AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ! - General Forum

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AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:29 AM
This has been touched on here before, but the information bears repeating. It can't be stressed enough that you take proper precautions when working on your car, especially when working on brakes or clutches. While most don't have the high levels of asbestos that they once did, there is still SOME asbestos content in the material, making it extremely dangerous to work with. It doesn't even take long-term exposure to put yourself at risk for diseases like mesothelioma, asbestosis and lung cancer.

The following article (LONG read, but very much worth it) is an excellent source of information:
seattlepi.com wrote:Most mechanics don't know -- or don't care -- about asbestos

Friday, November 17, 2000

By CAROL SMITH and
ANDREW SCHNEIDER
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTERS


The government tried for years to warn mechanics of the hazards of asbestos in brakes. But the message didn't get through to the thousands of grease-streaked neighborhood shops that do brake jobs every day.

Most mechanics today either don't know, or don't care, about asbestos.

During the past four months, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer observed scores of mechanics changing brakes in more than 70 gas stations and auto-repair shops. Some national brake-repair chains and high-end car dealers have pristine work bays, shiny tiled walls, sterile-looking tool bins and asbestos-capturing filter systems. However, most procedures on sick cars get done in smaller garages, under less than operating-room conditions.

The mechanics doing the work in these independent shops are largely using obsolete or inadequate techniques, putting themselves at risk. The well-documented danger of asbestos is rarely considered.

Asbestos is a killer. It causes asbestosis, lung cancer and mesothelioma -- all incurable. Mesothelioma snuffs out life in months. Asbestosis destroys the lungs' ability to function. Death by slow, agonizing suffocation takes years.

Yet nine out of 10 of the mechanics and supervisors interviewed thought that there was no longer asbestos in brakes or clutches.

Health researchers and industrial hygienists have developed many techniques to reduce exposure to asbestos as auto mechanics do their jobs. These protective measures boil down to a simple philosophy: Keep asbestos fibers out of the air, and if that can't be done, at least keep mechanics from breathing it.

All of the guidance produced by government and industry denounces the old "dry" method used for decades.

Compressed air hoses were commonly used to blow the dust from the brake mechanism. Using this method to clean drum brakes could "release up to 16 million asbestos fibers in the cubic meter of air around a mechanic's face," the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) warned.

Even hitting the brake drum with a hammer to loosen it can generate 1 million fibers, the agency said.

Wiping with a dry brush or dry rag can launch a deadly cloud of fibers.

The Coordinating Committee for Automotive Repair (CCAR), an education program for mechanics sponsored by 200 manufacturers, colleges, health groups and government agencies, warns that even the new "wet" techniques "may actually contribute to the problem."

Wiping with a wet rag or brush does little to prevent the scattering of asbestos.

"When the rag dries or is shaken, asbestos is spread around the garage," says CCAR's Web site.

Liquid squirt bottles or aerosol cans of solvent "scatter much of the asbestos and when it dries, it is still all over the surrounding work surfaces," the group warns.

CCAR, EPA and the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OHSA) all recommend that mechanics wear respirators, carefully fitted and with asbestos-trapping filters. They caution against using traditional vacuum cleaners or shop-vacs because, unless equipped with a special "HEPA" or high efficiency particulate air filter, the fibers will not only not be captured, but in fact, be blown out and spread over a much wider area.

The recommendations also suggest that mechanics wash well and change clothes before going home. Dirty work clothes should be laundered at special facilities equipped to handle clothes contaminated with asbestos, the group says.

It is a safe bet that only a small percentage of mechanics follow all of these recommendations.

"You're dealing with the phenomenon of, 'If mechanics can't see it and they can't smell it, it doesn't exist and they don't deal with it,"' said Sherman Titens, CCAR president.

Titens is correct. The mechanics interviewed and observed by the P-I appeared almost cavalier in their disregard for their own safety.

Three were still using air hoses to blast the dust away.

When a mechanic in Seattle was again visible through the cloud of black he stirred up with the air, he looked sheepish and said: "I hold my breath until the dust settles."

When told that studies show that asbestos fibers can stay airborne for hours or days, he just shrugged.

