Ok I will start from the beginning. The first problem was that my wife pulled into house as I was outside and I heard the car making a horrible racket. I listed and it sounded like it was coming from top end. I let it cool and pulled valve cover and the timing chain had about two inches of play in it. Well that is no surprise as I have read this cars have timing chain issues. So I went out and ordered a timing set. I replaced and verified timing was correct like three times before putting back together. Put back together and started ok but making ticking noise from top end. Well I just knew that it had bent valves when timing chain got loose. SO i checked compression and it was withing 5% of each cylinder and they were all around 170( Quite odd to have bent valve with such even compression). So i took back apart made sure it was timed correct again placed back together same issue. So i took head to machine shop had it rebuilt and now all is quite, but i have other issues. It will start and run but has no power, bogs when you give it gas, shifts really hard. It has check engine light with three codes p0108, which is map sensor high voltage,p172 excessive rich, p0300 engine misfire. I have taken back apart twice and retimed to make sure it is correct. Someone gave me suggestion that catalytic converter may be clogged. Well did not want to just buy on that suggestion alone so I punched out a little bit of the center of it, (no emission testing in Tennessee). Still the same thing happening no power and the three codes. I thought it may be because the car sat for 4 months may have gotten moisture in gas so i siphoned all out and replaced with fresh gas and still same issue.
Fuel Pressure is within manual specs.
Plugs are new ac delco iridium- same as oem
I do not want to spend anymore cash guessing and cannot figure out what can cause those three codes and the running conditions.
Anyone experienced anything like this with these cars?
I have any kind of tool to diagnose,scanners, vacuum gauge , fuel pressure gauge, etc you name the tool I have it or someone I know does.( Family of mechanics) I just cant think of anything else to test. Electronic parts are hard to test and most say to have dealership check, like the ICM, coils etc
I have had me, my dad , and my uncle look at it. combined experienced of like 50+ years and none of us can think of anything else to check.
Can someone help me? Anyone else dealt with this issue? I am about over this and about to just say forget it and see how good it floats
That's a lot of stuff there...and a good question.
My guess is that it is a sensor issue....MAP comes to mind. Fuel filter is another.
Apparently i left some u info out as well
I had the dreaded fuel pump issue about 20000 miles ago so i replaced both. And i checked fuel pressure and its within specs. I willing to bet a sensor but I dont want to just go buying them one by one and replace them that can get expensive.
I am at my last wits with this car grrrrrrr
Go on alldata and look up the procedure on how to test for the map sensor high voltage code. And for the misfire is it a random multiple misfire or a individual cylinder? its very likely your map code is causing the other 2 which is definitely what is looks like with those 3 codes. if you have some spare plug wires laying around you can check your coil and use a spark plug tester. good luck
The code says misfire p0300 list as a misfire and does not say a specific cylinder. I know 301-304 i the different cylinders but p0300 listed as engine misfire. What is alldata?
Yea since the coils mount in that unit i did not think about that, I will try that this week and see what kind of fire I am getting
all data is a program with alot of information about cars. wiring diagrams, pin connector, locations of parts, alot of useful information. if your dad and uncle were techs for atleast a couple years they should definitely know how to diagnose it and help you with your problem. dont think it was very wise to punch a hole in the cat but its not my car soo you will get a code for you rear 02 eventually.After you rebuilt the top end did you prime the timing chain tensioner? if not it will definitely allow a little slack and you will have some ticking until it primes. If you were off a tooth on the timing you would of known it as well.
Well the reason I punched it out was because I did not want to purchase one right away if it was not the issue. I use only factory parts when I repair and the timing kit was 165 from gm and the head gasket set is 170 from gm and the head getting fixed was 290 so i was no inclinded to spend another 300 without first verifying it was the issue. When I do find out what the issue is I will replace the cat. I did prime the tensioner by making sure it did pop out after taping on the tensioner. I looked up alldata and it seems to be a paid program. I already have a chiltons manual on the car and it does not give info to test the map sensors etc on this car. Past chilton manuals have given that info but this just simply says have them checked by dealer. Thats the reason my father and uncle have no way to test the devices, we do not have specs and instructions to. I think I may end up purchasing a GM sevice manual so i can then check them. I have found one for 135 online. I thought it may be timing but we have checked it three times, cause hey I could have missed it but three of us redoing it and checking it 100% three times at this point I have become inclined to believe we have timed it correct.
jeremi webb wrote:Well the reason I punched it out was because I did not want to purchase one right away if it was not the issue. I use only factory parts when I repair and the timing kit was 165 from gm and the head gasket set is 170 from gm and the head getting fixed was 290 so i was no inclinded to spend another 300 without first verifying it was the issue. When I do find out what the issue is I will replace the cat. I did prime the tensioner by making sure it did pop out after taping on the tensioner. I looked up alldata and it seems to be a paid program. I already have a chiltons manual on the car and it does not give info to test the map sensors etc on this car. Past chilton manuals have given that info but this just simply says have them checked by dealer. Thats the reason my father and uncle have no way to test the devices, we do not have specs and instructions to. I think I may end up purchasing a GM sevice manual so i can then check them. I have found one for 135 online. I thought it may be timing but we have checked it three times, cause hey I could have missed it but three of us redoing it and checking it 100% three times at this point I have become inclined to believe we have timed it correct.
Hi, I've no practical advice for you here but notice you've got an interesting way of approaching auto repair. You purchase nothing except from the GM dealer. It begs to be asked, have you done any price shopping to see how much you are overpaying for some parts? For example: I can purchase cam bearings for my J from GM for $203, Or I can purchase name brand bearings to do the same task from my local parts store for $61.35 ( I can get them for $33 from cheapo chain auto parts but am hesitant fearing quality issues). That's the savings on just one part! Now in all fairness there are things I do only purchase from a dealer and sometimes dealers actually charge less for a given part.
