This is something thats kinda made me wonder for the past few years what people were thinking? Sure the first 2-3 cars on here that had this done were unique, not all of them fast. Prior to the eco it was prob the only way you could get serious power. However the game has changed and the eco is a killer engine with the aftermarket to back it up. So my thoughts are why on earth are folks still going through the trouble of doing L67 swaps, it makes no sense.
In order to even make it work you have to practically gut the entire front clip and rebuild the frame of course at extra cost. Theres an obvious weight difference between the engines, this affects handling, acceleration and braking in negative ways. The cost of wiring harness, the engine computer, the engine itself. A L67 is far more expensive than a L61 alot of times even used motors go for more than a brand new crate L61. Even after you get it all in 10,000 dollars later what do you have, 240-260 crank horsepower with a M90 Heaton. Maybe with pullies and some cooling mods 260-280whp. Then of course you have a setup that won't run for @!#$ at the track in the summer just like any other roots type supercharged car. Then you might spend even more on water methanol injection trying to fight that. You might even get to 300whp on a cold day.
With all that money spent think of what you could have done with a turbo eco, less weight, less cost, less work, less hassle, more power. On the cost of the above project you can build a virtually bulletproof engine with far more power, better acceleration, braking, gas mileage, handling. I'm really failing to see a single benefit of the L67? Yes we all know Raven is fast but at what cost? How much has been spent, how much faster would it be with that money spent on a ecotec? I bet you the Hahn sunfire was cheaper, and its faster.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Hmmmm VERY well said. Only bonus I see is the wow factor?
emails*
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, July 06, 2009 9:07 PM
LE61T PTE6262 Powered 
nice thread,have an eco,still fooling with basic bolt on's but was seriously thinking of one day going with a v6 swap......but the more and more i read about the eco the more and more i love it.
If you have an eco already in the car, you would be a fool to put something else in
That like guys that put carburetors on brand new cars. Congrats you just lost horsepower, all because your too dumb to know anything but how to turn a screw for air fuel adjustment. It boggles my mind why work against proven modern engineering? GM is somewhat odd in their thinking, I don't think any of us would question that, but they do know a thing or two about engine management and if carbs were so great everyone would still be using them.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, July 06, 2009 9:39 PM
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
why the 3800 swaps? Why not?
Why do you have a Harrop TVS on your balt? Why did you buy a 3rd gen turbo firebird? Because you wanted to. Same reason for the L67 swaps.
Tinkles
2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown
I don't see the point your trying to make, I did a blower swap utilizing the already good potential of my engine. I did not choose to pick an older, less efficient, less powerful engine and swap it in at an outrageous cost. I did the smart thing, not the stupid thing. Theres always the people that want to make everything RWD and put a small block in it too. Theres already some moron on cobaltss.net trying to do just that, he's spent like 30-40k and doesn't even have anywhere close to a running car. Just because you want to do it doesnt negate the fact that your choosing a more difficult, expensive, and less performance path. Most of these folks doing these swaps are expecting some kind of legendary track times just because they have a V6 instead of a 4 cylinder and the reality is most of them will not see it and are going to wind up very disappointed.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Monday, July 06, 2009 9:47 PM
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
whoa,relax buddy lol,i'm still workin on learnin all this and for some reason i just kinda figured ya know bigger engine bigger performance,i'm learning slowly,lol that the ecotec is a great engine,the v6 swap was just an idea i was kinda toying with for the future
Bigger engine, bigger performance is a 50 year old concept that no longer applies to today's cars.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
ok i get it.like i said i'm still trying to learn so sorry if i'm a little slow to my knowledge on cars/engines i was only commenting that i liked the thread you wrote up
we are all here to learn
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
BS!!!!! We awll no if ya put a 6fitty double pumper on that thar little wind up carrrh, yud be runnin bout 2 secons bedder in tha 1/4!!!!!! dont need no fancy compooter messin with yer timin and stuff!!!!!
