not gonna be popular but maybe that kid should not have joined the marines. he did not deserve to die regardless of the situation but @!#$ people the military is not the summer camp that you went to in 5th grade.
^^agreed especially the freaking marines i mean you can not expect to s*it happen and i don't mean physically i just mean you have to have some determination to get through basic
2nd place is the 1st loser
Looked like a scrawny little kid. Why would you join the marines? Death wish?
I mean that is not acceptable actions from out military under any circumstances. And actions need to be taken to prevent this. But for chrissake, why would you try to join the marines and not expect it to be the most rigourous and hardest thing in your life. Yea your going to go through hell and want to go home, but you can't, just like war. All over a 25 meter swim. I mean im not in the military, nor od i want to be, but if your ready to quit after a 25 meter swim.....
They didn't mention if he had tried to go up the chain of command to see about a release. I know the ARMY came out and told me that they couldn't force me to do anything. Which is also how I got discharged before boot camp (I was basically led to believe my recruiter, and he couldn't hold up his end, so I got out). But He wrote 7 letters home, but I wonder if he had tried going up his command. I feel bad that it happened, and that his family is sufferring. I do hope he had an accurate portrayal of the rigors of boot camp before he signed. As it was said, it isn't a walk in the park, or a summer camp.
God bless him and his family, and be with them in their time of need. Hopefully, this won't happen again.
Brakes? I don't need no stinking brakes....I have air bags
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but how could he have drowned.......the drill instructors should have pulled him out, so there was a big leadership flaw and i think all the drill instructors need to be brought up on criminal charges for letting him die negligent (sp?) homicide
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You know, there's laws in every state that public pools need to have at least one lifeguard on duty at all times.
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Didnt you know the military was above the law..?
er, only when no one notices or complains they are above the law.
So nobody that was present at a marine corps training pool knows CPR?!?!?!
I think its obvious what happened, and that is complete crap.
I would have thought it nearly impossible to drown while swimming in a pool run by marines. Maybe if he drown while training at sea or something, but in a pool? That sounds like murder. Nobody noticed him floating face down during a training exercise? How are they going to explain this?
PAX
Someone definatley did something wrong and I hope they go to jail. When I did the 25 meter swim in boot camp it was in the shallow end. You could just stand up If you couldnt make it. Some people just dont know how to swim and its not their fault.... but there isnt much of a learing curve in boot camp.
Quote:
Looked like a scrawny little kid. Why would you join the marines? Death wish?
^ you can go to hell. He VOLUNTEERED 4 years of his life to defend our country and you critize him. What have you done latley?
it is completely possible to drown in a pool. seeing as everything is gonna be speculation here it is quite possible that he was drowning and and someone attempted to step in and help out and was unable to. if a drowning victim is fighting you when you try to help them you can either stay with them and drown yourself or leave them be to take themselves. and just because someone "knows" CPR does not mean that they know how to do it right. and who knows if it was a full combat load swim or what? it can make a big difference.
Im pretty sure the 25 meter swim is done in cammie shirt and trousers no boots or pack. When I did it there were at least 5 marines watcing over to make sure nobody drowned.
In the Marine Corps period, whether Boot Camp or the Fleet there is a test where you have to survive for 4 minutes, treading water, floating, whatever you have to do. Now none of the DIs or swim instructors are in the pool with the Recruits, they are outside on the side, but they do have lifesavers to throw in. Now he may have survived that, and gone on to jumping into the pool from the 5m platform, and not been able to come back up. We don't know none of us were there.
Now the video where the DI hit the Recruit, ok DIs aren't allowed to hit the Recruits, but they deserve it sometimes, in Boot Camp you don't matter, and you're treated as such that's just the way things are, and it's BS the restrictions that are put on DIs today, one of my dreams is to be a DI, but I don't even know if I want to do it anymore because of all the BS restrictions that they have put on them.
Oh, and that kid is about as skinny as me and I made it through Boot Camp and became very successful in the Marine Corps
Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home
Saint:
I hope you can get through the BS and do what you want to do... I hope you do well, man.
Question though: If you are doing water-borne training (swimming, diving, etc.) would it not make sense to have a rescue trained DI at hand? I know from experience (I'm no great swimmer, but I've gone and done something where I took a half-water breath and about died because I was underwater and tried to cough and breathe) that even the most capable swimmer could get a lung full of water, and be dead in a few seconds. Life saver be-damned, you don't look for that stuff when you realise you're drowning.
I know from anecdotes that Boot Camp (esp USMC) is hell, but I seriously wonder why there weren't DI's that were trained in CPR, drowning resucitation.. etc.
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It was probally an idiot like saint that was in charge of the saftey in the pool. "Sometimes marines need to get hit"??? Maybe he just needed to drown a little bit to learn his lesson.
Marines need to be trained and that ovbiously didnt happen here.
Saint... if you dont want to be a drill instructor because you wont be allowed to hit or choke out a recruit or whatever... please dont become one. Go abuse your wife or kids but not someone who volunteered to defend our country.
Saint... if you dont want to be a drill instructor because you wont be allowed to hit or choke out a recruit or whatever... please dont become one. Go abuse your wife or kids but not someone who volunteered to defend our country.
WTF?
