Ok guys (and gals) I've got a starter problem that I've never experienced before. Any input would be GREATLY appreciated.
The Patient: My wife's 1996 Cavalier, automatic, 2.2L engine, 106,000 miles on it.
Symptoms: Car would not start. Starter was clearly (could hear it) engaging but was not working properly (bad grinding sound, didn't sound healthy).
Treatment: I pulled the starter, had it tested and it partially worked but did not sound good (sounded like a bearing was trying to seize) and I decided to just replace it. So I bought a new reman at Advance and took it home. Get it installed, hook everything up, turn the key nothing happens. I check connections, realize that the main post/terminal on the starter is broken. Return starter to Advance (clerk tells me "...that happens sometimes, oh well...") they replace it. I install 2nd new starter, but get same symptoms. Nothing when I turn the key, no clicking (like if the battery was dead) just nothing at all. I pulled this starter, too and had it checked and it checked out just fine. I've re-installed the starter again and still getting the same result.
Using a tester, I've confirmed that the starter is getting full power from the battery; it just seems that the circuit that should close and trigger the solenoid is not working when I turn the key. I'm confident that I have hooked up the wires right, but just in case:
3 wires (1 to positive terminal on battery, 1 appears to go to main wiring harness, 1 goes to harness that comes from an apparent relay mounted near the battery above the radiator) go to the "main" post on the starter.
1 wire goes to the smaller "S" terminal, this wire comes from the harness that connects to the relay mentioned above.
1 wire (apparently a ground) that is currently mounted to screw on the starter, but not exactly the way it was on the OEM starter) However I attached it the same way and that made no difference.
I've checked all the fuses that I can find, they all check out ok. Battery is fully charged and checks out ok. This car has apparently not had the recall related to the ignition performed on it (I'll confirm that tomorrow). Does anyone have any suggestions, or am I just going to have to take it to the -gulp-dealer? Any help/suggestions will be GREATLY appreciated!
Thanks,
Stephen
The ignition recall added a relay to reduce the amperage passing through the ignition switch.
You will notice, in the recall, that the ignition switch would be replaced if it was found to have damaged/arced contacts.
I suspect this is what may have happened to yours, so you have a high resistance in the circuit to the solenoid "S" terminal.
If the recall HAS been done you could have a bad relay/relay base or wiring to or from it.
The wolfsburgwest link has a good diagram of this sort of modification, there they call it a "Hard to Start" relay.
It is the last diagram on the page.
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wired/wired_03_01/wired_03_01.ht
Recall Date:
JAN 27, 2004
Summary:
ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES. IF THE ENGINE FAILS TO START AND THE DRIVER HOLDS THE KEY IN THE "START" POSITION FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD, HIGH CURRENT FLOWS THROUGH THE IGNITION SWITCH, AND SOMETIMES PRODUCES ENOUGH HEAT TO MELT INTERNAL SWITCH PARTS.
Consequence:
IF THE SWITCH IS DAMAGED, A FIRE COULD OCCUR IN THE STEERING COLUMN, EVEN WITH THE ENGINE OFF AND THE KEY REMOVED. THE FIRE COULD SPREAD TO THE INTERIOR OF THE CAR, WHICH COULD INJURE OCCUPANTS OR CAUSE DAMAGE TO ADJOINING STRUCTURES.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL INSTALL A RELAY KIT IN THESE VEHICLES TO PREVENT HIGH CURRENT FROM FLOWING THROUGH THE IGNITION SWITCH, AND CHECK THAT YOUR CAR WILL START WITH A PROPERLY CHARGED BATTERY AND, IF NECESSARY, REPLACE THE IGNITION SWITCH. OWNER NOTIFICATION WILL BEGIN ON MARCH 1, 2004. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT CHEVROLET AT 1-800-630-2438, PONTIAC AT 1-800-620-7668, BUICK AT 1-866-608-8080, OR OLDSMOBILE AT 1-800-630-6537. CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CHECK THEIR VEHICLE ONLINE BY GOING TO WWW.MYGMLINK.COM AND ENTERING THE VEHICLE'S IDENTIFICATION NUMBER.
Potential Units Affected:
1415231
Hope this helps
Alont
OK here is an update, I've been travelling extensively for work the last few weeks so I haven't had much chance to work on her car.
Dealer claims her car is not covered by the recall, however I'm going to try and confirm that myself (she might have written the VIN down wrong when she called them). I replaced the relay that is mounted near the battery, unfortunately no effect. I'm at a complete loss on what could be the problem, however, is there a possiblity that with a code reader some problem that I haven't thought of could be the culprit? I'm looking for anything to try before I have to take it to the shop and spend who knows how much money to fix it.
Any suggestions/replies will be GREATLY appreciated!
Stephen
I'm currently having problems with the recall relay.... and I am about to remove the relay, as I suspect it's the root of my problems.
Back in June, I swapped the trans out for a 5 speed, did a bunch of other work at the same time.... I replaced the engine harness with one from a 5 speed car, that had the recall relay on it. Then began my problems...
The first night, the car started itself. Well, not really "started"... the starter engaged, and being in third gear, the car pushed itself thru the garage door
Never did find the cause (at the time).
I parked the car from October to January. Only drove it once to a car show in November, and it was fine. But when I went to move the car to my new place (I moved at the end of January), it wouldn't start. I thought the clutch switch was bad and kept hitting it until the car started.
Since then, it's been ok... but every once in a while it would not start... so I'd do the same thing.... hold the key in "start" and keep pushing the clutch until it would start. I could hear the relay under the hood clicking, but it still wouldn't start.
Now today, very weird problem.... I started the car (after a few tries) and it sound like HELL!! I popped the hood (with the car still running) and it sounded like my supercharger was grinding itself to @!#$. So, I quickly shut off the car, but the starter motor was still running!!! I couldn't get it to shut off, so I pulled off the battery cable. As soon as I reconnected the wire, the starter engaged again.
I'm pretty sure my relay is shot. I hate it... never had a problem til this stupid relay!!!
ok as stupid as this may seem, try it.
all that cranking over of your engine, has probably drained your battery. when i was doing my girlfriends moms car (98 Neon), my boss told me to throw some cables on it when i got home.
by the time i did, she had it towed to a garage, where they found that the positive terminal, bracket i guess (the thing that grabs the top post, i cant think of the word at the moment) needed to be replaced and it sparked fine.
try diagnossing that first.
Injection is nice but id rather be BLOWN!
I replaced the starter recall relay, and it's doing fine today.
I have an optima yellow top... it's definitely not even close to being drained
Little tid bits before you tow it to the dealer: 1# Make sure the battery is fully charged. #2 if the starter motor doesn't turn at all make sure the car is in park or neutral. #3 Make sure the cables both at the battery and the the starter are clean (the ground is on metal not paint/rust) and are tight! # 4 If the switch is actuated, but the starter motor doesn't operate at all but the solenoid clicks then the problem lies with ether the battery, the main solenoid contacts or the starter motor itself (or the engine is sezied) # 5 if the solenoid can't be heard at all the battery is bad, the fuseable link is burned (the circuit is open) or the solenoid is defective ...To check the solenoid connect a jumper wire between the battery (+) and the ignition switch wire terminal (The small terminal) on the solenoid. If the starter now operates the solenoid is ok. And the problem is in the ignition switch, neutral start switch,or the wiring.
above post.....battery terminal post clamps? lol
Anyways i'd try that first before having to pay a tow bill and diagnosic bill at the dealer just to find out it's a misplaced wire....hope it helps
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/4235/jim25ek.jpg
