Hey all,

Having some issues w/ a car I am currently tasked w/ fixing..

Its a 98 Z24 2.4 Auto. We just installed a new water pump, timing chain & tensioner. It needed the water pump & the chain is preventative maintenance. The car was running fine before, just pissing coolant..

Everything went smoothly, but when we start the car, its sputtering really bad & the whole motor is rocking back & forth violently...
So, I'm thinking the timing must be off a tooth. Pull the whole car apart again. Set the crank at TDC & the bolts slide right into the cam gears w/ no issues...

I turn the motor over a few times, chain is rolling smooth.. Line the crank back up w/ TDC & the cam gears line right up- bolts slide right on... As far as I can tell, the timing is spot on.

Ive looked over the whole car, everything is good.. I can't figure it out... We'll be scanning the check engine light probably tonight..

I know this is a stupid question, but even w/ the cam gears lining up & the crank at TDC- would it still be possible the timing is off? I can't think of any other reason..

Thanks.

If you see the timing marks lined up im sure it's right. Let us know what that CEL is about, that could be the problem right there.

Btw, if your timing was off your car would sound like you have a beefy cam in it with all the loping. Mine was off a tooth before and thats exactlyl what is sounded like, but the engine was not rocking at all.

Good luck.










~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

I'm almost 100% sure the timing is right, the only reason I'm doubting myself is because the car isnt running & it sounds like the timing is off..

But it was matching up 100%, TDC crank & the bolts slide right in.. No pressure.. No chain bunching up or jumping, just nice smooth action..

I took it all apart, HOPING that the timing was off, but its not- everything lined up perfect.. I just put it back together, but the car is still running like crap.. Motor rocks back & forth pretty bad and it just sounds off, chugging & sputtering.. It sounds like the farking timing is off but I don't know any other way for me to make it any righter.. Everything syncs.

I'm getting ready to head back down to the shop in a few, so we'll see what the CEL says..

Maybe I'll take a video of the car running like crap... THANKS.

Alright....

The CEL lights were for EGR crap. I dont think its related- guy says they come on every now & then.. Cleared em anyway, still runs like crap. No CEL when running now...

The motor sounds like its sucking air big time when its running... The exhaust has alot of gray smoke coming out of it & the car stinks...

It clears up a little bit when we rev it, but the motor is still rocking & the car is running like @!#$..

This is SCREAMING bad timing to me, but I just dont understand how it could be off.... The only way would be if the crank somehow got turned around 360 degrees while the cams were sitting still... But even then, the motor wouldnt be at TDC when I was checking it yesterday w/ the dots lines up & the cam alignment pins sliding in effortlessly...

I dont wanna pull this thing back apart again just to stare at some timing components that look spot-on.. But I just dont know what else it could be..

***** BONUS*****
I took a video of the car running... You can hear the intake sucking air, its pretty loud... The motor is pulling itself in different directions..

There's "something" about a loose tensioner on the older discussion boards. Was it

the tensioner had to be pre-set for tension, and, if not it would change timing ?

Anyone know,and can help ?

Double check for any vacuum leaks. The 2.4's are notorious for having them leak behind the intake manifold with that PCV system.

Also, make sure the cam sensor is ok, I've seen them go bad and cause it to run rough like that.

Also, check the vacuum line going to the MAP sensor, another common problem on these.

Also, replace your lower "dogbone" mount. Its definitely bad!!!

And its not possible for the crank to rotate 360 degrees and it be out of time, number one, the 2.4 is an interference engine and it would stop when it contacted the valves, and number 2, if it were to somehow rotate 360 degrees and not touch the valves, it would still be in time.

And last but not least, do a fuel pressure and compression check.




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!

I looked over the car pretty good... I will check again, but I didnt see any loose vacuum lines or sensors unplugged.. Plus, theres no CEL anymore..

The plugs were kinda crappy looking, so we're going to put in some new ones, but just the sound coming out of the intake is such a loud sucking noise- its baffling...

I didnt think the timing was off the first time, but I couldnt explain why the car was running so bad... Everything lines up perfect.

Good bit of smoke coming out of the tail pipe.. I almost wonder if the headgasket went as well.. The pistons were pretty nasty looking when spying through the spark plug hole, but the car has like 100k on it, plus it ran fine when we pulled it in the shop.

I'm probably going to switch some sensors over from my other car to try & troubleshoot tonight...

What are you talking about ?? That dog bone mount is fiiiiine...

Ahh now that you've mentioned it about the EGR. My friends contour did the exact same thing the other day, motor shaking and running like crap. He took it to the shop and it turned out to be a bad egr valve. They replaced that and the plugs now it runs perfect. Just because you cleared the CEL doesn't make the problem go away, the issue is still there but has yet to trip the CEL again. I would say replace your egr stuff and see if that fixes it.

Ps, damn that motor looks like it's having a heart attack hehe.

Let us know.










~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

Alright gang, I got it figured out...

Ended up being the Coolant temperature sensor wire was cut... All those wires on the driverside of the motor were disconnected for access to the manifold etc... I'm guessing it got pinched on reassembly, because the wire had a little gash in it..

I repaired the wire, & the car started right up, running awesome !!

Now, just gotta fix a small coolant leak where the thermostat is & he should be good to go... Its crazy that one wire would make the motor run like that...

Thanks for everyones help !! I knew the timing was right.

I couldn't help but laugh out loud when I watched that video. Your motor is having a seizure!



2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R

Glad you figured it out! Thats frustrating when everything seems right and you're just missing some tiny little thing. And that motor sure was bouncing around, lol.

Sweet, real simple.










~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

If the engine is a rocking, don't come a knock'in, come on in!
-SRV

Seriously though, I have never seen something like that nor ever hope to.
I hope you find the fix fast.

My wife's Sunfire is "pissing" coolant here and there.

She has 130k miles on the car. So the timing chain and new pump is on the list.
Hopefully this wont be the end result.


My wife's 2003 Ecotec 2.2 liter Sunfire:
* 2 1/4 inch in and dual 2 inch out muffler Trans Am muffler
* 2 1/4 piping to a very long 2 1/4 inch resonator
* 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter
* an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition
* 8 gauge ground wire kit
* Toyz front strut brace
* Russell stainless steel brake lines all around.

do not forget to replace the the plastic chain guides if there is any like the 2.4 because a couple of thousandths of wear will decrease your oil pressure...

well if the smoke has a
brown tinge it generally means the there is something unpleasent in your fuel system and
it fouled out your plugs/isnt fully combusting
blue tinge would indicate burning oil, from a piston seal or something of the like
white tinge would indicate a head gasket leak or worse a warped head
did the car over heat with that bad water pump?
you should know that when a water pump goes it is usually because the seal around the impeller went and is leaking coolant into the shaft
in which case it leaks out a vent hole to prevent hydrolock
leaking out means less coolant in the system AND less coolant reaching the head.
the head on a car can warp very VERY easily i know because i used to have and 89 cav and it happened to me