Just tonight i noticed when i turn the wheel it makes that typical "eeeeeee" sound that you can feel in the steering wheel, checked the fluid and it seemed to be a little low, and was brown and foamy, not sure whats going on, I changed the return hose a few weeks ago due to it melting against my downpipe, but any ideas as to why its making this noise and the fluid is foamy and a lil low? I couldnt find any obvious leaks newhere.
I searched and couldnt really find much help so i figured id make a post, any help is appriciated.
Thanks
Did you bleed the system after you put the new hose on?
yeah i did, i figured it out the next day, i had to tighten the return hose just a tad to "seal' it up i suppose. Not sure why it happened a week after putting it on but no biggie.
should be good to go now.
same thing is happening to me. except my noise is more of a grinding now. pullys look ok. but ima replace power steering pump and hose n bleed the system n see what happens.
Just make sure you use only power steering fluid. I know some people use a little bit of tranny fluid to top it off, but dont. It will expand and spill out, and cause issues, so be safe and use only power steering fluid.
how do you bleed the power steering on a 2.4L?
~1996 Cavalier LS 2.4L (auto)
Letxen3 wrote:how do you bleed the power steering on a 2.4L?
with the car on, open your PS cap and turn the wheel left to lock, then right to lock, and repeat a bunch of times....air will be pushed back to the resiviour and bubble up out of it
^^^^^^^ power steering fluid is ATF
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
The power steering fluid I use from gm is not red, its clear. Not so sure its ATF myself but I could be wrong
"Straight roads are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers"-Colin McRae
Its is atf. The red is just a color additive. Without that, it would be clear. GM is known for selling it clear. I don't remember the reason why though.
ATF means what......sorry, noob moment
Automatic transmission fluid
"Straight roads are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers"-Colin McRae
Ummm, I never heard of power steering fluid being ATF. So im not saying ur lieing, but I find that really hard to believe. Just bc PS fluid is pretty much a hydraulic fluid you put into ur system. ATF also expands when its gets hot, PS fluid does not. If you fill the PS reservior with ATF fluid, ur gonna have it pissing out everywhere from the reservior. If U fill it up with PS fluid, like you should, it wont leak. So I dont think ur correct saying PS fluid IS ATF fluid.
atf and power steering fluid are very very very very close to the same, may not be exactly the same but it will not affect anything, i am a mechanic and we always use atf, cause ps fluid is more expensive and there is no need to waist your money, but i would be careful because some newer car i have seen dont call for ps fluid, they call for something else, just cant remember what it was, but with this you cant use either ps fluid of atf
New winter toy 1998 Z24
As always my on going project 1983 Z28
^^^^^ You talking about Pentosin??
"Straight roads are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers"-Colin McRae
BMW's use brake fluid. I think mini's too as well, they are owned by BMW.
Some cars call for ATF.
Most call for Power Steering Fluid.
Always check what thew manufacturer specifies. Putting in the wrong fluid can destroy the pump, or shorten it's life.
walterc1 wrote:atf and power steering fluid are very very very very close to the same, may not be exactly the same but it will not affect anything, i am a mechanic and we always use atf, cause ps fluid is more expensive and there is no need to waist your money, but i would be careful because some newer car i have seen dont call for ps fluid, they call for something else, just cant remember what it was, but with this you cant use either ps fluid of atf
Well, I am too a mechanic, been working on cars for a little over 10 years, been in the parts side of things for over 8 years. Never heard of them being close or anything like that. I have also personally seen what happens when u add just atf to a PS reservior and the mess it makes when it gets hot and expands. I NEVER recommend using ATF in a PS system that calls for PS fluid.
sunfiretun3r wrote:BMW's use brake fluid. I think mini's too as well, they are owned by BMW.
Some cars call for ATF.
Most call for Power Steering Fluid.
Always check what thew manufacturer specifies. Putting in the wrong fluid can destroy the pump, or shorten it's life.
This is 100% correct. ALWAYS put what the manufacturer says to put in there. I know if I was one of ur customers and U put ATF in the PS system, and it pissed all over my engine, I would personally be pissed. Hense the reason when me and my partner (Whom I run a shop with) did this with a customers car, I pulled all the fluid out of the system, and put PS fluid in it. BTW it was on a 99 Taurus that we had just got done swapping the motor on. It maybe just me, but I hate putting anything into any system that it does not call for, IDC how close to each other they are. But then again, I never had PS fluid expand and piss over everything when hot
i use atf on my own cars, and never had it "piss out" as you say, i have seen when people try to fill the reservoir before bleeding the system, and it foaming out all over the place, but as long as you fill in increments it wont overflow. once you get your level right it should never expand that much that it overflows when hot, and by level right you should check your stick, and notice where it has a hot and cold level, never fill it up when the car is hot(because it wont matter if you use ps fluid or not,, when you put cold fluid with hot fluid the cold stuff will expand) always fill with the system cold and you wont have a problem regardless what you use.