Some were proud that they were using the so-called "wet method," an OSHA-sanctioned technique for reducing the asbestos hazard that they'd learned in school.

As a Tacoma mechanic hosed down the brake mechanism on a Ford, a black, dusty fog boiled out of a collection pan gathering the dark water at just about his chest level. A gritty film covered his face and his blue denim shirt.

"This is supposed to be the safest way," he said, looking a bit chagrined.

Other workers employed magical thinking about asbestos.

"It's OK, because I always wear gloves," said one.

"Asbestos isn't bad if you don't smoke," said another.

Some believed even if a brake contained asbestos, the residue left over wasn't dangerous.

"By the time we see it, it's all ground down like dirt and can't hurt you like the fibers can," a brake worker said.

Many said they simply held their breath.

But asbestos is invisible. You can't avoid it by blowing out or turning your head. What's more, while smoking does exacerbate the likelihood of disease, thousands of victims who have died from asbestos never smoked.

At many stations, machismo hangs in the air like secondhand smoke. Older mechanics, like campers trading bear stories, swap tales about how much asbestos they have sucked down.

"That's why you don't see any old mechanics," another said with a laugh. But he was only half kidding.

Four out of the 77 repair shops had HEPA vacuum-equipped enclosures for changing brakes -- two at dealers and two at independent stations. Mechanics at both the smaller shops said they couldn't remember the costly rigs ever being used.

"I know how to do it, but I don't use it. It just takes too much time," said one Boston-area mechanic. "I can get four wheels done before I can get one set through the vacuum setup."

CCAR's Titens says the rule is time is money.

"In the independents, they typically work by the hour, which means if they're not working on a car they're not getting paid," he said. "The owner is not going to change his ways voluntarily so you've got this disconnect between these good environmental practices and the need to make a living."

Owners or managers in 11 stations bought respirators for their mechanics. Properly used, they will prevent the inhalation of the lethal fibers. However, in all cases the respirators sat in unopened, dust-covered boxes.

Some mechanics occasionally use paper surgical or dust masks. Almost none of these will stop asbestos fibers from being inhaled.

Titens says CCAR worries about the turnover of about 60,000 mechanics a year.

"The schools only graduate 40,000 a year, so what you get is a lot of on-the-job training which only perpetuates all the faults of the past," he said.

Brian Hughes, an automotive instructor at South Seattle Community College, shares Titens' concern.

"I tell them to assume it is asbestos because the risk factor is too high," he said. But he admits it's difficult to communicate the risks of something students can't see and that won't affect them for many years.

He also stresses that they can't count on employers or oversight groups to protect them, and to speak up if they see unsafe practices.

"I tell them the only one who is going to protect you is you," he said. "You can't expect an organization or a group to do it. You're going to have to be the one who stands up and says this is unacceptable."

He had a sense of humor that permeated everything he did. Even the agonizing death he was fighting from mesothelioma -- a rare form of asbestos-caused cancer that destroys cells that line the chest or abdominal cavity.

"With all this asbestos in me, I'm probably fireproof," Kine joked. "I can eat all the hot chilies there are."

After two decades of running his own auto repair shop, he spent the next 26 years teaching others how to do it. He taught mechanics to hundreds of youths in Spokane's West Valley School District, at Spokane Community College and at the Shelton High School near Olympia. At one point, he was president of the local Washington Education Association.

It was a tightness in his chest, a hard time getting a full gulp of air, that brought him to the doctor in March of 1998.

"First I thought I had a bad cold, or the flu, but I couldn't shake it," Kine recalled.

Some X-rays showed how wrong he was.

"The next morning I was flat on my back in a hospital and they were draining this yellow gunk out of my right lung. Lots of it," he said.

Ultrasounds and CT scans followed immediately.

"I had this huge mass between my right lung and my ribs."

A biopsy to get a sample of the mass became major surgery.

"They started up front," Kine said, pointing to his chest, "and wound up going all they way around to the back and up over the shoulder blade. They were trying to get around the mass, but it was everywhere. It had grown through and all around my ribs."

He had mesothelioma.

"I know what it was. It was in the handouts I gave to my students. It was what I warned them about; it was the ultimate harm that asbestos can do to you if you're sloppy working with brakes and clutches," he said. "And now I'm dying from it."

