Well after putting some serious $'s into this '99 Z22 I am at a loss Err!
Car runs fine once started, but often enough the car will crank but it just will not fire up and I have to quite often use the gas pedal to "assist" starting.
Here's what has been done thus far with all new AC Delco parts:
Fuel Pump (complete assembly), Fuel Filter, Spark Plugs, Wires, Battery, Fuel Regulator.
Checked ignition module and coils, fuel pressure (at motor), everything is good. There is no CEL at all for guidance
Someone has mentioned crankshaft sensor, which may not trigger the CEL? I tried removing it from the motor but its "stuck" in there good and if I try putting more "effort" into removing it I am sure it will snap off at the motor! Eek! Any suggestions? Someone said put it out from the inside after removing the oil pan but that seems like alot of effort for a simple sensor?!
I have checked coolant temp sensor, IAT sensor and they seem ok.
Could an O2 sensor cause this issue? Below I took a snapshot of the motor cold with outside temperature around -1C
Coolant Temp= 0C
Intake Air Temp= -1C
Intake Manifold Pressure= 101 Kpha(?)
02 Bank 1 Sensor 1= 0.44V
Ignition Timing Cylinder 1= Advanced 10 degrees
These figures sound normal?
Sorry for all the questions and info but I figured I have fooled around with this car so much I should put all my findings in here
Thanks,
J
Sounds like a leaking fuel injector. Try some new o-rings and if that fails you will have to replace the injectors. You can get the o-rings at any dealership pretty cheap.
I have the same problem and it started after replacing an injector that was leaking externally onto the intake. I put the old injector back in once and it started perfectly (but tried to kill me with gas fumes and the possibility of fire!) DON'T BUY AUTOZONE INJECTORS!
If it sits overnight, the leaked fuel all evaporates so it starts fine. If I re-start within a few minutes of shutting it off is hasn't leaked enough to cause a rich situation. Anywhere in between and I have to press the pedal to the floor.
You don't have to pump the pedal. If it doesn't start just push the pedal to the floor and it will clear the extra fuel and start right up. It will idle crappy for a few seconds then smoothe out.
2.2 97 Cavalier......the "Crapalier"
Also I am asuming youre car is hard to while its cold?. If so Ive got a few things for u to trouble shoot through,
1. Check battery connections makes sure no corrosion on terminals, Battery is fully charged 12.5 volts, & charging the battery while idling @ 13.5 - 14.5 volts.
2. Fuel system could have a malfunctioning. As listed leaky, Broken fuel injectors. Possibly cracked wiring. Clogged fuel filter.
3. The coolant temperature sensor or intake air temperature sensor could be faulty.
4. Also think you have checked a possibly faulty ignition system, Wires / plugs / coil packs wiring?.
Also people have told me getting pressure test done on the fuel pump may even be a good thing to do, Also get the fuel pressure regulator tested as well.
Good Luck.
Masin tenn wrote:Sounds like a leaking fuel injector. Try some new o-rings and if that fails you will have to replace the injectors. You can get the o-rings at any dealership pretty cheap.
I have the same problem and it started after replacing an injector that was leaking externally onto the intake. I put the old injector back in once and it started perfectly (but tried to kill me with gas fumes and the possibility of fire!) DON'T BUY AUTOZONE INJECTORS!
If it sits overnight, the leaked fuel all evaporates so it starts fine. If I re-start within a few minutes of shutting it off is hasn't leaked enough to cause a rich situation. Anywhere in between and I have to press the pedal to the floor.
You don't have to pump the pedal. If it doesn't start just push the pedal to the floor and it will clear the extra fuel and start right up. It will idle crappy for a few seconds then smoothe out.
Hmm, this sounds very similiar to my issue! With my issue its the car starts fine when parked overnight, but after around 20-30 mins of sitting after being driven, this starting issue seems to occur more often than not. Are the injectors easy to replace or do you need some special GM tool to remove them or the clips? I have a '99 so it a 2200.
J
The last post I forgot to remove the /quote command so MY comments are after the "*"
J
They're pretty easy, but be careful to get the o-rings seated properly. You'll want to oil them a little.
2.2 97 Cavalier......the "Crapalier"
Any special tools required? I know that for me to disconnect the fuel line at the motor I needed a special tool to do that (way back when).
J
You will need a torx to remove the metal bracket but I don't remember the size. You don't have to remove the fuel line.
2.2 97 Cavalier......the "Crapalier"
Masin tenn wrote:You will need a torx to remove the metal bracket but I don't remember the size. You don't have to remove the fuel line.
