Hey guys,
I just got my oil change today. I bought some Pennzoil conventional 5w-30 high mileage oil and an AC Delco oil filter. I brought it to the shop and the "next oil change" sticker was labeled 5k miles away from my current mileage. Is this a high mileage oil thing? I was planning on changing the oil every 3k, but is this a new standard with high mileage oil that I don't know about? Thanks.
most shops do 5 k now ... 3000 or 3 months came out in the 80s ... oil has improved a lot since then ....
most manufacturers recommend 7500 miles now
5K is the NORMAL interval, UNLESS you drive in extreme conditions, ie, mountians, stop and go traffic all day, towing, dusty roads, etc. Normal commute doesnt count as extreme conditions for the car. You should always read the owners manual, it covers this topic.
You could go even longer. With that oil and filter no problem. I'm running Quaker State Synthetic 5W-30, and a Purolator Classic filter. I'll probably run it 7,000 miles. If I had the PureONE or NAPA Gold,I'd run it to 8, 9k, but the classic has the Nitrile ADBV and I don't need a stiff anti-drainback in the middle of winter.
i just changed my oil too.. With Rotella T5 fully synthetic.. 10w-30 and a purolator filter too. ... one question.... i have a z24 cavi.. and i says i need 5w-30... is it bad that i put 10w-30 instead of the 5w-30???? what would happend? I live in the tip of texas... so its always hot 85-100 degrees days most of the days....
Perroloco . wrote:i just changed my oil too.. With Rotella T5 fully synthetic.. 10w-30 and a purolator filter too. ... one question.... i have a z24 cavi.. and i says i need 5w-30... is it bad that i put 10w-30 instead of the 5w-30???? what would happend? I live in the tip of texas... so its always hot 85-100 degrees days most of the days....
No problem at all. The difference between 10W-30 and 5W-30 is at cold temperature only. At 100*, 200* they are the same viscocity. At cold temperatures, the 5W-30 is thinner. No, 5W/10W is not weight. The W stands for winter. If you were further north, I'd recommend the 5W, but where it never gets cold, 10W-30 will be perfectly fine.
Nick wrote:Perroloco . wrote:i just changed my oil too.. With Rotella T5 fully synthetic.. 10w-30 and a purolator filter too. ... one question.... i have a z24 cavi.. and i says i need 5w-30... is it bad that i put 10w-30 instead of the 5w-30???? what would happend? I live in the tip of texas... so its always hot 85-100 degrees days most of the days....
No problem at all. The difference between 10W-30 and 5W-30 is at cold temperature only. At 100*, 200* they are the same viscocity. At cold temperatures, the 5W-30 is thinner. No, 5W/10W is not weight. The W stands for winter. If you were further north, I'd recommend the 5W, but where it never gets cold, 10W-30 will be perfectly fine.
I'll go ahead and take issue with this answer for it is quite simply, WRONG, and you will experience excessive engine wear over time. He does properly point out that the cold viscosity is different which is true but fails to point out the danger of his thought pattern on your engine. He is also referring to outside temperatures and not engine temperatures.
This is a great reason to NOT believe everything posted on the internet for some just haven't a clue what they are talking about and with all good intentions of helping dole out poor information that can actually damage your car.
Your engine by industry standards is designed to operate at 212 degrees.
The oil industry rates it's oil in terms you see on every can, 5 - 20, 10 - 30, 10 - 40, whatever.
These oil industry ratings are based upon oil at OPERATING temperatures, not cold start temperatures.
There is a rating system for oil viscosity outside of the numbers I just referred to above that is much more accurate and "real time" based. This is called Flow Rate. The oil industry shoots for a flow rate of 10 which is near perfection. The higher the number the less oil flows as it is designed to do at operating temperatures.
Did you know that a 0 w oil at a 75 degree morning start up ranks at a flow rate of 40? The same oil At 212 degrees flows at a level of 10,
You jump up to 10 w oil at 75 degrees the start up flow rate is a whooping 100!! but will flow at a 10 once operating temperature is reached.