The survival rate for mesothelioma is usually eight to 12 months. Kine made it almost two years.

He fought hard. Chemotherapy, radiation treatments, dozens of them. They slowed the growth of the cancer, but didn't stop it.

"I'm not afraid of dying, but I'm terrified of leaving Donna alone," Kine said, fighting back the tears as he thought of his wife of 42 years.

"I don't want to be a burden but I really wanted to watch them live their lives," he said, speaking of his daughter, two sons and four grandchildren.

Always the clown, he quickly changed the subject.

"The worst thing about the chemotherapy is that it changes the way things that you loved all your life taste," Kine said.

"My favorite was shortbread animal crackers, but now they taste terrible. Coffee, which I used to almost inhale, tastes ghastly. Life is just funny."

He thought back to when he first learned that asbestos in brakes can kill.

"I guess it was in '83 or '84," he recalled. "We got these fliers from the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) or OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) or some government agency, telling how dangerous asbestos was and how much was contaminating the average guy doing a brake job.

"It just didn't make sense. I'd been messing with asbestos for years and so had every other mechanic I knew. No one ever told us it could kill you."

While he was still debating how much attention to pay to the federal warnings, the National Automotive Education Association sent him another batch of pamphlets for his students.

"They were serious. This asbestos was bad stuff. I started think back to all the old mechanics I knew, but I didn't know a lot of old mechanics. Most of them had died of breathing problems or lung cancer and some of them never smoked," he said.

Quickly, he added asbestos dangers to his curriculum.

He remembers telling his students that medical researchers said an exposure lasting only one or two months can result in mesothelioma developing 30 or 40 years later.

"I don't think it sunk in," he said. "These kids were convinced they'd never die, especially not from something they couldn't see. But I kept hammering at them."

He became an auto-repair evangelist, spreading the word of the dangers of the invisible fibers every time he stopped at a gas station.

"God, they were bullheaded. I remember when I was young. I thought nothing could harm me."

Long before he was diagnosed, he wondered about his own exposure.

During the 20 years he ran his own repair shop in Spokane -- Grand Prix Motors -- he was doing four or five major brake jobs a week.

"There was asbestos dust all over the place," he said. "We'd sand the brakes, file them, drill them, grind them and we and everything around us would be covered in that black grit.

"I'd blow my nose and it would be black. I'd wash my hair and the tub would be black."

He said it wasn't just the brakes that had asbestos.

"It was all over the vehicle," he said. "It was in the clutches, the exhaust and intake manifold, the cylinder heads, lots of gaskets. It was everywhere," Kine said.

He was angry that the manufacturers of the cars and the replacement brakes and clutches never warned mechanics of the dangers.

"Not a damn word. Not one. Never," he recalled. "Even in the early '90s the parts salesmen were saying it was much ado about nothing.

"How could they possibly keep something so deadly a secret?"

He didn't understand, he said, why the government went silent.

"I was just amazed. The government was so serious about getting the word out about the dangers from asbestos in the '80s. Then it just stopped, silence, like someone turned off the faucet," he said.

Like almost everyone else, Kine believed that the government had banned asbestos, that new cars no longer used it and replacement parts were now asbestos-free.

"I'd go these gas stations and see the kids covered in dust. Some of the brake boxes still said asbestos on them. Most didn't, but I could tell it was full of those fibers," he said.

"The kids would just shrug. They probably thought I was an old fool."

But Kine didn't quit trying.

"It became easier to hammer my point home after the surgery," he said. "I'd lift by shirt and show them the scars and then they'd pay attention."

Kine was most proud when his students came back to show off their wives and kids.

"I couldn't help wondering, 'Do they have it? Will they get it? Do they remember what I warned them about?'

"My students were not the ones that were going to MIT, but they were going to be damn good mechanics. But would the job kill them?"

As the tumor grew, Kine became weaker, but he kept fighting it off. He had one more thing he wanted to do. In June, the National Model Railroad Association and Circus Model Builders were holding their national convention together in Boise.

Trains and circuses, two of Kine's loves. For years, as Red Nose the Clown, he entertained hundreds of children.

