alright, so i been driving manual for a little over a month now. just before i purchased my first brand new stick car i may have had about 15-20 hours of manual driving practice. Now I taught my self to drive it based on a lot of research and analysis of how clutch works but still haven't came to a conclusion, do you guys downshift when slowing down or coming to a red light say in 5th gear, or do you just drop it to neutral?? i've started practicing downshifting a few days ago, and i lean towards that being the right way to drive, but with that practice my fuel consumption went up as well as i know i am wearing out clutch and syncros a lot more (well at least til i get it right). Also i've noticed that double clutching is a little smoother rather than plain rev matching or maybe i just need more practice idk. And for those people that downshift you have to know how to heel and toe which is a bitch to perform with these terribly positioned pedals. Let's hear some inputs
I always downshift. Saves on brakes too.
injectors shut off when you're in coast down (aka decel mode) so your fuel consumption is increased elsewhere.
when you're in neutral, the computer goes into idle mode, using the injectors to keep the engine spinning. when you're in gear and slowing down, the forward momentum of the car transmitted through the wheels and through the transmission spins the engine, so it turns the injectors off all together. slowing down in gear does not consume more fuel.
you don't have to double clutch a synchronized transmission.
you also shouldn't bother with heel-toe if all you're doing is coming to a stop at a traffic light. either use engine braking, or the brake.
personally, I never leave the car in neutral when coming to a stop, I was rear-ended a while back because I was still learning, and now I make sure I'm in a low enough gear for the speed I'm traveling in case I need to move quickly.
Personally I throw it in neutral and just use the brakes. I'd rather change brake shoes than put unneeded wear and tear on a clutch/transmission. Keep a car long enough or drive hard enough you can cash in on those lifetime warranties they throw on brake pads too.
PJ does bring up a good point about being at a stop though. I keep a little extra distance between myself and the car in front and watch the rearview mirror like a hawk. I was completely SLAMMED years ago. In a VW though so luckily the floorboard ripped from the force of me being thrown back into the seat or I might have been hurt.
ohvrolla wrote:Personally I throw it in neutral and just use the brakes. I'd rather change brake shoes than put unneeded wear and tear on a clutch/transmission. Keep a car long enough or drive hard enough you can cash in on those lifetime warranties they throw on brake pads too.
Downshifting properly does not cause excess wear on the clutch/drivetrain. Doing it wrong does. I can shift both up and down, never touching the clutch pedal. It's just a matter of doing it right, and doing it wrong.
www.gmscf.com
RPM matching ftw.
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
SHOoff and PJ, are the both of you suggesting that the OP who has been driving a manual transmission for a little over a month to jump right into shifting without using the clutch. Plus while he's learning to speed shift what about the few to numerous times he doesn't get it right. That's still better for his car than just using the brakes? You can still rev match downshifting while using the clutch which helps out the synchros and doesn't lurch the car, but when stopping just throw it in neutral and use the brake. I'm probably guilty of driving a car normal though.
everyone has different opinions of doing it right and wrong, only advice i can give is do what works for you. I personally just pull outta gear without the clutch when stopping, and after you drive the same car for a while you'll be able to shift and just know where the rpms will be for the next gear, and smoothly let out the clutch for a nice clean shift
If you really know your shift points you wont need the clutch at all. While the engine rpm is slowing or raising you will be able to know when to engage the next gear. I can upshift and downshift without the clutch. I use my clutch pretty much to start off, not much more than that unless I'm needing some quick responses...stock flywheel right now so the engine rpm doesn't move fast enough for quick requests.
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
also when you downshift coming to a red light, do you engage the clutch or keep it disengaged??
i find it really difficult to engage the clutch as i downshift coming to a traffic light, unless you know how to heel and toe
If you're talking about not being able to downshift smoothly, what I do is blip the throttle. I've had my car for a while though so I know what it likes for smooth upshifting and downshifting.
Yeah, I bump the throttle too when I downshift...I can't heel/toe to save my life. Size 14's say hell no.
