As you can see Dave sent this topic to the archives.
So let me do another one.

Only for 2000-2003 Getrag 5-speed found in Cavalier, Sunfire, Alero, Grand-AM

The issue here is, a grinding (pennies in a can) noise. You will hear it at 1000-2000 rpms, no matter what gear you are in, or neutral. The noise is there when the engine gets warm or hot or in normal operating range.

There have been close to 500 posts on this topic. We even had a Getrag repesentative here to tell us, whats the deal on this. We have had JBO members doing petitions, calling GM headquarters and Getrag to see if there was a fix. All of which is great contributions.

The problem here is (according to the Getrag company) is the that 3rd and 4th gear rattles. There have been service bulletins with good and bad outcomes. One of which is the overfill of Saturn tranny fluid (primary). If that does not work there is a washer that goes in between 3rd and 4th gear.
Other bulletins are available, but they don't pertain with the noise issue.

(General Motors) supposely knows about this and they are looking for a fix. When will it come out? We (the public) don't know as of now.

GM, Getrag, etc reads this. We are not invisble here, and I hope GM won't consider us "second class" because we drive a economical automobile. GM don't let us down on this.

Thank-you
please respond or make contributions on any find or fix.



<br>
Geo/G.T.
--------------------The original Mr.Goodwrench since 11/99--------------------

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update:
Well you know that I was going to get the washer put in this week. Well I got my car in today.

Result: THE NOISE IS STILL THERE! It seems as if nothing was done. I guess as of now I will have to wait for the new GM bulletin.
GM's tecnical support says if noise is still there after primary bulletin, to put in washer.

GM and Getrag, let me be your guinee pig. THE WASHER DID NOT WORK.

After so many tries the story still continues...

P.S. I want my rental back.

<br>
Geo/G.T.
--------------------The original Mr.Goodwrench since 11/99--------------------

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-------------JBO MEMBERS PLEASE POST ON THIS ONE------------.

Not the other post. Sorry people. Continue on this thread.

Thank-you <br>
Geo/G.T.
--------------------The original Mr.Goodwrench since 11/99--------------------

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-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

I think it's time to give up? Obviously there's a total design flaw with the transy, and all these bulletins are either temp fixes or don't fix it at all. I'm done with GM and Getrag. <br>

Dark blue 2002 Z24, 2.4 Ltr.

I hear ya loud and clear on this Wolf. <br>
Geo/G.T.
--------------------The original Mr.Goodwrench since 11/99--------------------

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>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

I wonder if Mercedes-Benz has a similar problems with their Getrag trannies; so, does Mercedes have a fix for it?
<br> ----

- Rob.

2002 Cavalier 2.2 Coupe - Millenium Yellow (Whatever that means)
2000 Honda CBR929RR Fireblade - Red/White/Purple (catch me)

From my understanding M-B does not have this problem. But they are known to be clunky and hard to put into gear, bad syncrhos.
I am not even sure if it is a Getrag at all. I think it is a inhouse M-B product. <br>
Geo/G.T.
--------------------The original Mr.Goodwrench since 11/99--------------------

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>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

Well I found this info posted once on a website somewhere. It seems to be an official statement from GM.
<B>Grinding/Rattle Type Noise Coming From Transmission (Diagnose and Perform Repair) #02-07-29-001 - (01/28/2002)</B>
Grinding/Rattle Type Noise Coming From Transmission (Diagnose and Perform Repair)
2000-02 Chevrolet Cavalier

2001-02 Oldsmobile Alero

2000-02 Pontiac Sunfire

2001-02 Pontiac Grand Am

with Manual Transmission (RPO M86 or M94)

<B><U>Condition</B></u>
Some customers may comment on a grinding or rattle type noise coming from the transmission. The noise usually occurs with the transmission in first or second gear at low RPMs and can be intermittent.

<b><u>Cause</b></u>
This condition may be originated by the natural harmonics of the engine that leads to a vibration in the transmission.

<b><u>Correction</b></u>
There are two separate noises. Follow the diagnostic procedures listed below to determine which noise the vehicle has and perform the outlined repair. If you are comparing like vehicles, you must compare vehicles with the same motor and similar mileage.