"These go together because in the old days all the circuses traveled by railroad," he said. His collection of model trains was extensive and he wanted to show them off one more time.

Kine went to Boise, clown costume and all, wheeling his oxygen bottle behind him.

"I had to go and I did. It was hard, but it was worth it," he said.

The disease was taking its toll.

"You can't walk anywhere. You've got to plod and I've never been a plodder," Kine said. "My right lung doesn't do anything at all and I've got less than 30 percent function in my left lung. And it's never going to get any better. I'm going to be treading water the rest of my life."

On Aug. 13, he went into the hospital for the last time. He was suffocating from the fluids in his lungs. The cancerous mass had grown so large it was blocking his intestines.

That night he talked about the importance of getting the word out that asbestos was still out there.

"I hear the burst of an air hose and I cringe," Kine said. "Even with my eyes closed I can see the clouds of dust and now, when it's too late, I can almost see the invisible fibers of asbestos. I know it's in there.

"I wish I could do more, but I'm going to die here. EPA, OSHA, someone has got to warn these kids that they're working with death. If the government doesn't do anything, no one will."

Kine died on Aug. 25.

In his will he wrote that he wanted neither funeral nor memorial service.

"I feel they work a hardship on those left behind. I want my relatives to have a good old-fashioned wake instead ... buy a keg or two, prepare food, celebrate my life with a big party. Cab fare will be provided as needed."

Parties were held in Spokane and Olympia.
More information can be found at the following links:





09:f9:11:02:9d:74:e3:5b:d8:41:56:c5:63


Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Tuesday, January 17, 2006 11:46 AM
Sticky?


____________________________________________________________________
Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.



Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Tuesday, January 17, 2006 11:46 AM
Maybe in the maintenance forum?


____________________________________________________________________
Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.



Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Tuesday, January 17, 2006 11:59 AM
just curious as to what brought this on ??







Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:02 PM
Yea, and cigarettes kill many more, than absestos ^^ and to tell the truth im more afraid of the 80 year old lady that rides down the highway with her left turnsignal on. Then die'n from brake dust.







Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:13 PM
[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM&00s/c sedans™)]just curious as to what brought this on ??I read the article and found it interesting. Call it my good deed for the month.
Big Boi -Coloradojbody.org- wrote:Yea, and cigarettes kill many more, than absestos ^^ and to tell the truth im more afraid of the 80 year old lady that rides down the highway with her left turnsignal on. Then die'n from brake dust.
And?

Dead is dead no matter the cause and I thought this was something worth posting. It's a simple warning and if you choose not to care about it that's your problem. Mesothelioma is real. Lung disease, lung cancer and asbestosis are real. Black lung is real. Ask anyone that lives in coal mining areas about any of those. Ask the vermiculite miners and W.R. Grace employees in Libby, Montana about asbestos poisoning. You can ignore it all you want...doesn't mean everyone wants to.







09:f9:11:02:9d:74:e3:5b:d8:41:56:c5:63

Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:49 PM
I was actually involved in one of the first class action suites for asbestos. I didn't want to be.. it was something our union did. We won.. guess what the the huge settlement for any future cancer bills was? $101...

I have 15 years worth of brake dust in my lungs.. and those years are from the mid 70's to the 90's. But I don't know if that any worse than the Vega fumes I breathed!





Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.


Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:24 PM
Makes me glad I only worked in a Dealership for a few years....... and only do the occasional brake job here and there......

That article is right though, at UTI they barly touched on Asbestos....... and at the dealership, all the techs blew the brakes off with air hoses........ I can only think of 1 or 2 techs that wore masks....... and they blew the crap around more then anyone else.

One thing they did do at the Dealership........ they made us use the Water based brake cleaner...... it was supposed to trap the Asbestos, and evaped really slow........ leaving a coating on the Asbestos fibers...... IDK if it helped any.




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:25 PM
Thanks for the info jimmyZ,i guess im gona wear gloves and a masnk when i do my front brakes...hmmm didint i just to my rears....CRAP!!!!

Make this a friggen sticky!!!!