You hedge at a service information site that charges a fee, it's not big for a one time look but more for a subscription. Yet you diagnose a catalytic convertor by punching a hole through it, totally ruining it, and if that isn't the problem, heck you'll just drop $300 on a new one!?!?! Why not Simply unbolt the sucker and put in a $20 test pipe? $280 dollars cheaper and an absolute diagnosis.
Go spend the money on the GM manuals, you really need them, they are the best out there and they contain a wealth of good information, more than I can digest when it comes to Passive Restraint and ABS brake diagnosis and repairs!
Good Luck with your running problem. I hope you discover it soon, not sure how long you can afford your repair methodology!
Dave
After dumping all that money into the car and getting absolutely nowhere, I think it would be best for you to take it to someone else and let them fix it for you. Because obviously you're doing it wrong.
Throwing a MAP sensor code after you've had the top end apart when it was working fine otherwise tells me that you have something not hooked up correctly or probably not at all. Either one of the electronics, or the Vac. lines.
www.gmscf.com
david keevil wrote:jeremi webb wrote:Well the reason I punched it out was because I did not want to purchase one right away if it was not the issue. I use only factory parts when I repair and the timing kit was 165 from gm and the head gasket set is 170 from gm and the head getting fixed was 290 so i was no inclinded to spend another 300 without first verifying it was the issue. When I do find out what the issue is I will replace the cat. I did prime the tensioner by making sure it did pop out after taping on the tensioner. I looked up alldata and it seems to be a paid program. I already have a chiltons manual on the car and it does not give info to test the map sensors etc on this car. Past chilton manuals have given that info but this just simply says have them checked by dealer. Thats the reason my father and uncle have no way to test the devices, we do not have specs and instructions to. I think I may end up purchasing a GM sevice manual so i can then check them. I have found one for 135 online. I thought it may be timing but we have checked it three times, cause hey I could have missed it but three of us redoing it and checking it 100% three times at this point I have become inclined to believe we have timed it correct.
Hi, I've no practical advice for you here but notice you've got an interesting way of approaching auto repair. You purchase nothing except from the GM dealer. It begs to be asked, have you done any price shopping to see how much you are overpaying for some parts? For example: I can purchase cam bearings for my J from GM for $203, Or I can purchase name brand bearings to do the same task from my local parts store for $61.35 ( I can get them for $33 from cheapo chain auto parts but am hesitant fearing quality issues). That's the savings on just one part! Now in all fairness there are things I do only purchase from a dealer and sometimes dealers actually charge less for a given part.
You hedge at a service information site that charges a fee, it's not big for a one time look but more for a subscription. Yet you diagnose a catalytic convertor by punching a hole through it, totally ruining it, and if that isn't the problem, heck you'll just drop $300 on a new one!?!?! Why not Simply unbolt the sucker and put in a $20 test pipe? $280 dollars cheaper and an absolute diagnosis.
Go spend the money on the GM manuals, you really need them, they are the best out there and they contain a wealth of good information, more than I can digest when it comes to Passive Restraint and ABS brake diagnosis and repairs!
Good Luck with your running problem. I hope you discover it soon, not sure how long you can afford your repair methodology!
Dave
Ok well my methodology may be odd but still correct let me explain. First off when I buy from GM I never question the quality(granted they have some parts that are bad from factory but overall quality is great) Like you mentioned most parts I have bought are closley priced or just a little more expensive. Interior parts, electrical parts are a little different and tend to carry the dealership premium. I would still rather pay the difference and be sure. On an older carburated car or just any older non computer controlled car I have owned, I buy from napa or something similar I try to avoid advanced or autozone because of prev experiance with cheap bad quality parts.
I dont want to spend the money on some website that requires you to pay and yet I dont know what I'm getting. It may be simply some of the same info as a chiltons manual. or it may be much better like a gm manual but I dont know so I am very hesistant to do something like that.
And this is not at all to be rude but the reason I came to this site is because I wanted someone with experiance with these cars which obviously you dont have because bolting in a test pipe is not possible. The cat is made in middle of the exhaust pipe that bolts directly to manifold and then to second half of exhaust. It is a curved custom bent pipe to clear firewall so it is not simple as bolting in a "test pipe" you would have to cut out cat then weld in test pipe. I looked on the net for a test pipe for this car and was unable to find one, and just for kicks I looked for high flow cats and all high flow cat's I found are either included in a full exhaust system or as a weld in type no bolt in.
I will go by the manual from GM and diagnose and fix it that way
alldata is interesting in that it offers better diagrams than your average haynes or chiltons repair manuals but you can most likely find those online for free. apart from that, it has no real advantage over a paper manual. it isnt very specific when it comes to installation procedures, diagnosis, etc. plus you cant take it outside to look at while workin on the car
jeremi webb wrote:
And this is not at all to be rude but the reason I came to this site is because I wanted someone with experiance with these cars which obviously you dont have because bolting in a test pipe is not possible.
You missed my very first sentence. "I've no practical advice for you." I don't know the newer J's only the older ones which is why I kept my mouth shut about your problem.
Good luck with your repair, hope you stumble upon the answer soon.
dave
if your not getting a cat deficiancy code then why even turn to the cat in the first place? take the car to a shop or dealer and they will hook up a oscilliscope to the map sensor and find the problem. or try your luck and change the map sensor. good luck