Jump up to a straight 30 w and that start up cold flow is now 250. But, at operating temps also attains a 10.
Most engine wear happens at start up. The oil doesn't flow, doesn't lubricate well and the opportunity for metal to bearing contact is highest. You want to put an oil in there that best protects your engine at start up, even 85 degrees isn't warm enough to have the proper flow rate to protect your engine as you can see from my list up above. Ideally, If you installed a engine block heater and kept the engine at 200 degrees or so all night, this would be the best long term solution for your engine but this just doesn't happen and isn't practical.
My advice??
Drain that 10w oil and put in what the manufacturer recommends or accept the fact that your engine will indeed wear out faster with this oil in it instead of the 5w.
New engines also run a much tighter tolerance on bearing to crank clearances thus removing slop and friction and making the car run more efficiently. Thinner oil = less drag on the engine which in turn = more MPG's.
No matter what oil you decide to run, CHANGE IT FREQUENTLY!!! No mechanic has ever said to a customer "Gosh! You ruined your engine by doing too many oil changes" It may not make financial sense to change oil every week and some say that oil lubricates better after having been in the engine for a few hundred miles and getting "broken in", I'm not sure I buy that line of thinking though.
This information doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of oil technology and I've most likely not explained it well but hopefully you grasp the concept of what I'm trying to say about using the proper oil in the car as recommended by highly paid and educated engineers who design and test such devices.
Dave
david keevil wrote:Nick wrote:Perroloco . wrote:i just changed my oil too.. With Rotella T5 fully synthetic.. 10w-30 and a purolator filter too. ... one question.... i have a z24 cavi.. and i says i need 5w-30... is it bad that i put 10w-30 instead of the 5w-30???? what would happend? I live in the tip of texas... so its always hot 85-100 degrees days most of the days....
No problem at all. The difference between 10W-30 and 5W-30 is at cold temperature only. At 100*, 200* they are the same viscocity. At cold temperatures, the 5W-30 is thinner. No, 5W/10W is not weight. The W stands for winter. If you were further north, I'd recommend the 5W, but where it never gets cold, 10W-30 will be perfectly fine.
I'll go ahead and take issue with this answer for it is quite simply, WRONG, and you will experience excessive engine wear over time. He does properly point out that the cold viscosity is different which is true but fails to point out the danger of his thought pattern on your engine. He is also referring to outside temperatures and not engine temperatures.
This is a great reason to NOT believe everything posted on the internet for some just haven't a clue what they are talking about and with all good intentions of helping dole out poor information that can actually damage your car.
Your engine by industry standards is designed to operate at 212 degrees.
The oil industry rates it's oil in terms you see on every can, 5 - 20, 10 - 30, 10 - 40, whatever.
These oil industry ratings are based upon oil at OPERATING temperatures, not cold start temperatures.
There is a rating system for oil viscosity outside of the numbers I just referred to above that is much more accurate and "real time" based. This is called Flow Rate. The oil industry shoots for a flow rate of 10 which is near perfection. The higher the number the less oil flows as it is designed to do at operating temperatures.
Did you know that a 0 w oil at a 75 degree morning start up ranks at a flow rate of 40? The same oil At 212 degrees flows at a level of 10,
You jump up to 10 w oil at 75 degrees the start up flow rate is a whooping 100!! but will flow at a 10 once operating temperature is reached.
Jump up to a straight 30 w and that start up cold flow is now 250. But, at operating temps also attains a 10.
Most engine wear happens at start up. The oil doesn't flow, doesn't lubricate well and the opportunity for metal to bearing contact is highest. You want to put an oil in there that best protects your engine at start up, even 85 degrees isn't warm enough to have the proper flow rate to protect your engine as you can see from my list up above. Ideally, If you installed a engine block heater and kept the engine at 200 degrees or so all night, this would be the best long term solution for your engine but this just doesn't happen and isn't practical.
My advice??
Drain that 10w oil and put in what the manufacturer recommends or accept the fact that your engine will indeed wear out faster with this oil in it instead of the 5w.