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
for a minute there i thought u were gonna b a dick!j/k man.lol,really though i guess i had'nt read enough on them to see that it would really effect handling,braking blah blah blah that much,i just saw that in alot of instances you could use same tranny and i guess i just saw it as a good idea from there
Computers are smarter than most people, especially rednecks. Perhaps thats why they are so afraid of them.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Matt, you are looking at this too technically. You are looking for some reason why the L67 is better than the eco, but as you know a S/C eco is about the same as the L67. There isnt a technical answer, they swap them because it is their choice.
Rodimus Prime wrote:Bigger engine, bigger performance is a 50 year old concept that no longer applies to today's cars.
Uh huh, sure...
707 cubic inch engine. 1300hp N/A
Where is the 1000hp+ N/A 4 banger?
Yes the HP vs Liter will never be as good as a 700hp 4-banger, but you do get alot more room to work with. Hence the reason you dont see top fuel, funny cars, etc using 4 bangers.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, July 06, 2009 10:21 PM
Tinkles
2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown
(wonders if truly he could be a redneck?????)
If you can do your own fabricating and are good at wiring I dont see an l67 swap coming to anywhere near $10k. i can get one from a pick n pull for under $200. Get new rings, bearings, and a gasket set, while its apart a reground cam can be had for $75 plus shipping if you know the right places. Sure youll need the wiring and ecm from the donor car so thats less than $100. I'll P&P my heads while im at it. At this point you have a pretty strong engine that still costs less than an ecotec pushing out the same power with less torque. Buy a megasquirt and a turbo instead of the supercharger, again wouldnt cost too much more than turboing an ecotec. I know the l67 will be pushing out a hella lot more power. Still not seeing it being anywhere near $10k. Not to mention it sounds better too. Sure there will be lots of custom work and many hours getting it done but the end result has more potential in my opinion and i dont see it costing more than a built eco if you do the fab work and wiring yourself. yeah its more complicated but i see the higher potential.
Im not trying to say that the ecotec isn a good engine, same with quads and ld9s. I just dont agree with your line of thinking on this. I do think if your not going for 350 or more hp that this swap is probably a waste due to all the hard work put into it, but beyond that i think it would dominate the eco.
Now rwd cavaliers n cobalts, that is retarded expensive. Sure itd sound cool n look neat but youd have to have a bit of money to play with. And I agree with the retarded carb thing too.
The GM race ecos make 1450hp, its in the build book, the info is out there, no need for a 707 cubic inch engine to make that power, I dont know of many engines period that can be built to make 1450hp with as much OEM as the eco
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Tinkles wrote:Matt, you are looking at this too technically. You are looking for some reason why the L67 is better than the eco, but as you know a S/C eco is about the same as the L67. There isnt a technical answer, they swap them because it is their choice.
Rodimus Prime wrote:Bigger engine, bigger performance is a 50 year old concept that no longer applies to today's cars.
Uh huh, sure...
707 cubic inch engine. 1300hp N/A
Where is the 1000hp+ N/A 4 banger?
Yes the HP vs Liter will never be as good as a 700hp 4-banger, but you do get alot more room to work with. Hence the reason you dont see top fuel, funny cars, etc using 4 bangers.
VERY well said.
Also, I like the 'eco was the savior of the J for power' undertone of the OP.....
LD9's are for real 'out of the box thinkers and DO-ERS', eco's are for finger clickers who like to buy parts off the internet...the realistic power potential for either is roughly the same. But I agree, the L67 swap leaves me wondering why somewhat...but I can see the wow factor being big too.
This thread makes me want to buy a 03+ cavi and do a LD9 swap!...FTW
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
I am curious what the cost of a 1450 hp eco is. But i do agree the eco is the most OEM supported engine for our vehicles. but i still think other engines can be built for higher numbers with less cost.
