Do any piston manufacturers make high-compression pistons for Ecotec's yet? I have seen a ton of manufacturers (JE, Arias, Wiseco, etc.) that make 10.0:1 and below but nothing higher than stock. Do people just not do high-RPM N/A performance on Ecotecs?
I commend you for going N/A. That's something many people avoid especially when you can build a turbo kit for night to day horsepower differences. To my knowledge, there is no manufacturer out there that makes high compression pistons for our Eco's. I may be wrong because I don't keep up with what you're looking for though.
Saab Turbo Project... 2006
That majorly sucks! I was going to build a high compression N/A eco too. I think someone said if you call JE directly they can make any compression ratio you want.. But I'm not sure.
2004 Cavalier
13.2@105........
Mods...
BFG Drag Radials
Saab Turbo kit
2.5 exhaust, w/cutout
Spec Stage 2+ Clutch
wiseco or any of those companies would make them if there was interest or even just a special order thats what im going to do also is go 11:1 N/A but ill need valve reliefs in mine as well casue of my cams it can be done just hasnt really been explored yet
The one, the only, ME.
ECOTEC wrote:That majorly sucks! I was going to build a high compression N/A eco too. I think someone said if you call JE directly they can make any compression ratio you want.. But I'm not sure.
You can do it...you just have to contact them and they will make whatever compression you want.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Also, it usually takes longer to make.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
cuz high compression usually means higher revs... no way to really get past the rev limiter without a megasquirt or something to that extent.. plus trying to keep the ecu happy is hard on ecotecs. shaving the head and running a thinner headgasket also helps
John H [Cavalierkid wrote:]cuz high compression usually means higher revs... no way to really get past the rev limiter without a megasquirt or something to that extent.. plus trying to keep the ecu happy is hard on ecotecs. shaving the head and running a thinner headgasket also helps
Pretty much. Go too high and your computer will start to throw knock codes etc etc.
Also, running high compression is iffy because the higher compression you run, the higher octane fuel you'll need. Not sure if you play with ignition timing if the octane issue goes away a bit but it still plays a big part.
In my opinion, running a high compression all motor 4 cylinder vehicle is hard to do and gains are going to be much less for us because we don't have something like Variable Valve Timing to manipulate to supply us with more airflow...this is why people lead to boost. Plain and simple, you need air to make power...our 4 cylinder motors aren't going to naturally bring in as much airflow as an forced inducted vehicle.
Now and days, if you're trying to stay all motor because you can't afford a turbo or a supercharger...well...for the gains, you're gonna end up probably spending the same amount as you would on a turbo setup and if you don't do the motor work yourself and pay someone...you're gonna be paying a pretty penny and depending on how you engineer your motor, you probably won't come close to the gains of a turbocharged motor that can turn up their boost controller in a matter of seconds and blow you away.
These are things to think about...is it worth ripping apart your motor for gains that you'll probably be un happy with? Is it worth it to be on the edge of knocking? Are you worried about fuel consumption and gas mileage? How much money do you plan on seriously spending on your motor? What are your HP goals and do you seriously think you'll make it running X compression?
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Oh and Roy, you'll never beat me All motor vs. Turbo...you're gonna need the juice biznitch! I'll see you at the bash!
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Well, NJHK, you hit the nail pretty much on the head... I just feel like the little steps are easier to take than to take that multi-thousand-dollar plunge with a turbo/supercharger kit. I'm in college now working part time so the money isn't exactly flowing in... I just find it hard to believe I will be able to save that kinda money any time soon so I figured I'd just do the part-by-part... but you're probably right... Tuning an N/A Eco isn't quite the same as tuning an N/A H22 or B18 like my Honda buddies... I also don't have the technical knowledge to be able to put together my own turbo kit like some people... but oh well...
Tim wrote:I also don't have the technical knowledge to be able to put together my own turbo kit like some people... but oh well...