So all I need to do is remove the fuel rail then the injectors should pull out? Seems way to easy but I am obviously missing something here
J
You don't even have to remove the fuel rail. You can just remove the throttle body and plug wires then the injector bracket. Once that's done you can use a screwdriver to carefully pop each injector out.
2.2 97 Cavalier......the "Crapalier"
Masin tenn wrote:http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c1528003cefa
Nice! Thanks for the link! I wonder if I should replace all the o-rings and see if that fixes the issue or once I am in there can I visually see which injector may be the culprit?
J
Start by replacing the o-rings. I doubt you'll be able to tell which one is your problem, but you might get lucky!
I believe my problem is that the "new" injector doesn't close all the way when the car is off and there isn't any visible damage. I'm going to replace it again someday, but since it doesn't affect driveability it's at the bottom of the list!
2.2 97 Cavalier......the "Crapalier"
Cool. I read some of the tutorial on the injector replacement procedure and they mention removing the fuel rail to gain access to the fuel injector. They mention needing a special tool to remove the quick disconnect fuel lines? Sounds awfully weird from what you explained thus far, maybe they are too in-depth?
Are the o-rings available at the dealer? I would think so but you never know they may want to sell me a new injector
J
Maybe I'm skimming too fast, but they say to remove the fuel pressure regulator to relieve pressure. I don't see anything about removing the rail although that would be a great way to identify exactly which injector is leaking.
Since your fuel pressure is leaking down anyway, as long as you didn't just shut down the engine you don't need to remove the regulator. But I wouldn't suggest smoking while doing this job!
You can get the o-rings at a dealership and they're pretty cheap.
2.2 97 Cavalier......the "Crapalier"
Hmm, this is for a '99 2.2L under removing fuel injectors section:
Properly relieve the fuel system pressure.
Disconnect the negative battery cable.
Remove the air cleaner outlet resonator.
Remove the fuel rail as outlined in this Section.
Remove the fuel injector retaining clip and remove the injector from the fuel rail.
Good to know the "stealer" isn't going to ream me too much on the o-rings! Hehe.
J
Is that from the link I posted? I don't see it.
Regardless, on these bottom feed injectors you don't have to remove the fuel rail. It's really not even a fuel rail! It's just part of the lower intake assembly. The pictures show the process pretty well.
I'm out for the night.....later
2.2 97 Cavalier......the "Crapalier"
I may be confused, but those instructions are for the 2.3 and 2.4. I thought you had a 2.2.
2.2 97 Cavalier......the "Crapalier"
I used whatever the instructions were and got the o-rings all replaced. Sad thing, no change in the original issue! Argh!!
Coincidently not an hour later the alternator croaked, so I had to foot the bill for that now too. Bad luck eh?
So I am going to get the stubborn crankshaft sensor replaced by a local shop and see how that pans out. I am almost starting to think if the crankshaft sensor does not work either could it be my PCM is defective? I did clean the PCM terminals with electrical cleaner very well, and the used silicone on the outside of the connectors when I put them back into the PCM to prevent any moisture from getting in there.
J
If it runs fine but you have to depress the gas pedal to start it I don't think it's the crankshaft sensor or PCM. I still think it's an injector leaking when you shut off the car. I put the old injector back in mine once and it started perfect. I plan on replacing this injector with a factory one someday, but since it's doesn't affect how it runs it is at the bottom of the list.
2.2 97 Cavalier......the "Crapalier"
Well I had the dealer take an in depth look into the issue and all sensors are verified as being ok. I asked them about the leaking injector and they said it was not common that they had issues with injectors typically but they would have to remove the injectors and have them sent out to test them if I wanted that done, which was not really cheap. Is there someway to troubleshoot a leaking injector somehow myself? The dealer has essentially put forth that they there best "guess" is the PCM. The PCM fopr example does not seem to recall codes that were previously stored for example which leads them to beleive there is something odd going on with the unit.
J
You could check for a leaking injector by pulling the lower intake off after shutting off the car. That "should" let you identify which injector is leaking. Of course, that would be a PITA.
You could also try swapping in a new injector into each location. But that wouldn't help if you have more than one injector leaking.
2.2 97 Cavalier......the "Crapalier"
I wonder if I pull out all the injectors again if there is some kindof shop that deals with injectors that could test them for leaking out of the car? I know I can get this done for my diesel injectors, not sure about gas injectors but I will check into it as it would eliminate swapping one by one. Also like you said if more than one is leaking, it could take awhile
J
Coolant temp sensor has been replaced anyways*