<b><u>Diagnosis for Noise #1</b></u>
This is a very distinct noise that is usually much louder than the second noise that can be associated with this transmission. If the vehicle is not making any noise when trying to verify the condition, it can be induced by making several tight left hand circles with the vehicle at normal operating temperature. Making a sharp right hand turn will usually stop the noise. While the noise is occurring, in order to distinguish between the two noises, you can press lightly on the clutch pedal without releasing the clutch and the noise will NOT go away or change. As a second diagnostic aid, while the vehicle is making the noise, shift to third gear and the noise will stop. If the noise is determined to be this type, perform the repair for noise #1.

<b><u>Repair for Noise #1</b></u>
Replace the transmission fluid with Saturn Manual Transmission Lubricant, P/N 21018899. Overfill to a capacity of 2.4L (2.6 qts). A possible side effect of this repair may be a higher shift effort.

1. Raise and support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in the General Information sub-section of the appropriate Service Manual.
2. Place a suitable container under the transmission assembly.
3. Remove the drain plug located on the bottom of the transmission and completely drain the fluid.
4. Re-install the drain plug. <b>Tighten</b>

Tighten the drain plug to 38N·m (28 lb ft).

5. Lower the vehicle.
6. Remove the fill plug located on the top/middle of transmission on the driver side, near the red vent cap. If you use the check level plug on the side of the transmission, you will not be able to overfill the transmission.

<b>Important
Fill the transmission to the amount specified. Too much lubricant will cause the fluid to leak from the vent. Not enough fluid will defeat the purpose of this bulletin.</b>


7. Fill the transmission with 2.4L (2.6 qts) of Saturn Manual Transmission Lubricant P/N 21018899. DO NOT USE THE RED VENT CAP TO FILL.
8. Re-install the fill plug. <b>Tighten</b>
Tighten the fill plug to 38 N·m(28 lb ft).

<b>Diagnosis for Noise #2</b>
This noise, commonly referred to as gear rattle, can be induced by lugging the engine in any gear, but is usually most noticeable in first or second gear. While the noise is occurring, if you press lightly on the clutch pedal without releasing the clutch, the noise will be reduced or eliminated.

<b>Repair for Noise #2</b>
Do not attempt to repair this noise. This is a characteristic of the vehicle and any vehicle equipped with a manual transmission can be made to make a similar noise. Driving at slightly higher engine RPM levels will reduce this noise.

<b>Parts Information</b>
Part Number 21018899
Description Lubricant, Saturn Manual Transmission
QTY 3


Parts are currently available from GMSPO.
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2000 2200 Cavalier: 9/14/2000--10/23/2006
2007 G85 SS S/C: 10/23/2006--Present
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Here is a question. I have a 2002 LS Sport, with a 5-speed. Is there anything I can do to PREVENT this noise from happening? I only have about 1600 miles on my car right now, and no noise.


Any opinions???

Thanks,

Chris <br> Niles, Michigan

Currently:
'02 LS Sport, 5 speed
'89 Z-24, 2.8, 5 speed
'01 Suzuki GSXR 600

No longer with me:
'97 Grand Prix GTP
'94 Camaro Z-28, 6 speed
'98 Suzuki TL1000R

I doubt you can prevent it. I have mostly given up on this noise being repaired. In the last 15k miles that I have had my car, I have learned to drive the getrag to lessen and mostly eliminate the noise. I think driving the way I do now, wears the clutch horribly.

Hopefully something good comes out of this.

Brian

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Mr.Goodwrench-G.T.,

I had the "washer fix" done back in October and I told you then it did not work.

What about those guys that have put in an aftermarket clutch. Did teh noise go away?

I have no idea what you guys are talking about maybe it takes awhile to occur or it doesnt happen to everyone but mines fine im up to 11k miles <br>
Comfort is for the weak, Performace is for the strong
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1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

sup guys i have had the same noise as what u guys r talking about on november 11 i blew my first tranny that had the same noise, so i replaced it, a week ago i had the noise come back on the new tranny on my car and i was worried, little did i no that the next day it was my tranny again, 2 make a long story short im a machanic and i was pissed off cuz it happend again so at my shop i had 1 blown tranny from a customers car with the same problem and i had mine at home, so i took apart both of them and what did i find, i found that on both trannies the spider gears in the differential where all stripped, there for just make sure u guys have money 4 a tow truck handy. i hope i helped a bit on the tipic if any1 wants 2 reach me 4 more info email me at vtec_racing79@hotmail.com by the way i drive a 98 sunfire gt. peace out

porcshe and bmw mini's don't seem to have any problems with their getrag trannys. i haven't noticed the sound yet on my '02 ls sport. 9100 miles and no noise.

paul_rocha: The sound we are describing actually doesnt cause any damage like that.


