Well...
My 2001 cavalier had the 2200 enigine and was one of the most reliable engine I had. 178 000 km not a dime spent in repairs, only 5000km oil changes.
LOL Wasn't these the same magazine made the funniest one-liner that "Ecotec was the 'small' block of 4cyl?"
Popular hotrod wrote: It's no wonder GM used absolutely no engineering or design from this engine when developing the Ecotec.
Really? Lost foam casting, steel timing chain are two aspect they both share that I can remeber from the top of my head.
Quote:
Lacking in power
120HP/130 ftlbs, how many base engine, econoboxes had more power in 1994? Not that many.
Quote:
The little Chevy engine never matched the reliability of the competing Ford Pinto and was replaced by a version of the 1962 Pontiac four-cylinder renamed the "Iron Duke." For 1976, the car featured a 60,000-mile warranty to try and erase the stigma of poor quality attached to the Vega.
The 1976 Vega I initially had 170,000+ one owner miles, before I made the BIGGEST mistake to sell it. It was still running like champ, wih one crank starts.
Conlusion: Popular hotrod should do more research before making absurd & ignorant comments.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Quote:
120HP/130 ftlbs, how many base engine, econoboxes had more power in 1994? Not that many.
The 1993 Geo Storm 1.8 liter motor had 140hp and 125lbs of torque.
Everyone dogs Geo, but in 1990 they held the record on their GSi Storm for the most hp per liter.
I know you said "not that many" and realize the exceptions, but I am bored right now and I always liked how Isuzu had it's connection/ contracts from Lotus and yet people dogged the Geo Storm.
Yes, their 1.6 SOHC blew bad, but their GSi line was affordable, peppy , reliable and had lots of potential as it was a Lotus Elan motor but without the turbo and higher compression pistons. Isuzu was contracted to make the Elan engine for Lotus and they were in turn allowed to use their design and on the Isuzu Impulse it had Lotus suspension on it thanks to Lotus returning the favor to Isuzu.
Isuzu made the motors for the Geo Storm.
Believe it or not, the Storm sold 11:1 to the Cavalier back then and Chevy said we do not want profit scraps from the Storm compared to full profits from the Cavalier. So, they got rid of it in 94. The Storm in other countries was badged the Asuna Sunfire, and they were turbo charged. I still don't get why they didn't just retain the turbo on the GSi Storm or at least had offered it as an option.
2003 Sunfire with 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler, 2 1/4 piping, 2 1/2 inch resonator, a 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter, 2 1/4 inch down-pipe, a ported LSJ manifold, E-bay strut brace, and an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition.
^ i remember my dad did a demo with the SCCA in the early 90's called "Weathering the Storm"....i wanted one sooooo bad when I was 8 hahaha.
Brian
Mike85220 wrote:Quote:
120HP/130 ftlbs, how many base engine, econoboxes had more power in 1994? Not that many.
The 1993 Geo Storm 1.8 liter motor had 140hp and 125lbs of torque.
Everyone dogs Geo, but in 1990 they held the record on their GSi Storm for the most hp per liter.
I know you said "not that many" and realize the exceptions, but I am bored right now and I always liked how Isuzu had it's connection/ contracts from Lotus and yet people dogged the Geo Storm.
What was the rating on the
base model 1.6L engine Geo Storm again?
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:LOL Wasn't these the same magazine made the funniest one-liner that "Ecotec was the 'small' block of 4cyl?"
Popular hotrod wrote: It's no wonder GM used absolutely no engineering or design from this engine when developing the Ecotec.
Really? Lost foam casting, steel timing chain are two aspect they both share that I can remeber from the top of my head.
hey wait you forgot they both have 4 cylinders and 4 spark plugs!
give me a break.. maybe you should remind us all that both engines are made out of metal?
Quote:
Recently replaced by the all-new Ecotec 2.2, this pre-Ecotec inliner was a disaster. Lacking in power, unreliable, and hungry for head gaskets, the anemic four was offered in many GM front-drivers (like the Beretta and Cavalier), and the popular line of Chevy S-10/GMC S-15 pickups. Press reviews at the time recommended against backing these engines with automatic transmissions, especially in the pickups. With pathetic power and unreliable durability, what could be worse? A series of steel freeze plugs were also known to corrode, providing a messy time bomb that could go off at almost any mileage reading past 50,000. It's no wonder GM used absolutely no engineering or design from this engine when developing the Ecotec. We think GM should offer Ecotec upgrades to all owners of these pathetic mills, but alas, the designs have so much variance between them, swaps are no easy task. Too bad.
QFT
I know, it hurts for most of you but they hit the nail on the head.
denial is not just a river in egypt.
We're still talking about this?
I think we got it the first time when the sky thundered, lightning struck, and PJ claimed "all peasants with 2.2's non-Ecotec bow before me and my bastard Ecotec combination in which I've set out to dominate all with!".
