Well I finally blew the engine on the cavi and have always said that I would swap it with the the 3800...
So that is exactly what I am doing.
I have a couple questions that I need to figure out an answer for.
1) I have an L67 from a 97 Grand Prix. It has no SC on it (pulled for another car) and no tranny. Is it worth using this car and picking up a SC and tranny or should i just find another car? I got it for free so it didnt cost me anything yet.
2) Lenko you used the 4T65E tranny. I have been debating which route to go. The more I think about it the more torn I am. Which would be the best option? My car is already an automatic but I have always wanted to swap.
3) Gauges / Wiring. I am unsure which wiring option I should be using? Lenko, I would like to be able to keep my gauges and dummy lights ect all working right and I understand the only way to really do this is by swapping all of the donor cars wiring in. Does this mean absolutely everything? Like the engine harness down to the door and trunk switches?
4) ABS. I want to keep my ABS. Do I use the cavi or the donor system?
I am sure I will have many more questions but this should give me a start.
Thanks Guys
Whats up people?
If you plan on drag racing alot, get the auto... Not sure about the rest.
11.92 @ 122.69 MPH Rotrex Blower / Intercooled / Water-Meth / 100% Daily Driver / 381 WHP
Holy christ...
READ!
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=30&i=48579&t=48579
Find the 3800 with the supercharger. To swap the supercharger on you would need the heads as well. So just get the correct engine.
The supercharged tranny is stronger/better. Go for that one. Toss the N/A tranny.
CraigGM:
I have read, and read and read some more. Now what I am trying to do is solicit information from people that have done it already and learn from their mistakes so I can save time. I realize there is no perfect solution but your link did not give me any real insight into which tranny option would be the best just the options that are available. The same with the gauges and wiring what is the best solution not necessarily what is easiest to do. Do I drop in all the wiring from the donor like lenko, go with the donor pcm and build custom gauges, or do the piggy back method. I have seen all 3 and what I would like to know from the people that have done it already if they would have gone a different route if they knew then what they know now.
As for the comment of using a Series II engine maybe I did not make myself clear when I said
Quote:
It has no SC on it (pulled for another car)
. This is a Series II engine, the previous owner pulled the supercharger off of this one to put on his car. All I would have to do find another SC for it on ebay or kijiji.
MarsMan:
I do want to drag but it will be a daily driver as well. I was thinking auto with LSD and a performance shift kit. My GF wants to be able to drive it as well. She can drive stick but not very well.
Whats up people?
the 97 engine you can use the 97 SC has a vacuum tree the 98+ doesn't not a big deal its just if you get a 98 + you would have to change the vacuum lines that go to the FPR and such no biggy at all
as for the wiring and gauges. 98 GTPs didn't have theft neither did 97s but 97s wiring and PCM aren't that great so i have heard i was told to go 98+ on that.
my car i have 98 GTP wiring and PCM and running autometer gauges have been doin so for a year now and runs great however you can if you have an 00+ or if you do hte interior wiring conversion run factory 00+ gauges in your 95-99. you can also piggy back but i hate that method and i charge way more money when i make harness for that method. i'm starting to see more people doin the 00+ swap for wiring to run those gauges
ABS will be used from the cavy theres just a couple wires that come from the PCM for that its no biggy, i'm accually doin a 3400 right now and just finished looking of the schematic and making notes for tomorrow
as for auto if you can get an 4T65HD trans out of a cop car or the bonneville that would be a better choice raven and i are running the F23 trans and lenko has the auto i think he has the HD one his came out of a park ave i think all those had the HD version. if your car is auto and your gf drives auto and will be driving it just swap in the auto if your doin that LENKO is the guy to talk to i have yet to do an auto i have made 5 harness all 5spd
that post is a good starting point but there is info that has changed thats i have yet ot edit on thatso if you read something and its not so clear PM me and see i may have changed it, that post was made to prevent the amount of stupid questions that get asked and really it hasn't helped i still see them maybe it should have went in the performance section insted of 3rd gen. i'm not meaning this post by any means.