TURBO4DOOR



Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:47 PM
Good read... but I don't think we need to make everything a sticky





Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:31 AM
Lenko, John Lenko wrote:Good read... but I don't think we need to make everything a sticky
You're just saying that cause you wanna put it in the FAQ!!






09:f9:11:02:9d:74:e3:5b:d8:41:56:c5:63


Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:02 AM
Good Read...I never knew that.




PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:37 AM
I worked at Michael Tire for a year straigth busting tires. Put that impact on the lugs with a car that had hub caps (impact gun sound).......dust every where! At the time you knew but no one made a big deal. It really hit me when I was talking about replacing my asbestos roof. My wife goes your not gettting anywhere near it. I said unless I nibble on the shingles it won't do anything but then I started to think about the dust! It's good to make some of the younger guys aware that might be in the automotive field to let them know that their is still a risk there. I rather die from sex or too many cheese bergers than asbestos.



Quote: no ofence man but if you have so much experience in all that why does your car look like crap?

Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:49 AM
as i said i was curious , so good call on posting it , for those that didnt know


i usually wash the brakes down with water , but i know its hard when your trying to get the drums off

funny thing is with disks , where does the dust go , EVERY WHERE !!!!!!!!!!


which means that dont do brakes can even be effected , just think of sitting in bumper to bumper traffic , and all the brakes


either way something is gonna kill me 1 way or another , but try to keep some stuff down as much as i can










Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 11:47 AM
Ha what a joke.

Flywheels, brakes etc. arent made out of absestos anymore people. They havent been for many years.

Do some research people, look it up, absestos, not around anymore.




- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new



Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 12:07 PM
Rob S wrote:Ha what a joke.

Flywheels, brakes etc. arent made out of absestos anymore people. They havent been for many years.

Do some research people, look it up, absestos, not around anymore.
Um, do you EVER contribute anything useful OR correct? Are you a full time idiot or is this a part-time gig while you study to become a full-fledged moron?

Where are you getting your information? And what material IS being used in it's place? If it's not an issue anymore, then why is OSHA so concerned about it? Why do brake parts manufacturers offer extensive courses on preventing health problems associated with the materials their parts are made of? I've been to the classes from Bendix and Wagner and they tell you up front "not taking precautions when working with our parts will eventually kill you". Asbestos precautionary procedures are STILL part of the ASE Brake certification test. Kinda funny if there's no asbestos in the parts anymore.

If this is no longer a problem, then why is there still REAMS of information available on the asbestos content of parts? Even when you buy brake pads that are "semi-metallic" for your car, what exactly do you think "semi" means? What do you think the REST of the pad is made of? And what about the organic compound brake shoes that you see on most cars? What do you think THEY are lined with? "Asbestos-Free" parts ARE available, but they are not ALL that is available. They are more expensive, meaning most people will opt for the basic parts.

You've been told many times before and this time is no different...if you have no clue what you're talking about, keep your mouth shut. This thread is about people's health, not about you trying to sound knowledgable and self important. If this is the garbage they're teaching at UTI, make sure you tell us what shop you wind up working for so we know where NOT to take our cars.

Go back to trolling Off-Topic. At least there people already KNOW to ignore you.







09:f9:11:02:9d:74:e3:5b:d8:41:56:c5:63

Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 12:44 PM
Rob S wrote:Ha what a joke.

Flywheels, brakes etc. arent made out of absestos anymore people. They havent been for many years.

Do some research people, look it up, absestos, not around anymore.


There's still asbestos in those, it's just the proportions that changed...





Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:03 PM
So the item descriptions on the computers at the auto stores that say "Asbestos free" on the brake pads I buy are lying?? And if they are lying then why has no one sued them. I can see the problem at garages where they are changing brakes on grannys car from the 1980s thats driven once a month and hasnt had brakes changed for x amount of years. But as far as the general JBO population that changes thier brakes in their driveways, i dont think we are dealing with asbestos anymore.