New engines also run a much tighter tolerance on bearing to crank clearances thus removing slop and friction and making the car run more efficiently. Thinner oil = less drag on the engine which in turn = more MPG's.
No matter what oil you decide to run, CHANGE IT FREQUENTLY!!! No mechanic has ever said to a customer "Gosh! You ruined your engine by doing too many oil changes" It may not make financial sense to change oil every week and some say that oil lubricates better after having been in the engine for a few hundred miles and getting "broken in", I'm not sure I buy that line of thinking though.
This information doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of oil technology and I've most likely not explained it well but hopefully you grasp the concept of what I'm trying to say about using the proper oil in the car as recommended by highly paid and educated engineers who design and test such devices.
Dave
I'm sorry sir, but have you spent the better part of the last year on a automtive site, a huge chunk of which is dedicated to discussion about motor oil? No? Then I would suggest you head over to www.bobistheoilguy.com and educate yourself. Some people like to run 10W-40 in cars specced for 5W-20 without issue. Really, in Texas, 10W-30 will be fine. I would start not recommending it when you start hitting 30 degrees or below, above it it is thin enough that it won't matter. Yes it is true that most wear occurs on startup, but the best way to minimize that is to use a filter with a good anti-drainback valve. At 65 degrees plus, the startup viscosity difference, and difference in time between lubrication between a 5w-30 and a 10w-30 is negligible to none.
Nick wrote:david keevil wrote:Nick wrote:Perroloco . wrote:i just changed my oil too.. With Rotella T5 fully synthetic.. 10w-30 and a purolator filter too. ... one question.... i have a z24 cavi.. and i says i need 5w-30... is it bad that i put 10w-30 instead of the 5w-30???? what would happend? I live in the tip of texas... so its always hot 85-100 degrees days most of the days....
No problem at all. The difference between 10W-30 and 5W-30 is at cold temperature only. At 100*, 200* they are the same viscocity. At cold temperatures, the 5W-30 is thinner. No, 5W/10W is not weight. The W stands for winter. If you were further north, I'd recommend the 5W, but where it never gets cold, 10W-30 will be perfectly fine.
I'll go ahead and take issue with this answer for it is quite simply, WRONG, and you will experience excessive engine wear over time. He does properly point out that the cold viscosity is different which is true but fails to point out the danger of his thought pattern on your engine. He is also referring to outside temperatures and not engine temperatures.
This is a great reason to NOT believe everything posted on the internet for some just haven't a clue what they are talking about and with all good intentions of helping dole out poor information that can actually damage your car.
Your engine by industry standards is designed to operate at 212 degrees.
The oil industry rates it's oil in terms you see on every can, 5 - 20, 10 - 30, 10 - 40, whatever.
These oil industry ratings are based upon oil at OPERATING temperatures, not cold start temperatures.
There is a rating system for oil viscosity outside of the numbers I just referred to above that is much more accurate and "real time" based. This is called Flow Rate. The oil industry shoots for a flow rate of 10 which is near perfection. The higher the number the less oil flows as it is designed to do at operating temperatures.
Did you know that a 0 w oil at a 75 degree morning start up ranks at a flow rate of 40? The same oil At 212 degrees flows at a level of 10,
You jump up to 10 w oil at 75 degrees the start up flow rate is a whooping 100!! but will flow at a 10 once operating temperature is reached.
Jump up to a straight 30 w and that start up cold flow is now 250. But, at operating temps also attains a 10.
Most engine wear happens at start up. The oil doesn't flow, doesn't lubricate well and the opportunity for metal to bearing contact is highest. You want to put an oil in there that best protects your engine at start up, even 85 degrees isn't warm enough to have the proper flow rate to protect your engine as you can see from my list up above. Ideally, If you installed a engine block heater and kept the engine at 200 degrees or so all night, this would be the best long term solution for your engine but this just doesn't happen and isn't practical.
My advice??
Drain that 10w oil and put in what the manufacturer recommends or accept the fact that your engine will indeed wear out faster with this oil in it instead of the 5w.