New winter toy 1998 Z24
As always my on going project 1983 Z28
oh and just another tid bit of info
Quote:
Ummm, I never heard of power steering fluid being ATF. So im not saying ur lieing, but I find that really hard to believe. Just bc PS fluid is pretty much a hydraulic fluid you put into ur system. ATF also expands when its gets hot, PS fluid does not. If you fill the PS reservior with ATF fluid, ur gonna have it pissing out everywhere from the reservior. If U fill it up with PS fluid, like you should, it wont leak. So I dont think ur correct saying PS fluid IS ATF fluid.
look it up ps fluid, atf, brake fluid, just to list the ones used in this form, they are all hydraulic fluids, what do you think drives an automatic transmission. HYDRAULIC PRESSURE. and they all expand when heated, point in case
New winter toy 1998 Z24
As always my on going project 1983 Z28
Sunfiretun3r wrote:BMW's use brake fluid. I think mini's too as well, they are owned by BMW.
Some cars call for ATF.
Most call for Power Steering Fluid.
Always check what the manufacturer specifies. Putting in the wrong fluid can destroy the pump, ruin seals, etc.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^
There is no right or wrong answer here, there are many debates about it if you do a google search. Some manufacturers say use ATF and some dont. Id play it on the safe side if it was me.
"Straight roads are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers"-Colin McRae
walterc1 wrote:oh and just another tid bit of info
Quote:
Ummm, I never heard of power steering fluid being ATF. So im not saying ur lieing, but I find that really hard to believe. Just bc PS fluid is pretty much a hydraulic fluid you put into ur system. ATF also expands when its gets hot, PS fluid does not. If you fill the PS reservior with ATF fluid, ur gonna have it pissing out everywhere from the reservior. If U fill it up with PS fluid, like you should, it wont leak. So I dont think ur correct saying PS fluid IS ATF fluid.
look it up ps fluid, atf, brake fluid, just to list the ones used in this form, they are all hydraulic fluids, what do you think drives an automatic transmission. HYDRAULIC PRESSURE. and they all expand when heated, point in case
Ok. Since you seem to know it all, I wont get into it with you no more. I have been working on cars longer then u have been driving. But hey, what do I know, right?? Onecleancavi is right, there are tons of debates over this stuff. Your set in ur ways. I love it how you think I have no idea how to fill a PS reservior nor bleed it. But this isnt a dick measure contest bc I really dont care what you think. I personally have seen what happens when you fill (WHILE COLD) a PS reservior with ATF and bleed the system, it lowers down, you fill it back to cold, bleed it more, and so fourth and so on. Well guess what, after about a hour of driving, the ATF was pissing out of the PS reservior, getting onto the engine, smoking and such. Keep doing as you wish buddy, thats ur name on the line, not mine. Oh, and I guess the 12 Mechanics I work with, as well as the the shop that me and my buddy OWN with the 2 techs there are also wrong saying ATF isnt the same as PS fluid. Mind you were all MASTER CERTIFIED and have all worked in dealerships. But hey again, what do we know.
