I just bought a 2003 Z24 that was purchased new at Reedman Chevrolet in PA. It was never in Canada, it's not a clone, it's not a z-type.
VIN 1G1JH12F737345552
Is this a really rare car? I am putting an ecotec crate (GM Goodwrench) motor in it then selling it. It's red, sunroof, black interior, z24 headrests and badges, chrome exhaust, etc. It has the H code in the 5th position - Z24.
What is this car worth? It has 94k miles, and is perfectly straight in good condition, I got it with a broken timing chain guide, so I'm gonna put a crate motor in it, to eliminate any questions about the motor.
Your opinions are appreciated - pictures soon.
Jim
Im going to guess that the car was originally going to go to canada but the customer who ordered it cancelled. KBB says if its in excellent shape, 5700 bucks
If it's got an F in the 8th position... which means an Ecotec... then it's an LS Sport, not a Z24. The Z24 moniker died with the end of the 2.4L engine.
5th position F = Z24, H = LS Sport.
But that said... many places get it wrong still... like parts stores.. insurance... etc..
John,
The F means it's an ecotec, yes (without egr BTW, a 6 would mean with EGR). But the 4thposition denotes platform and 5th denotes series (H= z24). These cars were built in 03 just not sold in the US. ALL 03 cavaliers had the ecotec.
Being an ecotec does not mean it isn't a z (technically). How people
feel about that is a different story.
Check it out
GM WIKI VIN
Thanks for your input.
Jim
John Lenko wrote:If it's got an F in the 8th position... which means an Ecotec... then it's an LS Sport, not a Z24. The Z24 moniker died with the end of the 2.4L engine.
5th position F = Z24, H = LS Sport.
But that said... many places get it wrong still... like parts stores.. insurance... etc..
John....I think Jim is correct on this one....
Click Here for 2003 GM Vin Decoder...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, May 05, 2010 5:40 AM
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
so is there pictures of this thing with a 2.4l motor in it or no?
It's a 2.2 ecotec.
Pictures soon.
5th number in vin determines model... H = Z24
The start of my vin is 1G1JH
a fellow member on here who lives in philly has a 03 z24 that he bought brand new
z28guy(KGM BEOTCH)
I think they just ran the badges out... I've seen tons with either the Z Type, or the Z24, or nothing and the LS wherever up here in Canada, haha, but my husband and I just figured they had a few boxes of badges to get rid of.
Not this @!#$ again...
Good work on the theoretical VIN decoding!! but you don't have the experience with these cars that I do, sorry to say.
Jim Roberts wrote:without egr BTW, a 6 would mean with EGR
There are no J-body cars 03-05 with Ecotec and EGR.
Jim Roberts wrote:Being an ecotec does not mean it isn't a z (technically). How people feel about that is a different story.
Who gives a crap about how people FEEL about a car? The company that makes them, GM, says a 2002, 2003, 2004 or 2005 IN THE USA with an Ecotec is not a Z24. It's an LS Sport. Go look up a sales brochure or an order book and get back to me.
Wikipedia is written by regular people, who get stuff wrong all the time. Note that they say "F" is a regular Cavalier. That is wrong. For 95-02 "F" was the Z24. Not the case in 03-05.
Now.. for those of us in Canada.. the following does NOT apply:
All Ecotec'ed top-optioned 02-05 Cavaliers in the USA ONLY were called LS Sports. This is according to GM, who makes them. You can disagree with them all you want, but you're the one who is wrong. There is no 2003, 2004 or 2005 Z24 anything in the US of A.
Now.. for those of you in Canada... like me...
We still had the good ol' Z24... because it didn't really mean anything to do with the SIZE of the engine (2.4L was just a coincidence). That "VL Sport" was an appearance package for the 03-05 model years, which replaced the Z24 appearance package that was available in 2002. Kinda like the Z22, but more official as it was an actual package not an assortment of dealer rice.
If you don't believe me... go look up some of the sales brochures.
BTW, your car is one of 100,960 Cavalier 2-doors built for the 2003 model year.
85,615 of them have the same 1SZ package yours does.
75,217 of them are automatics like yours.
48,821 of them have the same 1SA package as well.
30,803 of them have the graphite interior color.
28,733 have the sunroof option.
15,711 of them have the Chrome 16x6 wheels.
14,016 of them are Victory Red.
Which makes for 1,214 2003 Cavaliers with similar options to yours... roughly 1.2% of all Cavaliers made that year look just like yours. Aside from the dealer-added Z24 headrests (that didn't come from the factory..). Just like 99.9% of all Cavaliers out there... it's not rare at all.
Why all of the hostility?
Before you tell me what an expert you are, based on your extensive library of sales brochures. Take a look at the following
GM DECODER 2003
I asked what this car might be worth, and IF it is rare. I stated what I understood to be true, hoping for some facts about this car. I really appreciate your vast experience with these cars - perhaps you could tell me what in the VIN or RPO codes I should look for that makes it an American Car or a Canadian Car?