New engines also run a much tighter tolerance on bearing to crank clearances thus removing slop and friction and making the car run more efficiently. Thinner oil = less drag on the engine which in turn = more MPG's.
No matter what oil you decide to run, CHANGE IT FREQUENTLY!!! No mechanic has ever said to a customer "Gosh! You ruined your engine by doing too many oil changes" It may not make financial sense to change oil every week and some say that oil lubricates better after having been in the engine for a few hundred miles and getting "broken in", I'm not sure I buy that line of thinking though.
This information doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of oil technology and I've most likely not explained it well but hopefully you grasp the concept of what I'm trying to say about using the proper oil in the car as recommended by highly paid and educated engineers who design and test such devices.
Dave
I'm sorry sir, but have you spent the better part of the last year on a automtive site, a huge chunk of which is dedicated to discussion about motor oil? No? Then I would suggest you head over to www.bobistheoilguy.com and educate yourself. Some people like to run 10W-40 in cars specced for 5W-20 without issue. Really, in Texas, 10W-30 will be fine. I would start not recommending it when you start hitting 30 degrees or below, above it it is thin enough that it won't matter. Yes it is true that most wear occurs on startup, but the best way to minimize that is to use a filter with a good anti-drainback valve. At 65 degrees plus, the startup viscosity difference, and difference in time between lubrication between a 5w-30 and a 10w-30 is negligible to none.
That is the trouble with oil, many opinions, controversial fact, etc. Just because "some people like to run....." doesn't make it right now does it?
Start up is where most engine wear happens. Why exaggerate it and make it worse by using an oil that has a much worse flow rate when cold when the manufacturer clearly recommends a thinner base line oil?
Do as you wish, he asked for opinions, you have one, I have one and there are probably a million more of them out there to be given.
Enjoy you early engine rebuild.
Dave
Nick wrote:You could go even longer. With that oil and filter no problem. I'm running Quaker State Synthetic 5W-30, and a Purolator Classic filter. I'll probably run it 7,000 miles. If I had the PureONE or NAPA Gold,I'd run it to 8, 9k, but the classic has the Nitrile ADBV and I don't need a stiff anti-drainback in the middle of winter.
i still can't believe your'e telling people to run their oil to 8 or 9k miles. maybe nothing bad will happen with the right oil or filter but that's just ridiculous. 9k? that's just guaranteeing that the person get's lazy and stops caring.
A lot of new cars have a 10K interval.
Darkstars wrote:A lot of new cars have a 10K interval.
toyota for one thats why i laugh at their "2 years or 25000 miles free maintenance" thats 2 oil changes and 2 tire rotations
my acura manual says oil every 5000, oil and filter every 10000. i change both at 5k and use synthetic
I must agree with Dave on this one. The owners manual does recommend 5W-30, but states you can use 10W-30 if temperatures are above 0 degrees. I use to have my oil changed at the Stealership when they did it for around $19. Since the price went up to almost $29, I do it myself. Stealership used 10W-30, I use 5W-30 and have seen a slight increase in MPG and smoother running.
Leaving oil in for longer than 7500 miles is just asking for trouble. There are two schedules in the owners manual. One for city/short trips and one for highway driving. The first one you change the oil every 3000 miles/3 months. The second is every 7500 miles. Just a quick personal item, when I was at the Stealership a few years ago when I had 98,000 miles on the car, I asked the Service Manager if I should go to the higher mileage oil. He told me NO since I was doing regular oil changes at 3000 miles since I bought the car brand new. My car was well taken care of and I didn't need to use the higher mileage oil.
Kinnder, depending on how you drive your car is going to depend on when you change your oil according to the maintenance schedule in the owners manual.