Alright... that was a little harsh. But it just pisses me off that some people think that Marines deserve to get beat and abused. Some Marines think viloence is the best way to get someone to do what you want..... It worked for the drill instructor who hit that kid. There was probally an better way to get that kid in the pool but hitting him and scaring him was the easiest, so why not.
Isnt that how the rest of the world works too?? At mcdonalds after your told to throw in a batch of fries to they punch you in the gut to make sure you do it fast.
Sorry for gettin on ya saint but... in your 2d paragraph, you made it seem like you only want to be a drill instructor is you can beat up recruits. There is alot more to it that that.
^^^^ Armed forces are trained to be mindless drones. They are trained in combat or their specialized job and are also trained to take orders. They're going to go out and get shot at and possibly tortured. I think it'd make them stronger and work harder to be pushed to their limits. Some people take pride in the fact that they are Marines and they survived to be one. Ask my dad and mom.
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TMNT: It probably did come off as me wanting to be a DI just to hit or choke a Recruit, but that's not the case, I want to be a DI to train Marines, but there are a lot of BS restrictions put on DIs that just have no reason being there because it is all a numbers game now, there are a lot of Recruits that slip through the cracks and don't get trained how they should and make it into the Marine Corps. During Boot Camp you should be under more stress then at any other time in your career with the exception of Combat, but unfortunately Boot Camp has been toned down so much that there are NCOs that are tougher on the Boots then their DIs were, I'll admit I'm one of them, and we wonder how some of the Marines even made it into the Fleet. The whole point of ITing a Recruit or Hitting or Choking a Recruit is to try and drill into their head what happens when you mess up and that there are serious repercussions that follow, that way when they deploy over here to Iraq they can perform their job flawlessly and bring every Marine back home alive. If you don't instill that into their head at an early point in their training then it will never be there and you end up with someone who can't be depended on when it's time for the real thing and it hurts the combat effectiveness of the entire unit.
Larsen: Now on the mindless drones bit, not is very inaccurate and quite unfair. I can't speak for the rest of the Services, but the Marine Corps trains you to be a leader, and in order to be a good leader you must be a good follower, so it is essential that you are able to follow orders when they are given, but you must also be able to adapt quickly and improvise to get the job done. When I give my Marines a task seldom do I tell them how to get the job done, I just tell them what needs to be done, it's up to them to get it done by the time I told them to get it done by. The troops know what to do and how to do it, I don't need to be out there micro-managing them, unless they've shown that need to be micro-managed, then I'll be glad to have them do the job by the numbers, but that's an extreme case and the Marine has to really be a rock in order for me to do that.
GAM: Every DI is CPR trained, and the Swim Instructors are highly trained swimmers, but sometimes that still isn't enough to save someone, especially when the person is panicking and putting the Rescuers lives in danger. I'm sure that the DIs did everything they could whether they liked the Recruit or not, because to allow a Recruit to die on your watch is something that can destroy a Marine's career, and even the most selfish DIs aren't gonna allow that to happen.
Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home
mindless drones, eh? Care to tell me how a mindless drone works as a sysadmin for a few thousand machines of various configurations and types? Being conditioned to deal with the worst of circumstances doesn't mean that you're brainwashed...
ECB: I Can'r speak for hi, but I think James was talking about how most Military service people are conditioned to think inside the box, and not let emotion or reason cloud their objective. I remember reading about a Pop. Mechanics reporter that was embedded with a unit (had to be marines.. ) In Afghanistan, saying that more than once Marines were asked to do something that was totally "F**ked up, Sir" and doing it anyways because the mission dictated it.
Saint:
Thanks for clearing that up, I was pretty sure joe avg. DI had to know SOMETHING about rescue and CPR etc. but I was certain. I would have found it a little disturbing because RCMP Instructors have to have several accreditations before they can instruct/train.
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Yeah, I was half asleep when I wrote that. But many armed forces personel are only trained for combat and don't let emotions get in their way. I know it's hard for alot of soldiers who come back from combat to get out of combat mode. But the Marines are meant to be the best of the best. They are pushed to their limits. And they are, IMO, the best the US has to offer. So they are trained to think on their feet for their mission. They're not "mindless" so much as they will follow every order given to them, whether they agree or not. Once again I'm tired so if I'm wrong correct me.
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^^^ I Think that's what was meant to be said.
Saint:
I have no doubt that there are a lot of marines that shouldn't be in the corps, but I think that corporeal punishment is a futile way to enforce punishment of bad behaviour, It's draconian, and there is a very serious possibility that it will not only backfire, but it's only marginally effective. If it doesn't work in kids, how will it work with "adults," ya know?
Put it this way: Would you, as a civillian, work for a company that condoned physical reprisals for misactions? I dare say, no. If you want it more oriented towards combat, would you, as a boxer, stay with a trainer that routinely beat on you if you didn't follow his directions to the letter? again, I'd say no.
Personally, I have no doubt that Boot Camp is supposed to be as stressful as can be had without actually being in Combat, but there's no need to heap extra stress on recruits. I would say the wash-out threshold should be raised before condoning physical reprisal, misbehaviour and disobeying orders is something that needs to be addressed on the spot, and basically, a person needs to know their limits, don't tolerate in training what wouldn't be tolerated during operations.
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