And as far as ur comment about it being hydraulic fluid. NO @!#$. The auto trans ususes the pressure to switch gears. I know this. BUT ATF fluid expands 2-3times its size, and PS fluid might expand .5-1 times its size. Yes there both hydraulic fluids, but there not the same mixture of chemicals. There is a reason they made PS fluid. But I will agree with u to a point, you can use ATF in PS systems, BUT ONLY A LITTLE AT A TIME. Not fill the thing up with it. If you do, I personally think ur a idiot for doing that, but hey its ur car, not mine so I really dont care. i just feel bad for ur customers who are coming to ur "Mechanic Shop" and having any kind of PS work done and getting ATF fluid in the system instead of ATF. A little is ok, but filling it up with nothing but especially after doing work on the system, is stupid in itself. but whatever, its mechanics like you that keep my Honest shop alive, so keep going, bc it does make me money
Have a nice day
with a post like that i think everyone can see who the idiot is, have fun walking away mad about this, its so funny how people gets so upset over someone who has a different opinion, all i can say is i dont have a problem with it, it works for me, i have had nothing but atf in my system for 2 years with no problems and thats that, i also never said i knew it all, otherwise i wouldnt be on this form, but i also didnt just fall off the turnip truck. go take a chill pill, a cup of coffee a drink of rum, man take it easy because your not the only person in the world who seems to think they are god of cars
New winter toy 1998 Z24
As always my on going project 1983 Z28
walterc1 wrote:with a post like that i think everyone can see who the idiot is, have fun walking away mad about this, its so funny how people gets so upset over someone who has a different opinion, all i can say is i dont have a problem with it, it works for me, i have had nothing but atf in my system for 2 years with no problems and thats that, i also never said i knew it all, otherwise i wouldnt be on this form, but i also didnt just fall off the turnip truck. go take a chill pill, a cup of coffee a drink of rum, man take it easy because your not the only person in the world who seems to think they are god of cars
LOL I dont get mad. I dont take the interwebs seriously buddy.
Its all good. I just personally think its stupid on what you do, but we all know the saying about opinions. And trust me buddy, I dont know all about cars, nor do I think Im god. Well, sometimes, but not always
So my panties arent in a twist or the such. Keep ur atf fluid, and ill keep my PS fluid, and we will all be merry and happy. If it works for you, awsome! Im happy for ya.
Walter, I have to agree with Sneezy. I worked for Chevrolet for 8 years. I have also worked in a couple independent garages. I am an ASE Certified Master Automobile Tech and ASE Certified Undercar Specialist. I have take over 100 courses through GM Service technical College, and am a GM Silver Level Service Guild Technician. Not all hydraulic fluids are the same. They have different chemicals in them for different purposes. For example, most ATF has friction modifiers in them as well as lubricating properties. Brake fluid has certain heat discipation properties as well as lubricants. Hell, water or any liquid for that matter can be used as a hydraulic fluid. That doesn't mean it has a specific purpose as a hydraulic fluid, and I can prove this. Go pour a gallon of water into your intake and see what happens. Sneezy, I might need your help on this one but I think it is called "hydro-lock" when the engine refuses to turn over because the cylinders are full of water and due to the ability of water to compress as opposed to air. In other words, a hydraulic condition or the hydraulic effect has occured.. Another examply. Since brake fluid has lubricating properties for the seals in the master cylinder, calipers, and wheel cylinders, next time you do an oil change, put brake fluid in the crank case insteads of oil. I mean really, what keeps the bearings or any metal to metal contact in an engine's rotating assembly from happening? Well, Sneezy, some help here too? It's a thin film of oil, that without the turning of the oil pump to maintain pressure, wouldn't be there, essentially eliminating the hydraulic barrier between two moving metal components. PS fluid was designed to hold up to the pressure and temperature demands of a power steering system with a limited expansions, as is any other hydraulic fluid being use for it's designed purpose. So like I said, I agree with Sneezy, you and the shop you're working for is doing things wrong if you're not putting the proper fluid in for a specific application. Oh, and if you would please, tell us all where your shop is so that we can make sure not to bring our cars to a crooked hacker who's trying to scam the customer for his own financial gain.
Now, for the real reason I cam here. 04pearlcav, I'm not sure what engine platform you have, but I know through experience that the LD9 has a specific bleed proceedure. When I worked in the dealership (and anyone can pretty much research this) you had to apply a vacuum on the resevoir while the engine is running and your turning the wheel from stop to stop. Be careful not to suck up the fluid into your vacuum pump though as it destroys the pump. What I did instead of buying the tool from Kent Moore (General Motors), I went to the hardware store and bought a rubber stopper bigger than the opening of the resevoir. I used a 1/8" drill bit and drilled a hole in the center of it. Then I shoved a 3/16" steel brake pipe through the hole leaving the flare on the bottom side. I put my hand vacuum pump on that and put about 10 to 15psi on the system and start the car. After turning the wheel from styop to stop, shut the car off. Monitor the vacuum guage for a declin in vacuum. You may have to do this 2 or 3 times as the fluid will fill the voids in the system where you remove the air. When the vacuum guage stops falling, your done, jut top off the fluid to the proper level and you're good to go.