98 Z24
RIP Specks
There is absolutely nothing wrong with running oil for longer than 3,000 miles. The measure of what shape oil is in is not in how "black" it is, as color means nothing. In truth, used oil is a better lubricant than new, fresh oil. The measure is in the ability of the oil to counteract the acidic components produced as a byproduct of combustion. There are plenty of cars that get their oil changed religiously at 3000 miles and the engine still dies before 100k miles. And there are engines with higher OCI that last longer. That is why the Engine oil life monitor, on new GM vehicles which actually uses a very complicated algorithm, which GM spent a lot of money and effort on, often has people running 8,000 miles or more on oil. If I was running Amsoil SSO, Mobil 1 EP, Castrol Edge, I'd run to 10k or longer. There is no evidence whatsoever that changing your oil every 3,000 miles will prolong the life of your engine.
Why do Jiffy lube and oil companies often recommend the 3,000 still? Do you think they would make money if people only got their oil changed every 7500 miles or more? Of course not! they want you to get it changed as often as possible so they make money. Hell, the new ford mustang V6/v8 IIRC recommennds 10,000 mile oil changes.
If in doubt about oil life, send a sample out to a quality lab for a while and they'll tell you EXACTLY what is in that oil and if it still has service life in it. It'll cost about $20 or so for each test but once you know, you can run with the oil change interval that best suits YOUR driving habits and engine and not just a generic one size fits all interval that is thrown out to the general public as a good safe average mileage.
You may spend a few bucks now, but down the road you could save significant $$'s by KNOWING how long to run your oil.
Me? I try to change at 5000 but don't worry if I go to 7000 or so. That is a mind settling number that I've come up with for ME over the decades that I've been driving cars. I also believe that 3000 is just too quick with modern oils. Back in the 50's and 60's when oil wasn't near as good as it is today, 3000 was a MAXIMUM number because the oil was quite simply shot and due for replacement..
Dave
david keevil wrote:If in doubt about oil life, send a sample out to a quality lab for a while and they'll tell you EXACTLY what is in that oil and if it still has service life in it. It'll cost about $20 or so for each test but once you know, you can run with the oil change interval that best suits YOUR driving habits and engine and not just a generic one size fits all interval that is thrown out to the general public as a good safe average mileage.
You may spend a few bucks now, but down the road you could save significant $$'s by KNOWING how long to run your oil.
Me? I try to change at 5000 but don't worry if I go to 7000 or so. That is a mind settling number that I've come up with for ME over the decades that I've been driving cars. I also believe that 3000 is just too quick with modern oils. Back in the 50's and 60's when oil wasn't near as good as it is today, 3000 was a MAXIMUM number because the oil was quite simply shot and due for replacement..
Dave
Exactly. I try to get UOAs when I can, just to make sure everything is ok. And it's true that oil has efinitely come a long way since the 3,000/3mo rule was the norm.
Ive been told that oil itself never loses it lubricating ability, its the dirt in the oil that causes the problems.
TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:Ive been told that oil itself never loses it lubricating ability, its the dirt in the oil that causes the problems.
Sort of. What happens is that oil contains the ability to neutralize acidic components produced by combustion, as well as combat fuel dilution, and anything else. The measure of this ability is a number known as TBN, or Total Base Number. The lower it is, the more "Worn out" the oil is. Depending on the lab that does the UOA, it may be 1, 2 or a different number that indicates the oil is used up. Synthetic oils, as well as long-run oils have much higher TBN, and TBN retention.
Here are some examples of UOAs, as well as a demonstration that 3,000 miles is much too soon to change the oil
This is the UOA from a 99 Toyota Corolla on Havoline Conventional, after 9,600 miles of use. Not the TBN is still a 1.6, (For Blackstone, 1 is worn out, most oils start between 7-10) indicating the oil is still in good condition. Also note that wear metals (iron, aluminum, copper, chromium are all very low, especially for such a long run)
Here is another from a Nissan Frontier with the 4.0L DOHC V6, after just under 7775 miles of use, oil is Pennzoil Platinum Synthetic 5W-30. Note the still very good TBN of 3.4. He could have likely gone 9,000 on it with no problems. Wear numbers on this are very good for a Nissan VQ series engine.
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt334/TWG1572/Snap1.jpg