Did we not?
Quote:
What was the rating on the base model 1.6L engine Geo Storm again?
It was a 1.6 SOHC 12 valve motor that had 95hp.
The base model blew.
But... Some people would take the older Isuzu Impulse SOHC turbo off and install it onto their 1.6 SOHC and got about 140hp. Still lame, but it was a junkyard turbo kit that costed people about $500 to upgrade if they were mechanically savvy.
2003 Sunfire with 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler, 2 1/4 piping, 2 1/2 inch resonator, a 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter, 2 1/4 inch down-pipe, a ported LSJ manifold, E-bay strut brace, and an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition.
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:LOL Wasn't these the same magazine made the funniest one-liner that "Ecotec was the 'small' block of 4cyl?"
Popular hotrod wrote: It's no wonder GM used absolutely no engineering or design from this engine when developing the Ecotec.
Really? Lost foam casting, steel timing chain are two aspect they both share that I can remember from the top of my head.
hey wait you forgot they both have 4 cylinders and 4 spark plugs!
give me a break.. maybe you should remind us all that both engines are made out of metal?
They could of used a basic casting for the head right? They could have used a timing belt like the original GM's Ecotec, right? But little did you know the Ecotec is a mix of GM's 4cyl and put together.
I know it hurts because it doesn't help your cause of "hating," but exposure to some BS print needs to be done. If one argues, atleast bring facts to the table, and well... this article didn't.
Mike85220 wrote:Quote:
What was the rating on the base model 1.6L engine Geo Storm again?
It was a 1.6 SOHC 12 valve motor that had 95hp.
The base model blew.
But... Some people would take the older Isuzu Impulse SOHC turbo off and install it onto their 1.6 SOHC and got about 140hp. Still lame, but it was a junkyard turbo kit that costed people about $500 to upgrade if they were mechanically savvy.
So my point still is valid the 2.2L was not to shabby for a base engine in those time.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Joe Schulte wrote:We're still talking about this?
I think we got it the first time when the sky thundered, lightning struck, and PJ claimed "all peasants with 2.2's non-Ecotec bow before me and my bastard Ecotec combination in which I've set out to dominate all with!".
Did we not?
na, I don't think it was that epic
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:I know, it hurts for most of you but they hit the nail on the head.
denial is not just a river in egypt.
Ignorance is bliss especially when a magazine agrees with ya lol
I respected your J knowledge until you went ape@!#$ over how the 2200 sucks because of your one bad experience. I guess every engine ever made is crap since all of 'em have had problems
2200/2.2 non-Ecotec FTReliableW
It's a good engine. I've seen some old Cav's with over 450,000kms on them. The 2200 will treat you fine as long as you treat it fine, if you change the oil every 5000 clicks and the coolant every 75,000 there's no reason why it shouldn't last forever. The engines that die are the ones that are beaten up or whose maintenance is ignore. Can't screw around with a 2200, it's sensitive to being ignored and mistreated.
The Ecotec is better, but the 2200 is a nice little workhorse. Besides, even if it does break, it costs less than a grand to find a good replacement.
*shrug* Some of you guys are too young to remember cars from the late 70's that broke no matter how well you took care of them just because carmakers at the time didn't think the public wanted reliable engines. I owned a 1975 Mercury Meteor and I blew the 351M V8 engine TWICE and the FMX transmission once and I don't think I ever put more than 10,000kms on that car. THAT was a piece of crap, not the 2.2 engine.
I love my 2.2 daily driver, it doesnt have enough power for me to want to beat on it, it came in a car that was really really cheap and has never given me any issues at all. I keep up on the maintenance and just enjoy the trouble free, low cost and good fuel mileage that my economy car was built for. It now has about 248K Km on it and always gets better than 30mpg at very minimum.
Not sure on the ecotec as the only experience i have with them is the one i have in my shop that threw the timing chain and bent some valves (at 100k Km/60K Miles)
_
Now with northstar V8, IRS, 20's n 22's
hmmmm....... 138,000 miles...... original motor....... original trans.........
yep..... worst motor ever let me tell ya
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:LOL Wasn't these the same magazine made the funniest one-liner that "Ecotec was the 'small' block of 4cyl?"
Hot Rod Magazine said that in reference to my car on the 2005 Power Tour and it was used my times by tons of magazines since it was GM's line. I've seen it at least 9 other times.
The exact quote from Hot Rod was... "GM keeps telling us their new Ecotech four-cylinder is the small-block Chevy of the future, but no on Power Tour really bought it until they watched Ryne Hoover's little '04 Cavalier blow off a GS 455 Buick -admittedly a pathetic GS 455 - with a 13.63 @ 101MPH."
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
John W(Ranger1316) wrote:DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:I know, it hurts for most of you but they hit the nail on the head.
denial is not just a river in egypt.