2007 GM Tuner Bash...HELL YEA
PA,MD,NJ,DE,NY and all states north caravan
Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:19 PM
Boardorgohome(loves NC again) wrote:So the item descriptions on the computers at the auto stores that say "Asbestos free" on the brake pads I buy are lying?? And if they are lying then why has no one sued them. I can see the problem at garages where they are changing brakes on grannys car from the 1980s thats driven once a month and hasnt had brakes changed for x amount of years. But as far as the general JBO population that changes thier brakes in their driveways, i dont think we are dealing with asbestos anymore.
That's not the case at all. The parts that are called "Asbestos-free" are exactly that. However, they are but one alternative when buying parts.

As an example I looked up my car, a 1999 Escort, on Autozone's website. I was given 5 options for front brake pads. Two were ceramic and one was carbon metallic. The other two were conventional semi-metallic pads. These are the type of pads that have some asbestos content in them, as well as metallic fibers. The asbestos-free (ceramic and carbon-metallic) pads were $29.99-54.99, over twice the cost of the standard semi-metallic pads. For the rear I was given two options, both of them organic shoes with the only difference between the two being the manufacturer. These types of shoes are also lined with asbestos-containing compounds.

I'm not saying that there aren't asbestos-free parts out there. I'm just saying that there are also still asbestos-containing parts out there that are much cheaper and sell in much higher quantities because of lower prices.







09:f9:11:02:9d:74:e3:5b:d8:41:56:c5:63

Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:40 PM
i guess there is still some stuff out there....i dont take the cheap way out when it comes to car repairs....you get what you paid for



2007 GM Tuner Bash...HELL YEA
PA,MD,NJ,DE,NY and all states north caravan
Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:46 PM
Boardorgohome(loves NC again) wrote:i guess there is still some stuff out there....i dont take the cheap way out when it comes to car repairs....you get what you paid for
I agree 110%...buy the $10 brake pads if stopping is worth $10.

But, in large numbers, the general public disagrees. When I worked for a local auto parts company, we would stock like 10 of the cheap brakes for every one or two of the "good ones" because that's the way they sold.







09:f9:11:02:9d:74:e3:5b:d8:41:56:c5:63


Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:59 PM
Are you sure they still have asbestos? I thought asbestos was banned altogether. I think you are wrong! I am calling you out. Prove that they still contain asbestos!

By the way I remember a while back you saying people need to check their attitude when they log in. Same goes for you. Lead by example. Calling others a Moron is immature even if they are. If you do not have anything constructive to say, then do not say anything.


FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:16 PM
ANYWAYS.....

the problem is Jimmy that the world revolves around money....if joe can save 40 bucks on his brake job he will....thats how 9/10ths of the world thinks



2007 GM Tuner Bash...HELL YEA
PA,MD,NJ,DE,NY and all states north caravan
Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:21 PM
I guess I should have stopped huffing the dust cause it gave me a buzz, dang! Well, that'll teach me for wantin a quick high!


Team GREEN
Suspension Division - "Handling Before Horsepower"
Making the turns since 1999
1998 EK Civic Hatch - Yes, it's a Honda.

Re: AUTO REPAIR HEALTH RISKS! PLEASE READ!
Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:28 PM
Most of the organic compounds used in brake pads are vermiculite or some derivative thereof. Chrysotile ("Canadian asbestos"), tremolite and actinolite are also commonly used. All three are forms of asbestos.

Vermiculite is a naturally occuring substance that is a source of all forms of asbestos. If you want to get more information on the damage that vermiculite can do, Google "Libby, Montana vermiculite" or "W. R. Grace libby".

THESE are the materials that are being used in brake pads and clutches today. Vermiculite is as dangerous to your health as asbestos, but is still used as filler. Since it technically "isn't asbestos" those parts can still be called "asbestos free". Some "asbestos free" parts, however, do still contain small amounts of some forms of asbestos fibers, like tremolite and actinolite.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone...I'm trying to say that contrary to popular belief the compounds used to manufacture these parts is still dangerous. The "EPA ban" on asbestos was LIFTED two years after it was passed because of a court challenge. With or without the ban though, substances like vermiculite have been shown to be carcinogenic when proper handling and precautions aren't used.

Boardorgohome, I was agreeing with you. You're right that there are asbestos-free products out there. I was just saying that the sad truth is that they sell in much lower numbers because of their price.







09:f9:11:02:9d:74:e3:5b:d8:41:56:c5:63

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