Am I understanding you correctly -In 2003 they made an Ecotec Z24 for Canada but not the US (that's an LS Sport.) ? Or are you saying the Canadian cars had a 2.4 in 2003?
In addition, I was not aware there were no J body cars with EGR, but as a point of fact, there are egr equipped ecotec cars ( saturns, aleros, etc) that have an ENGINE code of 6 (L42) versus the ENGINE code F (L61) for the j cars. While looking for the crate engine, I was repeatedly asked for the engine code. That is how the vin codes break down, so I included it in case it was relevant to my original question.
Since wikipedia is written by "regular people" (whatever that means), explain the GM link above.
After 2002, there was no more 2.4 (until the 2.4 ecotec but thats a totally different motor)
2003-2005 Cavi's in the states had and LS sport package, while in canada the Z24 package was still available
The ecotec in your car is a L61 2.2
No its not rare, you will get 5k tops if its in mint condition, and with 90,000miles (150,000km) i dont you will get that much
VIN decoders arent 100% correct either, I just ran my vin on one site and it said i had a 4spd auto ls sport, and another site said 5spd z24
Thanks Dan.
That's the help I was looking for.
Daniel Thissen wrote:http://service.gm.com/dealerworld/vincards/pdf/vincard03.pdf
ps is there an edit button??
If you go premium yes
M62, 42's, ZZP 3", ZZP S3 H/E
214whp 190wtq
Jim Roberts wrote:Why all of the hostility?
Sorry, I tend to come off a little strong when I'm trying to correct misinformation. There's too much of it going around this place. And add to that, everyone seems to use the General forum as a dumping grounds, and it's way beyond need of a clean up. And asking what their car is worth (there's a whole sticky devoted to that). We're an international forum... and what your car might sell for where you live is going to be different than what it would sell for where I live.
Jim Roberts wrote:Take a look at the following
GM DECODER 2003
That VIN card only applies to the 03 model year. Every year changes a bit. As well.. you might want to read the fine print: "The information shown is correct at time of printing, but may be changed during model year." The Z24 (in the USA) was no longer after that was printed.
The GM media archives are a much better source of information, on the Z24 demise and LS Sport intro:
2002, the switch year:
http://archives.media.gm.com/division/chevrolet/products/cars/02chevrolet/cavalier.html#lineup
2003, the first year of no Z24 in the USA:
http://archives.media.gm.com/division/2003_prodinfo/03_chevrolet/03_cavalier/index.html
Jim Roberts wrote:tell me what in the VIN or RPO codes I should look for that makes it an American Car or a Canadian Car?
The RPO code for a Canadian car is Z49. You car does not have it (I already looked it up). Nothing in the VIN itself will differentiate whether it is a Canadian or US car, you need to look up the RPO codes based on the VIN. The easiest way to tell (if it hasn't been changed) is the cluster... If it goes to 220 km/h on the outside, it's a Canadian car.. if it's 110 MPH.. US car. Or the build sticker on the driver's door frame: if it's a Canadian car, it'll have a Maple Leaf logo in one corner.
Jim Roberts wrote:Am I understanding you correctly -In 2003 they made an Ecotec Z24 for Canada but not the US (that's an LS Sport.) ? Or are you saying the Canadian cars had a 2.4 in 2003?
All 2003-05 J-body cars had the Ecotec engine. No others. But.... according to the order book I had, the Twin Cam 2.4L was an order-able option for the first bit of the 2003 model year, but none were ordered and therefore none were built.
The models between the two countries are totally different... we had a VL, VLX and Z24 (both coupe & sedan models) here in Canada. The VL coupe could be had with a Z-Type appearance package, so under the Z24 appearance was a base model car with a few options, including 15" alloy wheels. The US had a Cavalier (base model), LS and LS Sport (again, both coupe & sedan models). The base model coupes & sedans could be had with a Sport Appearance Package with 16" alloy wheels... so there ya go, just to make things even more confusing, the available appearance packages were different too. And that's not even getting into the models that were exported to countries like Mexico, Venezuela or the Middle East. There were some neat projector headlights available on the 03-05 Cavaliers in the Middle East, in case you're wondering...
Jim Roberts wrote:Since wikipedia is written by "regular people" (whatever that means), explain the GM link above.
As I posted above... read the fine print.
Also, from Wikipedia's About page:
Wikipedia wrote:Wikipedia is written collaboratively by largely anonymous Internet volunteers who write without pay. Anyone with Internet access can write and make changes to Wikipedia articles.
Anyone can write an article.. that doesn't mean it's factually correct. And not everyone checking what's submitted is knowledgeable about what they're checking to begin with. There is plenty of wrong stuff on there if you're willing to look for it. I mean.. if you took some of the info from this thread, and used that to update the Cavalier page... it would then be wrong
or at least, exclusive to the 2003 model year only...
John.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, May 06, 2010 12:45 AM
Ok, those VIN cards are screwed. I just checked the 04 and 05... they all say Z24. No mention of LS Sport anywhere.. but it could be just to differentiate between the base and uplevel model.... sigh, stupid GM.. one department doesn't know what the other is doing...