That's the biggest
excuse I've ever heard. These forums (and many others) are PACKED with all the information you would ever need to do this. When I came to these boards after I got my car, I had
0 knowledge in the field, and now I'm well on my way to a fully built engine and second turbo setup (on a part-time college salary none-the-less). And if you say you don't want to do the research, you probably shouldn't be in college
Also, an NA buildup is going to cost much more than a turbo kit, unless you happen to own a machine shop on the side. Remember, you can't just drop those pistons in, you have to have the block honed (and possibly bored), and you're going to need new rods (unless you use the stockers, but then you'd need to have the old pins pressed out and back in again which just adds to the cost). This means complete disassembly of your block, which means all new gaskets and bolts and possibly bearings as well. Now looking at this, people think "well, I'll just do it all at once", until they realize the final price is much more than a turbo setup. This is why people don't go NA, big investment, little results.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
OHV notec wrote:Tim wrote:I also don't have the technical knowledge to be able to put together my own turbo kit like some people... but oh well...
That's the biggest excuse I've ever heard. These forums (and many others) are PACKED with all the information you would ever need to do this. When I came to these boards after I got my car, I had 0 knowledge in the field, and now I'm well on my way to a fully built engine and second turbo setup (on a part-time college salary none-the-less). And if you say you don't want to do the research, you probably shouldn't be in college
Also, an NA buildup is going to cost much more than a turbo kit, unless you happen to own a machine shop on the side. Remember, you can't just drop those pistons in, you have to have the block honed (and possibly bored), and you're going to need new rods (unless you use the stockers, but then you'd need to have the old pins pressed out and back in again which just adds to the cost). This means complete disassembly of your block, which means all new gaskets and bolts and possibly bearings as well. Now looking at this, people think "well, I'll just do it all at once", until they realize the final price is much more than a turbo setup. This is why people don't go NA, big investment, little results.
Sorry Tim but OHV Notec speaks the absolute truth. In a couple weeks I'm getting my turbo setup installed in my car....this isn't a kit that came with everything, this was a kit that I bough part by part myself, and guess what...before I started buying any of these parts I knew about 10% of how turbocharged systems worked completely and what parts do what. In about a 2 1/2 month span I have learned so much from different people (the right people) and have reached a point of understanding that I never though I'd reach. Who knew months before this that I actually knew what a wastegate was and what it did? I probably have 2 more weeks of buying little stuff but I am just about done ordering parts.
I did it myself and my way, part by part and learned ALOT in the process. If I can do it, you can do it as well. I bought probably 1-2 parts a week if not I would save up for a specific part and purchase it and then go to the next one, kind of like a mental checklist I had.
Now I fully understand that you're in college but you would be suprised how much money people spend and don't realize how much they could actually save. I know at one point back when I wanted $1200 for my cylinder head package, I stopped eating fast food completely and didn't joy ride as much...I got that money in 1 month and saved hundreds of dollars without even trying. It's all about self control, prioritizing and just using your head... "Do I really need these $100 sneakers when I already have 3 good pairs at home? No"...stuff like that.
He is also correct as well about doing a part by part with an N/A setup. Say you spend $500 on a set of pistons, then you have to pay a shop to open up your motor and install them for $1,000-1,300....a month later, you buy $400 rods, now you have pay another $1,000-1,300 to open up your motor AGAIN and install it. So look right there...you just spent atleast $2900 and for what? I bet you wouldn't gain much in the process because you still don't have a set game plan of what you want to do. That's where this "part by part" idea usually "F"s people in the "A"...pistons and rods aren't bolt ons, that's something you can do part by part, they are major motor pieces and thought needs to go behind what you do to your motor before you open it.
Even still, if you went N/A with a game plan, it still comes down to this...
Quote:
This is why people don't go NA, big investment, little results.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Save up what you would spend on the little steps, and before long you will be able to do a big step.
"I know not with what weapons World War III
will be fought, but World War IV will be fought
with sticks and stones."
-Albert Einstine-
Quote:
Also, running high compression is iffy because the higher compression you run, the higher octane fuel you'll need. Not sure if you play with ignition timing if the octane issue goes away a bit but it still plays a big part.
exactly, we dont have a distributer to be able to change timing.
Quote:
In my opinion, running a high compression all motor 4 cylinder vehicle is hard to do and gains are going to be much less for us because we don't have something like Variable Valve Timing to manipulate to supply us with more airflow...this is why people lead to boost. Plain and simple, you need air to make power...our 4 cylinder motors aren't going to naturally bring in as much airflow as an forced inducted vehicle.
exactly. its easy for hondas to run 11:1 compression or even 11.5:1 compression on pump fuel. specially with the ability to change timing
Quote:
Now and days, if you're trying to stay all motor because you can't afford a turbo or a supercharger...well...for the gains, you're gonna end up probably spending the same amount as you would on a turbo setup and if you don't do the motor work yourself and pay someone...you're gonna be paying a pretty penny and depending on how you engineer your motor, you probably won't come close to the gains of a turbocharged motor that can turn up their boost controller in a matter of seconds and blow you away.
aggred with honda being the only exception. the fact that u can do a 11:1 compressing ls/vtec for under 2k incluiding buying the engine. plus with the weight advantage. a 2000lb crx or hatch only needs about 220whp to run in the 12s.