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
Joshua Dearman wrote:If you really know your shift points you wont need the clutch at all. While the engine rpm is slowing or raising you will be able to know when to engage the next gear. I can upshift and downshift without the clutch. I use my clutch pretty much to start off, not much more than that unless I'm needing some quick responses...stock flywheel right now so the engine rpm doesn't move fast enough for quick requests.
i've only driven stick a few times in my friends cars being i have an auto, but i didn't know you didn't have to use the clutch when you shift. i always thought you wear the clutch/gears a lot more by not using the clutch rather than when you use the clutch.
ohvrolla wrote:SHOoff and PJ, are the both of you suggesting that the OP who has been driving a manual transmission for a little over a month to jump right into shifting without using the clutch. Plus while he's learning to speed shift what about the few to numerous times he doesn't get it right. That's still better for his car than just using the brakes? You can still rev match downshifting while using the clutch which helps out the synchros and doesn't lurch the car, but when stopping just throw it in neutral and use the brake. I'm probably guilty of driving a car normal though.
Negative, I am suggesting that the nay sayers that are going to come in and say that downshifting will destroy your vehicle, are wrong. Nothing more.
I don't believe PJ would tell him what you're suggesting we're saying either.
www.gmscf.com
Improperly downshifting doesn't do a car any good. You know the type. Someone pushes in the clutch, drops a gear, then lets out the clutch while you lunge forward like he just hit the brakes. My dad can't downshift smooth for sh!t, but he never keeps a stick for long. Too much work, lol. Nothing wrong with speed shifting without the clutch, just didn't want Andrey to go out with a new car and not much experience trying it. Useful to know if you have a clutch issue too. Friend of mine had a S-10 with a broken clutch cable and drove it like that. Would let the truck stall out at a redlight and crank it up in gear when the light turned green. Don't know how the h3ll the starter took that kind of abuse.
this is a good topic...
i've always wondered if its ok to shift up OR down w/out the clutch being engaged. seems like an ok thing to do as long as it's done right w/out jerking the car around.
personally ive never understood how people can choose NOT to downshift. it helps slows the car down and really... the transmission goes up through the gears and guess what? yup... its also made to go back down through them as well.
for those thinking its excessive wear on the drive train.. what the f? i take it leaving the car running in the winter time to warm up is excessive wear to... better not do that. come on now... its an engine. its made to run, so let it.
iirc the actual GM manual that comes INSIDE the car says proper driving involves downshifting.
i downshift, it was the way i was taught. i cant imagine driving without doing it.
I'm tired of wasting my time... now I'm breakin' free.
Quote:
for those thinking its excessive wear on the drive train.. what the f? i take it leaving the car running in the winter time to warm up is excessive wear to... better not do that. come on now... its an engine. its made to run, so let it.
+1
It's also excessive wear to rev the engine up as soon as the car starts. I know a lot of people that do that @!#$ too.
www.gmscf.com
For me I crank it up in the winter time and drive off. Just take it easy until it warms up. Z yaaa as far as how people can choose NOT to downshift, just throwing the argument of wear and tear aside I find it easier to put in neutral and use the brakes. Less work. As far as wear and tear I see no reason why my engine can't make it to 300,000 miles. I honestly don't know if the synchros in the transmission can, but if I can increase their longevity by not downshifting then why not.
if your worried about wear and tear and more work of a 5spd then its time for an automatic.
I'm tired of wasting my time... now I'm breakin' free.
Haha, I have two automatics along with the '99 5 speed. '88 Celebrity and '94 Cavalier. Celebrity is my preferred car, V6 and a smooth ride.
I always downshift and blip the throttle. Engine braking FTW.
Tinkles
2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown
I do what I am in the mood for.
Sometimes I catch myself coasting with the clutch in, and the tranny in gear still. Just however I feel like stopping.
Its not gonna hurt the car anymore either way you do it.
Personal preference causes alot of fights on this forum.
z yaaaa wrote:personally ive never understood how people can choose NOT to downshift. it helps slows the car down and really... the transmission goes up through the gears and guess what? yup... its also made to go back down through them as well.
for those thinking its excessive wear on the drive train.. what the f? i take it leaving the car running in the winter time to warm up is excessive wear to... better not do that. come on now... its an engine. its made to run, so let it.
iirc the actual GM manual that comes INSIDE the car says proper driving involves downshifting.
i downshift, it was the way i was taught. i cant imagine driving without doing it.
all i can say is lawl to this. when do i get to see ur car?
bring that whore out to play!!!!
