Well after having my sticker overdue and already have recieved a $100+ ticket (both my fault) I managed to get a day off work today to get the car e-tested and sticker renewed. It's a 2002 sunfire gt, with a 2.2 gm s/c installed and flashed ecotec.
I went into the test without any worries. I keep my car up to date pretty well.
- Oil changed day before (always used synthetic) and on time ALWAYS
- Spark plugs done @ 100k (now at 149k)
- New air filter (done 5k ago)
- Complete new exhaust header back (including brand new cat, and o2 sensor) done @ 105k
- Coolant changed 5k ago.
Anyway I don't have the results with me now (car is at dealership getting gauges finished, fuel filter, and tranny fluid changed) but my NO ppm was at around 3000, where the pass was a 500 if i remember correctly. and I failed one other thing aswell can't remember exactly. My motor only has 149k on it, and it's basicly almost ALL highway kilometers. I bought it with 81000k in the spring now from driving 133k each way to work everyday im sitting at 149k. I figured with all these kilometers being highway and my new exhaust, plus the extra little thing's ive done, that i'd pass no problem.
I even went to two diffrent facilities in town to get it re-tested but the results were almost identical. I warmed up the car for 5 minutes before dirving, then drove it around the outside of town for 10 minutes before bringing it in, he even took it in right away so it didn't have time to cool down. I run 91 octane fuel also.
Sorry if it's a little jumbled (had a bad day, some guy hit me in the rear of my car today too) but i don't know why I couldn't pass. @!#$ even older cars that look like peices of junk can pass. Anyone have any idea's or similar problems? the only thing I can think of would be my front o2 sensor because the back one had to be done but the front hasn't. Am I @!#$ out of luck or will i just have to depend on their diagnoses when i get another day off in the future?
post up all the test results, it will give a more clear picture of what is going on.
also, what type of test, standard tail pipe sniffer, or dyno.
I am assuming not a computer test if they gave you a gas analysis.
Thanks for the quick reply john. I'm still waiting on the car before i can get ya the results but the 1st test i didn't see, i assume it was a tail pipe sniffer. And the 2nd im pretty sure was a dyno, i could hear the car giving er, didnt know what it was at the time but a dyno makes sense. PS: Do you think that same dyno be used to check hp/tq? Or better yet, what is that dyno for? just e-tests?
E-test dyno's are used to put the motor under an actual load, this gives a more accurate reading for things like NOx emissions etc.
In a standard sniffer there is an idle test, and a raised RPM test, where the car is rev-ed usually between 2000-3500rpm. If the readings some back unusual, they usually do a "warm up" where you rev the car in that RPM range for 3 minutes to warm the engine up, and then re-test.
This could have been what you heard as well.
The dynos used for E-testing do not have the capability of measuring HP.
Although they are usually made by companies that do make that type of dyno.
shane,
Every part you listed you replaced above, were they all OEM parts?
I have seen many many cars fail emissions because they are too modifed. I have seen cars with high flow cats, larger exhaust pipes, ECU programming, etc installed and the car will fail, usually on NOX
why you ask?
Because you have changed the stock make up of the car......
Emissions are solely based on Stock OEM information, they don't stray from anything and they don't handle modifications well at all.
The point is to control emissions not make them worse.
Now, if you didn't use OEM parts that is you problem i'll bet, there is a question the inspector gets asked "is this a grey market, hot rod, kit or rebuild?" and they have to answer yes or no.
If you don't have Proof it's a "hot rod" in some form of registration or documentation then the inspector will put the car through as a regular stock GT sunfire. The shop must show documentation to the government if they answer yes to that question, otherwise they will get fined money.
If the customer can't provide the correct documentation then your SOL when it fails. They don't care as when it comes to emissions, modifed cars don't count.
the fact that you had it tested a few more places confirms that it's either your mods causing the fail or you may actually have a problem.
Ryan1
NOx testing is done in a loaded mode (dyno). NOx emissions increase when combustion chamber temperatures get into the 2500 degree range. Air is mostly Nitrogen and when you get it too hot a chemical reaction begins to occur which forms NOx.
Older cars used an EGR valve to pump inert exhaust gas back into the combustion chamber to cool things down and control NOx emissions. Newer fuel injected cars use computer controls to monitor and carefully regulate air/fuel ratios and timing advance to achieve the same result.
Testing standards are based on model year and most states are fairly generous in allowable limits.
If you can find a competent honest mechanic with the proper equipment it will probably be fairly easy to identify the cause of such a huge level of NOx emissions. It may not be easy or cheap to repair. Many states have a formula which limits the dollar amount you have to spend as long as a substantial improvement can be made.
Good luck, and welcome to the brave new world of soft totalitarianism.
you sound pissed really if your car fails the system is doing its job try being me i have to get an etest every 2 years like you do in ontario but because my car never came with this motor i get the hotrod class and my values go way up
try having readings that low, pisses me off because idon't think i could fail if i tried
no post cat O2 (no biggy)
plugs that were worn to .110 insted of .060
bad plug wires
7 month old 87 octane gas
thats BULLSH*T there
you wont be able to get the hotrod class since the 2002 came ecotec doesn't matter if your SC or not your still not considered a hotrod unless the car is equiped with a NON Factory option motor
don't those GM tunes dump a lot of fuel into the motor i thought they ran really rich, if i remember correctly
JBO since July 30, 2001
If you can't find or cure the cause of the high NOx, a new replacement converter can often mask a problem long enough to pass an emissions test. Don't know if your web of environmentalist bureaucracy would allow or appreciate this strategy, but it has been a fairly common practice in many locales subject to this type of testing.
During the time I was involved with the auto emissions testing industry scam I was always encouraged and often amazed by the ingenious and creative methods the subject population devised to fool the system. Good luck to you!
Yeah i'm stil on temporary stickers at the moment. I took it in for a diagnostic and he says its my front o2 sensor. So this wensday i'm getting that replaced. He says though even if it isn't that i'll then be over the 450$ repair limit cost. So either way i'm good to go.
Denatured alcohol or was that methanol, anyone? Its at home depot, right next to the paint thinner. You may run like @!#$ but it passes! lil trick my 3rd gen camaro buddies use when they gotta pass emissions. Me? I know people. lol
gm s/c kit better pass emissions.. thats the whole point of having an OEM kit.
something is wrong.
Hey guys just a lil update. Got my car finally passed and done with emissions bull@!#$ for another year.
He said the front o2 sensor wasn't even in, and the back was starting to fail. (got new back one done in late spring/summer) but he said the back might come back to life with the new front in or something. Anyway isn't that @!#$ up? it wasn't even in, and from what i was told my car has been in a default mode... Worst thing is i've probabaly put on near 50k since i did the exhaust (which i was told to assume is when the front didnt get put back in, and the back replaced) he also said it wouldn't of hurt the car (possibly my new high flow cat) it's just been pig rich (probabaly a billionaire since i have gm reflash aswell) and my gas milage.
I couldn't tell if the car is different now (just got back from dentist and it's snowing out) but from what he said I should notice improved performance when my computer relearns everything and i'll be more stoich then it was before. I still recieved fail. It passed everything but one section, the NO ppm @ 795 when 505 is the limit.