Quote:
This is why people don't go NA, big investment, little results.
jeez adams on a roll like a huncback doin summer saults.lol
yeah even if u think dropping 3k on a turbo kit at once is alot of money.. the power per $ ratio is perfect. pick up about 100whp on a stock engine. or spend 200 on an intake and pick up 3-4whp.
i agree 100% as far as it wouldnt be smart to go all motor with a jbody. (with the few exceptions of karo and a few others on here) but im willing to be karo has alot more money then 3k into his engine to be running the times he does, as well as extensive weight reduction.
ive sold a set of 11;1 compression pistons for an ecotec before.... also, currently, I have another set on order for a customer which I hope I should have soon..... but yes you can get them...
oh yeah... ive seen ecotec pistons as high 16;1 on the all motor ecotec engines......
You see though, I have an engine just laying around so I can just switch it with the stock one and then build up that one for some serious power.
I just wanted to take mine a step up from stock. Slightly higher compression pistons, a mild Port and polish, Stainless Steel valves, remove the balance shafts, and maybe the LZM cams. Then get everything balanced and drop in that engine. Hopefully run Consistent 14's and maybe some mid or even low 14's on a good day.
Karo what brands of pistons do you carry? I might email you for some prices.
2004 Cavalier
13.2@105........
Mods...
BFG Drag Radials
Saab Turbo kit
2.5 exhaust, w/cutout
Spec Stage 2+ Clutch
04eco (theN/Aautoone) wrote:real men go N/A 
haha
yeah...with V8s LOL
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
all you boosted haters will see lol
The one, the only, ME.
04eco (theN/Aautoone) wrote:all you boosted haters will see lol
...you in our rear view mirrors LOL
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Quote:
I just wanted to take mine a step up from stock. Slightly higher compression pistons, a mild Port and polish, Stainless Steel valves, remove the balance shafts, and maybe the LZM cams. Then get everything balanced and drop in that engine. Hopefully run Consistent 14's and maybe some mid or even low 14's on a good day
the thing is u need ecu work for all that... the stock ecu will not like lzm cams and and P&P head together
Just do what you want. N/A or boost. If you want insane power, get a turbo setup. If you want some extra noise and get up and go, then stick N/A. Either way, kudos for deciding to mod what you got and good luck with whatever you'll do.
Saab Turbo Project... 2006
if you're going N/A this should just about cover you and any problems youll have or something simliar and if that setup doesnt keep up with a boosted car i be disappointed
Patriot head, 11:1 pistons, .020 overbore, Rods and bearings, Balance crank/rotating assembly, Drag radials, 14” wheels, Koni yellows, Control arm bushings, 62mm TB, Standalone, ARP head studs, Cometic .030 gasket, Intake, Injectors if needed, Fuel pump also if needed, LSD, Exhaust cut out, intake, pacesetter 4-1 header, 2.25 piping, 2.25 catco cat, 24" 2.25 cherrybomb glasspack, upper and lower mounts, B&M shiftplus, Yank 2900 stall converter, JBP stage 2 cams, balance shafts removed
The one, the only, ME.
04eco (theN/Aautoone) wrote:if you're going N/A this should just about cover you and any problems youll have or something simliar and if that setup doesnt keep up with a boosted car i be disappointed
Patriot head, 11:1 pistons, .020 overbore, Rods and bearings, Balance crank/rotating assembly, Drag radials, 14” wheels, Koni yellows, Control arm bushings, 62mm TB, Standalone, ARP head studs, Cometic .030 gasket, Intake, Injectors if needed, Fuel pump also if needed, LSD, Exhaust cut out, intake, pacesetter 4-1 header, 2.25 piping, 2.25 catco cat, 24" 2.25 cherrybomb glasspack, upper and lower mounts, B&M shiftplus, Yank 2900 stall converter, JBP stage 2 cams, balance shafts removed
And that's just parts...now total that up and then add onto labor...
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