And one last thing. Walter, I don't want to hear any crap. If you think this procedure is wrong, take it up with General Motors, I didn't write it. It is what they have written in their service manuals. If you don't believe me, go look it up. In fact, I recommend you go look up your enitre career and put it to the manufacturers specifications before you come back in here shooting your mouth off again to anyone. Oh, and for the record, I'm not god either. I just know the difference between doing things the right way and the wrong way and that I'm not ripping off the naive customer who doesn't have a clue. If they did, they wouldn't bring us their cars.
Some people have brain storms, others light drizzles. And then there are those that have droughts.
JCZ Z24 wrote:Walter, I have to agree with Sneezy. I worked for Chevrolet for 8 years. I have also worked in a couple independent garages. I am an ASE Certified Master Automobile Tech and ASE Certified Undercar Specialist. I have take over 100 courses through GM Service technical College, and am a GM Silver Level Service Guild Technician. Not all hydraulic fluids are the same. They have different chemicals in them for different purposes. For example, most ATF has friction modifiers in them as well as lubricating properties. Brake fluid has certain heat discipation properties as well as lubricants. Hell, water or any liquid for that matter can be used as a hydraulic fluid. That doesn't mean it has a specific purpose as a hydraulic fluid, and I can prove this. Go pour a gallon of water into your intake and see what happens. Sneezy, I might need your help on this one but I think it is called "hydro-lock" when the engine refuses to turn over because the cylinders are full of water and due to the ability of water to compress as opposed to air. In other words, a hydraulic condition or the hydraulic effect has occured.. Another examply. Since brake fluid has lubricating properties for the seals in the master cylinder, calipers, and wheel cylinders, next time you do an oil change, put brake fluid in the crank case insteads of oil. I mean really, what keeps the bearings or any metal to metal contact in an engine's rotating assembly from happening? Well, Sneezy, some help here too? It's a thin film of oil, that without the turning of the oil pump to maintain pressure, wouldn't be there, essentially eliminating the hydraulic barrier between two moving metal components. PS fluid was designed to hold up to the pressure and temperature demands of a power steering system with a limited expansions, as is any other hydraulic fluid being use for it's designed purpose. So like I said, I agree with Sneezy, you and the shop you're working for is doing things wrong if you're not putting the proper fluid in for a specific application. Oh, and if you would please, tell us all where your shop is so that we can make sure not to bring our cars to a crooked hacker who's trying to scam the customer for his own financial gain.
Now, for the real reason I cam here. 04pearlcav, I'm not sure what engine platform you have, but I know through experience that the LD9 has a specific bleed proceedure. When I worked in the dealership (and anyone can pretty much research this) you had to apply a vacuum on the resevoir while the engine is running and your turning the wheel from stop to stop. Be careful not to suck up the fluid into your vacuum pump though as it destroys the pump. What I did instead of buying the tool from Kent Moore (General Motors), I went to the hardware store and bought a rubber stopper bigger than the opening of the resevoir. I used a 1/8" drill bit and drilled a hole in the center of it. Then I shoved a 3/16" steel brake pipe through the hole leaving the flare on the bottom side. I put my hand vacuum pump on that and put about 10 to 15psi on the system and start the car. After turning the wheel from styop to stop, shut the car off. Monitor the vacuum guage for a declin in vacuum. You may have to do this 2 or 3 times as the fluid will fill the voids in the system where you remove the air. When the vacuum guage stops falling, your done, jut top off the fluid to the proper level and you're good to go.
And one last thing. Walter, I don't want to hear any crap. If you think this procedure is wrong, take it up with General Motors, I didn't write it. It is what they have written in their service manuals. If you don't believe me, go look it up. In fact, I recommend you go look up your enitre career and put it to the manufacturers specifications before you come back in here shooting your mouth off again to anyone. Oh, and for the record, I'm not god either. I just know the difference between doing things the right way and the wrong way and that I'm not ripping off the naive customer who doesn't have a clue. If they did, they wouldn't bring us their cars.
Thank you sir!
You are 100% correct about the Hydro-lock senario. Any type of fluid in the cylinders can cause the rotating assembly to stop moving, causing a hydro-lock senario, or worse, catastraphic failure and cause internal parts of the engine to become external parts via the sometimes large hole on the side of the block they can create.
Also you are right about the thin layer of oil. As im sure you were not needing me to verify on either aspect. But thank u sir, maybe this guy will re-learn the correct aspects of working on cars. I never claimed to be god, but when it comes to something I was trained to do, and have been doing longer then he has been able to sit behind a steering wheel, then I think I tend to know something about it.
But in all honesty, let him keep doing as he wishes, just going to give us better names when we have to fix there screw-ups.
