ive searched as best i can, but cant seem to find the answer. does anyone know if its possible to put lash caps on an LD9?

or...

does anyone happen to have it measured already or have a head they can measure to determine the distance between the tip of the valve and the lock?

either one would be helpful, but the measurement would be most helpful. unfortunately i dont have my spare head in my possession yet.

thanks,
rob.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

I don't think any company has specifically made lash caps for an LD9. However, if you can find 10° retainers and locks to match a set of lash caps and the LD9 valve, I don't see why the LD9 can't have lash caps. It's just a normal poppet valve. Although, I personally don't know why you would want to go through the effort of finding a combo that will work. You plan to spin 9k+ rpms and worried about dropping a valve? If not, this sounds like a waste of time and money to me.




I have no signiture

im working on getting a set of cams ground for my LD9 and the guy grinding the cams is worried that there may not be enough preload on the lifters. is there any type of lifter that can be put in to help with preload?


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

Solid lifters would work best, but I'm not going to recommend them because adjusting lash is going to be a huge pain in the ass on the Quad4/LD9 due to our direct cam lobe to lifter orientation. Unless you have an incredible high ramp rate on the cams, the stock hydraulic should work fine. For reference, guys here and Quad4forums have used as high as .450" lift and 230+ deg duration cams on their stock hydraulic 35mm lifters. Do you know the specs of the cams they are grinding for you?




I have no signiture

not as of yet, the cams are going to be a new experimental grind. Colt Cams is working on it for me, so i would assume that it wouldnt be all that far off from his stage 2 grind which is...

intake: 260* and 377
exhaust: 268* and 375

i know guys are running the 410's and 450's on the stock lifters. Geoff at Colt Cams is just worried that once the cam get ground down, there may not be enough preload on the lifters, hence the lash caps. they might not even be needed at all, but i dont have a head here to take the measurements from that he requires to find out. the head should be on its way soon though, but until then im just waiting.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

Have them ground from a set of LD2 .375/200* cams then.......

Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

yeah i could do that, but even though they have a little more lift, the LD2's still dont have have alot of duration.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

whitegoose wrote:not as of yet, the cams are going to be a new experimental grind. Colt Cams is working on it for me, so i would assume that it wouldnt be all that far off from his stage 2 grind which is...

intake: 260* and 377
exhaust: 268* and 375

i know guys are running the 410's and 450's on the stock lifters. Geoff at Colt Cams is just worried that once the cam get ground down, there may not be enough preload on the lifters, hence the lash caps. they might not even be needed at all, but i dont have a head here to take the measurements from that he requires to find out. the head should be on its way soon though, but until then im just waiting.

Are those advertised durations or measured at .050" lift? If it's at .050" lift, I really don't see how you could keep it streetable.





I have no signiture

i didnt see any indication that it was a measured duration, so i would assume its advertised. i could be wrong. next time i talk to Geoff i will try to remember to ask.

thats the other reason im looking at triflows. with triflow cams theres alot less of a blurb like you have a lumpy cam in there because of the way its designed. they should also be alot more streetable and suited to something daily driven as well.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

The thing to keep in mind about Geoff's Tri-Flows is that the valve timing events for each intake & each exhaust valve per cylinder is different from what I understand (different lobe centers)

The total valve timing may indeed be 260/268 at .050", but the individual valve timing events I would expect to be significantly less.....but I'm just speculating.





Innovative Tuning

HPTuner Custom Tuning
Superchips Dealer

innovativetuning@rogers.com
innovative_tuning@rogers.com

whitegoose wrote:yeah i could do that, but even though they have a little more lift, the LD2's still dont have have alot of duration.

YOU ARE GRINDING ANYWAYS. THIS WAY YOU GRIND LESS OFF, (NO NEED FOR LASH CAPS)


GRIND THE LD2 CAMS TO FIT YOUR DURATION YOU WANT.


Copy?

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Shane @ Innovative Tuning wrote:The thing to keep in mind about Geoff's Tri-Flows is that the valve timing events for each intake & each exhaust valve per cylinder is different from what I understand (different lobe centers)

The total valve timing may indeed be 260/268 at .050", but the individual valve timing events I would expect to be significantly less.....but I'm just speculating.

I got thinking about this some more......thats got to be a seat to seat duration.




Innovative Tuning

HPTuner Custom Tuning
Superchips Dealer

innovativetuning@rogers.com
innovative_tuning@rogers.com

Taetsch Z-24 wrote:

whitegoose wrote:yeah i could do that, but even though they have a little more lift, the LD2's still dont have have alot of duration.

YOU ARE GRINDING ANYWAYS. THIS WAY YOU GRIND LESS OFF, (NO NEED FOR LASH CAPS)


GRIND THE LD2 CAMS TO FIT YOUR DURATION YOU WANT.


Copy?

Chris

I think he is going with a fresh grind from blanks and not a regrind of a stock cam. To get the kind of duration he wants and the "Triflow" method of phased valve openings... without welding material onto the lobe itself, Colt would have to cut down significantly, which would increase the valve to lobe height.




I have no signiture

they are being ground from LD9 cams, not LD2. they are not fresh blanks. a cam with more material could be of a big benefit to get these done. something like LD2 cams or those unfinished cams some one posted that are for sale on ebay would have been good.

anyways, its not verified yet that lash caps are even needed, but its a cautionary speculation. when the head gets here, i can measure it up and find out.


as for how the triflow works, from what Geoff explained to me, the valves get actuated almost as a primary and secondary valve. they both close at the same time from my understanding, but one of the valves would open before the other, so the ramping is different from one lobe to the next.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

well in doing a little bit more research, i have found some stuff on quad4 forums that mentioned the use of lash caps and shims being added to the lifters. this was typically mentioned when people discussed switching over to solid lifters. i also so it in a discussion about getting a custom cam made that would have .500 lift.

so, it seems shimming it may be possible to add preload on the lifters, but can the stock hydraulic lifters still be shimmed like such or is this only for solid lifters? i alos found mantion of similar things on mantaparts website, again in reference to switching to solid lifters.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

Shims are how you set lash on a Quad4 with solid lifters, which is why I originally said...

Whalesac wrote:Solid lifters would work best, but I'm not going to recommend them because adjusting lash is going to be a huge pain in the ass on the Quad4/LD9 due to our direct cam lobe to lifter orientation.

If Colt knows exactly how much they take off from the opposite side of the cam centerline (where the valve is completely closed), I think shims would be a great idea. Although, I'm still not convinced yet that you will need lash caps. If it will make you sleep better at night, then maybe you should invest in lash caps and 10 degree retainers and locks. I personally wouldn't.




I have no signiture

its unsure if they are needed yet. im just doing as much research as i can so there is less bumps in the road.

Colt Cams doesnt yet know how much is coming off i think... i havent sent him the cams yet so how knows how much is even left on the lobes to remove.

anyways, once the head gets here, im going to start measuring some things with a vernier and that should answer the questions.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

rob... he does have a set of stock ld9 cams at his disposal so he does know whats on them as far as 'meat' to manipulate.

im going to send him all the necessary stuff including a 95 intake cam so he can get an idea on what were talking about and if its even possible.

but.. you can do this all to, im just wanting to get this done and done soon so i can finish building my engine.



I believe I can see the future... as I repeat the same routine....

sounds good. i dont have anything to send him at the moment as im still waiting on my parts to come in. thanks for the interest in this though


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH