont see why you need it on a stock motor?
just a quicker way to blow it up
idk thats just me


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, March 15, 2010 12:05 PM

Built&Boosted moar
04 Cavalier Turbo r.i.p my baby
2nd place 2009 GM tuner bash qwick 8--holla

I'm going to be running meth with my setup as well. Can't hurt but cool the charge even more. I guess it depends what your IAT's are and what your looking for out of your car.

You know this from last night but I figure id post it for the rest...
Meth when it works is good, it raises the effective octane level of your air fuel mixture. This lets you tune more aggressively on a given fuel and make more power. However if for any reason that meth kit fails to supply meth, even for a little while, you have guaranteed yourself that you are WAAAAY over the knock limit of your fuel and detonation is assured. The kits have gotten more reliable etc over the years, but they can still fail. I am a big fan of simplicity and having fewer systems on a powerplant, my opinion. If I were you I would just run race gas if you want more power.

Also, even the Meth kits with the fail safe features require an ECU that can switch maps based off the state of a set of contacts that the fail safe will change, if you do not have an ECU that has a map switching input I would not even consider meth.

Also, Meth (alcohol) is a great solvent and can be used to clean all sorts of things, such as oil on the upper cylinder walls, leading to slightly accelerated ring/cylinder bore wear.

I've ran it without meth before an only went .1-.2 leaner, maybe because I am only running a small nozzle but it didn't seem to affect the a/f that much. But everytime I think I am gonna be hard on the car I check it, not that big of a deal. I guess if you wanted it just for the cooling factor you could run just distilled water, I'm pretty sure someone on here did it and found good results with that.

I thought stock rods were only recommended for 250?

and I love for your first 7 mods listed are ricer parts, that dont effect how meth would interact with your engine at all.


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On a properly setup Turbo system I would not run it. Why? Because you can get a proper intercooler and not need it. I have seen intercoolers that will drop IAT's the harder you push the car.

On a supercharged car I would run. I'm running it, love it!! I get a 8-10 degree increase in IAT's from where they are at the start of a pull.



FU Tuning

Meth isn't just for cooler IATs. It also increases the effective octane, allowing you to run more boost before running into detonation (or until you make too much power and blow your motor). An intercooler and meth together will ALWAYS be significantly better than just an intercooler, as long as you can tune or make adjustments to take advantage of it.

Leafy wrote:I thought stock rods were only recommended for 250?

and I love for your first 7 mods listed are ricer parts, that dont effect how meth would interact with your engine at all.

i appretiate all the post but really guy i copied and pasted my mod list from my profile maybey if you would fill your out you would know this, or is it that you have no mods.. i dont consider engine dress up parts rice parts by far, so please do not come in here badgering me with this bull@!#$ you have been on this forum for 4 months where i have been on here fir 5 years. so please go crawl back under whatever rock you came from and thank you...

I just got a meth kit for my m45/ld9 and I am doing it mainly for cooling. I may just run straight water but Im not sure.

With a turbo and some superchargers you have inter/aftercoolers as an option to keep IATs down, but with mine I dont so meth/water injection is more of a need. Personally unless you are running crazy amounts of boost I dont see a need on a turbo + intercooled setup.

Matt Gorman(ECOjunkkcurse) wrote:dont see why you need it on a stock motor?
just a quicker way to blow it up
idk thats just me

I would love to hear the reasons why meth injection blows motors up.

If somebody told you that then thats awesome.

refer to my post. say the pump fails... its SUPPOSED to be seeing meth. guess what no meth, knock goes SKY HIGH, boom there went your motor. we dont have the 2 map ecu so if it fails it fails and your ecu still thinks its getting meth when its not.

depending on what meth you use, methanol is actually a cleaning agent as well and can wash the oil from the cylinder walls and cause premature wear and scoring.

so its VERY easy to lose a motor, thats why i was going to do it but changed my mind. i am making it so i dont have to rely on meth cooling to worry about knock, ill just use race gas when needed. otherwise car will be tuned to 93...

If thats the case then meth didn't blow anything up. lack of it yes like you have stated but if your not monitoring a motor and the parts you have invested then that's more a user error then anything. Meth injection is a great cushion and in most cases it wont blow a motor up the second it stops working the knock will go up and the AFR's will change a degree or so however those are all flags that one should notice especially knocking.

any way to answer arraval 04 eco's question I say yes to meth. Ive helped a buddy install a meth kit (its stupid simple) and know a few people running it with no problems and great results.

SS-J wrote:If thats the case then meth didn't blow anything up. lack of it yes like you have stated but if your not monitoring a motor and the parts you have invested then that's more a user error then anything. Meth injection is a great cushion and in most cases it wont blow a motor up the second it stops working the knock will go up and the AFR's will change a degree or so however those are all flags that one should notice especially knocking.

any way to answer arraval 04 eco's question I say yes to meth. Ive helped a buddy install a meth kit (its stupid simple) and know a few people running it with no problems and great results.

btw none of this is a stab at you. ss-j

its the meth system. which working or not, it would be the reason. dont get me wrong, meth is great, when it works... and you would be surprised how fast lack of meth and instant knock (detonation) ie... the number one motor killer... i have seen it happen on a few subaru's and you cant react fast enough. once they start to knock, when there is supposed to be meth its too late. i have never seen a meth kit spraying under cruising load unless they put an over ride in for some stupid reason. i have seen them used in high revving, high psi, high everything situation. thats when its going to get you in trouble, pump quits a 2,000 rpm, easy to notice and save. pump quits at 7600 and you normall pull to 8000, then boom.