Ignorance is bliss especially when a magazine agrees with ya lol
I respected your J knowledge until you went ape@!#$ over how the 2200 sucks because of your one bad experience. I guess every engine ever made is crap since all of 'em have had problems
2200/2.2 non-Ecotec FTReliableW
try as I may to fight the urge to check this thread and bite my tongue, I have to respond to this, and I'm going to keep this as diplomatic as possible and explain where I'm coming from.
ignorance..?
lets get something straight since it seems that so many of you fail to recall my history with this engine, my "one" experience with the OHV is actually "many" over a stretch of 4 years, some of that was pushing the "envelope" with it. But despite that, I've had nothing but bad luck with them, young and old engines alike, daily driver use or racing it, and all problems stemming from the same system.
the skwirl came with a 2200 ohv, remember?
I modified, and worked on that engine for the first 2 years of owning my car. before I modified it at all, I had 2 separate situations arising from overheating. both problems I managed to "fix" on my own. (this occurring over a 3 to 4 month period) even tho both times my efforts were generally a repair job that ended up accomplishing nothing (twice replacing a non-stuck thermostat.. the old units passed the boiling water test both times, yet were replaced with new ones regardless).
the third overheating problem resulted in a warped head. but I stuck with it, had the head cleaned, ported, polished, the valves upgraded, etc etc whatever. once upon a time I was one of the faster all motor OHV here.
i swapped to crane roller rockers and bit into a whole ton of extra trouble with that fiasco. by then I had enough, had a higher paying job and swapped it out for the eco (that thread helping other swaps that followed). And whereas I've been through more ecos than OHV, i'd take them over the latter anyday of the week.
a beater I had recently with the OHV wonderful super-reliable engine in it had burned a chunk of its head off inbetween the #2 and #3 cylinder (compliments of the previous owner). So I went to a yard, and bought another 2200 to swap into it because I needed a car. I had several problems with the engine in 3 months of owning the car which stranded my gf and I on the side of the road twice, myself three times, and ended itself with another fit of overheating.
the thread in which I went "ape@!#$" was because said beater kept having problem after problem. seems I was doing a 2-3 hour repair job on the thing once a week (no exaggeration either) and things were beginning to piss me off. So i vented my frustration in a thread, something we all do, and I get people jumping down my throat and attacking my character... something I never expected to happen especially since I met most of you at the 07 bash.
Regardless, I've since corrected the daily driver problem by selling the OHV beater car, and I'm now driving a 2004 coupe as a daily.
The 'reliability' of the OHV is something that I've never experienced once in my owning of them in two separate cars once being the original skwirl's engine, and more recently in the beater that managed to survive summer.
I'm not the first to make a vent/rant thread on this forum, but it seems a few of you decided to paint me as an "ignorant bigot" and I admit, while my demeanor in the performance/racing/and boost sections is rather pompous, it stems from bloody knuckles, late nights and first hand experience.
anyway, having said all that I'll drop the 2200 crap seeing as everyone thinks I'm a narcissistic ego-maniac that does nothing but badmouth.. even tho I highly respect fetter, wenzel (even tho he busts my balls all the time in his posts without my knowledge), team GREEN, dan (yellow intake mani 2200), ryan (cavattack... YES a 2200 that I respect! and there's more than one of them too), Jazer, DTP, boltz, and lots more.
I had a fine experience with a 2.2 in my 96..... Peppy in comparison to any civic in its time (as long as it was mated with a 4spd Auto, or a lovely stick. My 2.4 HAS BEEN equally a gentlemen like my first GM product, not a single hiccup from the day I got it. ( AND ! it is still running great in its new vehicle !)
My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"
2200s are real sensitive to maintenance and their coolant gets extremely acidic over time. Change those religiously and you should have no problems. But that's no guarantee, sometimes a dealership can get a string of consecutive lemons because all the cars/engines/whatever were built one after the other on the assembly line by the new guy.
Up until now though (crosses fingers) all is well.
every car with the 2200 i had ran like a champ. My fiance's dad has 320000 miles on his 2.2 ohv s15 sonoma... manual doesnt burn oil absolutely nothing wrong, only thing he's replaced is a clutch and TOB.
our friend has one with 160,000 miles on it and nothing yet...
LE61T PTE6262 Powered 
If the body on my old OHV was in as good of shape as the engine I would still have it, however i am loving the Ecotec.
230K 5 sp worst thing that happened was the tensioner broke while i was on the interstate. since i couldn't get it off ttheroad fast enough it blew the head gasket. everything else was fine. had the head checked, no damage done, put in the new gasket and tension er and it was good to go.
mr. Goodwrench, they could have used a timing belt like the original gms ecotec i thought all ecotec engines had a timing chain and not a belt.
Mr. Goodwrench GT wrote: Really? Lost foam casting, steel timing chain are two aspect they both share that I can remeber from the top of my head.
I may be wrong, but I didn't think the 2.2 OHV used lost foam casting.
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