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after reading all the other posts, i tried running my rpm's a little higher, and that seemed to help, but after about a month and a half of doing that, i find that my clutch is starting to go. It is very hard to put into gear. SOO, becareful when trying this, cause chances are you are going to blow your clutch if you do it to much. *just a side note*

to me the noise being able to be indused by making the sharp turns would say that they should be looking in the area of the differential .

I don't remember ever hearing this noise out of my car but it does have my curiosity going . can someone record this noise and post it . I know I have a noise coming out of the front end but it is associated with me nailing a huge rock that was in the middle of the road and messing up the hub on my car . I would actually like to tear into one of these tranny's to see what might be lose or scrapping . <br> <img src=registry/mrgoodwrench/personal_pic.jpg>

<a href="http://users.adelphia.net/~rdbryant1/index.html.html"><img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/mrgoodwrench/personal_pic.jpg" border=4></a>

i still say its marbles. <br> <img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/rudie/underconstruction.jpg">

Pyros: thanks for the info. But I think there is a updated number on it from April or June 2002. I could be wrong

clwcrw: A simple answer is no. If you don't have it, consider yourself lucky. Acoording to Getrag, mid 2002 models got this washer in to get the noise out. So claim the noise is still not there but many say it is still there.

Cherry Sleeper:

Tim DeLucca: I remember reading on this. That it did not work. But I could not remember who. But anyhow it was worth a try. As long as I get this documented is what really matters. But yes it did not work.

Steve-O: Some swear that noise went away. But the clutch has nothing to do with it. So, I duuno. -?-

M38: If you don't have the noise consider yourself lucky. But when in dought, go to quiet area (no road noise) and accelerate the car around 1000-2000 rpm in nuetral at 0 mph. If the sound around is different around 1000-2000 rpms than 2000-6000. Chances are you have the noise. You will here a grinding noise that sound very cheap.

paul rocha: That is a diffrent problem, though.

JM: It seems to happen only to one the ones metioned M86 or M94

Kyle: Good call,thanks

robert bryant: By all means if you can go for it.

my engine is upside-down: LOL

-Keep em coming-


<br>
Geo/G.T.
--------------------The original Mr.Goodwrench since 11/99--------------------

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>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

Actually thats THE most recent version of it, I double checked just to make sure.

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2000 2200 Cavalier: 9/14/2000--10/23/2006
2007 G85 SS S/C: 10/23/2006--Present
Vote for me at Motortopia.com! Thanks!

Just got the washer installed as well as the Clutch Actuator pipe....

Noise is still there...although I dont think its as bad as it was. Its hard to tell cause its like -15 degrees right now. But after the pipe install the clutch feels totally different. I actually grinded a few gears when I first went to pull away from the dealership...lol

MYC <br> 2002 Yellow 5sp Coupe with Sport Package, RK sport CAI, 2.5" Magnaflow exhaust, B&M short shifter and custom Lloyds mats.

Give it a day or two with the actuator pipe buletin. My clutch engaged real near the floor afterwards but it adjusted it's self and now it's back to the way it was, just no vibration <br> <img src="http://home.nycap.rr.com/nyjs/JonSig4s.jpg">
To Join the NY J's email me at jfrench2@nycap.rr.com or go to The NY J's Offical Website!

Mine still makes that noise after 3 yrs of owning it. Guess we need to do something....
<br> Jeremy Nebraska Region SCCA Mid-America Motorplex SCCA Homepage Member Off Camber

I've been watching you guys go on about this for awhile now, I've got a 2000 z24 with this tranny I got it used and since the first day I had it the tranny made noise I don't know if its the same noise, mine sounds like a lot of vibrating coming from the engine bay and the higher the rpm's the worse it gets and my clutch pedal vibrates like crazy, I can feel it and hear it my best friend who cant even change a spare tire can hear it and questions it, I tought my girlfriends best friend how to drive a standard on this car (Dam I"ve Got Guts) and she questions the vibration in the pedal, the salesman at GM could feel and hear it, but they say theres nothing wrong, and that me and three other people are just hearing things. I don't know if this is anything that you guys are dealing with, so if it is I know some what what im dealing if it's not the same could somebody give me an idea to work with, just about to go and change to a duel friction clutch just to see if it will change anything <br>