like i said before, pumps have came a long way. aem's kit is quite smart, but only if your car is smart for it too. and ours are not that intelligent to run 2 maps. just because you have never seen a pump stop working or have never had it happen to you, does not mean that it wont. i hear stories like that all the time... well i have never had it happen to me before, oh yeah you are right, since it never happened to you ever, it just simply can not happen. we should all just ask you from now on if its possible lol.

in the end it all comes down to personal choice. what i could do with meth, im going to do with 116. even if i went meth it would be a track only thing, wouldnt need it on the street, plan is to detune the car anyway for the street. where i wouldnt need meth for cooling. thus taking one more possible problem number out of the equation. most of the time where we operate our cars we dont need it for cooling, just the few times that we horse around or at the track.

best suggestion would be like higgins said, get a good FMIC. But what i would do, is tune it to its max on pump gas and call it a safe day.

Just to clarify - most of the newer failsafe kits reduce or bleed off boost if the pump fails. They do not require a switchable map on the stock ecu to do their job. Yes they are more complicated to install, but if the pump fails, no boost + no meth = no blown motor.

I run water/meth on my solstice and I'm happy with the results. My main goal was consistently cool intake charge - mission accomplished. Added octane is a plus, and a passive boost referenced fuel source is a big plus, but they are not the main reasons for me.

As mentioned you have to consider what you want out of the car. Sometimes people complain about the cost of methanol, but at the power levels you will reach with the saab turbo, a gallon of meth at 50/50 meth/water could last you a couple months. I got ten gallons of meth last summer at 3$/gallon and still have abotu 6 gallons left.

i would recomend it... on my m45 my intake temps were at 130 then droped to 35 on a 70 degree day . fred at smg was hpt on the dyno with this. he tuned my car with out the meth. at 207 whp then he added the meth with the tune and i ended up with 220 whp so i think it is a good investment....
what i did is so you know if the pump s working is i hooked up an led from the pump power right next to my boost gauge so i know when it is working....
and we cant reallysay the pump can fail so dont have one because anything can fail fuel pumps can fail injectors can fail.... and those can make an engine go boom. so i think it is much worth it to have meth injection.



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oldskool wrote:Just to clarify - most of the newer failsafe kits reduce or bleed off boost if the pump fails. They do not require a switchable map on the stock ecu to do their job. Yes they are more complicated to install, but if the pump fails, no boost + no meth = no blown motor.

The aem kit doesnt reduce or bleed off boost since its an independent system. aem mentions the two map ecu's which we dont have.
devils own doesnt even mention it.

oldskool wrote:
As mentioned you have to consider what you want out of the car. Sometimes people complain about the cost of methanol, but at the power levels you will reach with the saab turbo, a gallon of meth at 50/50 meth/water could last you a couple months. I got ten gallons of meth last summer at 3$/gallon and still have about 6 gallons left.

and i think meth is still about $3 a gallon now like you said so the price still has not changed much.

jared methe wrote:
and we cant really say the pump can fail so dont have one because anything can fail fuel pumps can fail injectors can fail.... and those can make an engine go boom. so i think it is much worth it to have meth injection.

true anything can fail, but your computer recognizes when hardwired systems fail. Add on systems like meth are not recognizable by our ecu. while im sure meth does work when it works, he needs to make fully sure he needs it. if he can get 93 octane gas at the pump every day, then i dont think he needs meth. just a better intercooler.

Quote:

true anything can fail, but your computer recognizes when hardwired systems fail. Add on systems like meth are not recognizable by our ecu

Dude no different than running nitrous, or boost for that matter. Our ECU's do not read boost (unless you have a LD9 with a reflash.



FU Tuning

Too Whiney wrote:

Quote:

true anything can fail, but your computer recognizes when hardwired systems fail. Add on systems like meth are not recognizable by our ecu

Dude no different than running nitrous, or boost for that matter. Our ECU's do not read boost (unless you have a LD9 with a reflash.

yeah that is true too. hence why i dont have nitrous either

Turbo and SC boost are always there, and if they are not when they are supposed to... you have a lot more than detonation to worry about lol.

I still think looking at paul's setup he will be fine without it and running 93 octane. with a decent sized IC.

BuiltNBoosted wrote:btw none of this is a stab at you. ss-j

yepyep, We just have different opinions man

and like oldskool said its like $3 a gallon for straight methanol. that in a 50/50 distilled water with the lowest nozzil in the AEM kit will work and last a long time. Its just a cushion is all it is. dont be dumb with it. tune everything to work as good as it can on the highest octane you can get and run meth to be a little bit safer with it. and no matter what you will always see a little bit of knock especially with our motors. meth does help though.

Also for people that live in california or arizona we can only get 91 octane out of the pumps. you lucky bastards can get 93 in most everywhere else. so meth for us folk REALLY helps plus its hot a balls useually.

missouri gets 104 at the pump i think..... damn sunoco's

i just think that most of the turbo cars/kits out there can do with fuel what meth would do.

also the only spray system id ever run is a cryo2 lol. thats about it.

no you don't need meth on a saab turbo.


my carDomain updated 3/2/10 Forged and Supercharged

I hear that stuff is bad news for aluminum heads. Anyone know if that's true? I don't really understand why it would be...


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Ryan Pitt wrote:I hear that stuff is bad news for aluminum heads. Anyone know if that's true? I don't really understand why it would be...

It can be as it can be corrosive





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420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Hmm, makes sense. I'm looking into this as a solution to my corvette's ping problem. Gotta love those 70's cast heads.


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