The eco is the only real choice for reliable big time power at an affordable price for the J. Sure few folks have made big numbers with the 2.4, but its 20 years older and its also much heavier, theres no aftermarket for it either. Same deal with the L67, it wayyyy heavier. Not to make this into a eco vs. 2.4 thread but seriously ".the realistic power potential for either is roughly the same", I couldn't disagree more. You can count on one hand the number of folks with a running 2.4 over 300whp. Theres dozens of ecos and more everyday well exceeding that with far less work and cost involved. Not to mention far better gas mileage and reliability. Taking out a eco in a 03 and putting in a LD9 would be one of the single dumbest things anyone has ever done on this site.
Other engines can be built to make more power for a lesser cost but not for a J. Honda motors make far more power with less money.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, July 06, 2009 10:55 PM
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
^Sure, but does anybody care about OEM support? If you do....fine...a good solid 300hp may be possible for reasonable prices. Past that your spending serious cash on parts that other companies do cheaper...so who really cares about OEM support?
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
Rodimus Prime wrote:The eco is the only real choice for reliable big time power at an affordable price for the J.
Ignorance at it's finest
Rodimus Prime wrote:You can count on one hand the number of folks with a running 2.4 over 400whp.
I fixed that for ya.
Rodimus Prime wrote:Theres dozens of ecos and more everyday well exceeding that with far less work and cost involved.
No there is not
Rodimus Prime wrote:Not to mention far better gas mileage and reliability.
Seriously?
Are you smoking crack?...better gas milage...LOL How can you even tell a difference between the two.....gay.
Rodimus Prime wrote:Taking out a eco in a 03 and putting in a LD9 would be one of the single dumbest things anyone has ever done on this site.
But not quite as bad as this thread!
The biggest difference between big power mod lists for the LD9 and eco:
On the mod list for an LD9 J you will find the words: Custom, Machined, Fabricated, Designed
The mod list for an Eco powered J you will find the words: JE, Weisco, Darton, Eaton, Comp Cams, GMPP, ect. - Just dropping names....hoorah!
It's the good old line in the sand...separating the men from the boys.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, July 06, 2009 11:12 PM
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
Matt, the ecotec is not the savor of GM's 4-bangers. Just because there are more 300hp+ ecos than LD9s does not mean they have more potential. It means they are more popular, that's all. Would you agree that the 350ci engine has more potential than your turbo GNX engine? Because there are alot more modded 350s out there than your turbo engine.
Rodimus Prime wrote:Other engines can be built to make more power for a lesser cost but not for a J. Honda motors make far more power with less money.
Yes, i know, but 1000hp+
N/A
(low blow time)
You praise 300hp+ ecotecs alot for someone who doesnt have one.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, July 06, 2009 11:09 PM
Tinkles
2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown
Support from GM is at best just the data that they have provided in things such as the build book. Now that the performance division is dissolved you can forget about any more factory performance parts coming out. By OEM support I mean the ability to use the engine with existing hardware. Its always easier to mod the engine you have rather than swap in another one. Or if you don't currently have an eco its much easier to swap one in being that cavs actually came with the engine as opposed to an engine that was never meant for it.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
I think you are prooving his point above. I agree with the statement "the realistic power potential for either is roughly the same". There are only more ecos above 300hp because they are easy, you dont have to "think outside the box". All that you proove by saying "Theres dozens of ecos and more everyday well exceeding that with far less work and cost involved." is that more people choose to mod ecos more because its easier to do. It does not proove the eco is soooo much better at making power just that it has more available parts to make the job less difficult.
Realistically if you take a 2.4 ld9 and a 2.2 eco run the same mods youll get similar power outputs. Put the same turbo, cams, etc they would be very comparable. so its 100lbs lighter...thats what maybe a 10th in the quarter....you can screw up that savings with the wrong set of rims of a stereo system. Take your harrop and put it on an ld9 n itd be making a lot of power too...just have to think out of the box and make a manifold because it isnt spoon fed to us like the eco.
The ecotec is not the god of motors everyone thinks it is...its just the most commercialized.