JBO since July 30, 2001
I said the same thing when I blew up the 2.4... time for the L67 swap!
If you have the engine, but no blower... then get yourself a Gen 5 blower (which is what I want to swap to, but don't have one yet) and get the extra 40 HP that you gain to start with... yeah!
I went with the 4T65E-HD that came with it, because I wanted an easier swap. I didn't want to mess around with milling the flywheel down, etc, etc.. but then I got into issues with where and how I mounted the drivetrain, and with axles. I guess I lucked out, got the transmission in the dead centre and the axles are the exact same length... though it doesn't make a difference without an LSD anyway... but that's another thread entirely...
When I bought the red 'vert, it was auto... I swapped to a 5 speed within a month of owning it... then put the GM S/C on it... then blew it up... and swapped to the L67 and auto again. I do miss the 5 speed, but it's great when you're sitting in traffic and don't have to think about it. My wife doesn't drive stick, so she can drive the car again (take that however you like it...). She loves showing off in it
and blowing away riced-out Hondas... with a few of her friends - nothing better than a couple of hot chicks in a 'vert that goes REALLY FAST!!
If I had to do it again.. I'd probably go with the 5 speed. Or try and stuff the 6 speed off a G6 GTP (w/ 3900 that is) on it.. In fact, if the trans blows up before the engine does... that's probably what I'll do. I already have another car for a DD.. so it's not a problem...
Like you, I also wanted everything to work in my car... to me that meant swapping the entire electrical system. So basically my car thinks it's still a Park Ave Ultra, but with the wiring for the convertible top added to it. The wiring harness is completely custom... I hacked off most of the Cavalier body and dash stuff, to run the windows, door locks, trunk, taillights, etc... but the majority of the wiring is from the Park Ave. The fuse block under the hood is from the Park Ave... then there are two on the interior - one under the dash from the Park Ave, and the stock Cavalier one with only 5 circuits in it to replace the rear fuse panel from the Park Ave (which I didn't use, or have room for).
The gauges were a tight fit in the Sunfire dash... but it did work after a lot of cutting. It looks pretty good... and they all work. Well, the fuel gauge isn't terribly accurate, but it does work. I especially like the Driver Information Centre... tells you oil life, average fuel economy (once you program the PCM for the smaller tire size of the Cavalier, that is...). And the english/metric button is cool for when I go across the border..
The ABS doesn't currently work on my car... I'm using the Cavalier ABS module for now, and it stayed on all the time and drained my battery. I disconnected it. I need to swap to the Park Ave master cylinder and ABS module, so it will work. I also don't have working airbags... I tried using the Cavalier SDM, with the Cavalier airbags... but the Cavalier SDM won't sync to the Park Ave BCM. I have to find a Park Ave SDM, try the resistor trick on the side airbags, and try and re-learn with the GM Tech 2 again.
The one thing I can remember being a major pain with the swap was doing the downpipe for the exhaust. My engine is so far forward though, I had to move the coilpacks because the front frame rail was in the way. Now the oil dipstick is hard to get to... I guess most people put their drivetrain back further than I did... so it's even tighter back there... but I managed to fit a 3 inch downpipe on mine and still have room to get in there. Now I need to re-do the cat-back from 2.5 to 3 inches..
All in all, it's a hell of a fun swap... and man, does the car go like stink!! And it's still relatively stock... I have many mods planned, but not enough time or $$$ to finish them all.
...j
if you use the 2000+ jbody interior wiring and an engien harness for a j body and get and engine harness from an 04 impala SS supercharged then your ABS should work everyone deletes ABS i currently have a 3400 harness on my bench thats keeping ABS its and 00 and is getting the impala treatment
JBO since July 30, 2001
Must be the Park Avenue then... just won't work with the Cavalier ABS module.
Half the time my ABS runs independent.
The other half the time it just turns on the warning light after I start rolling a bit.
Jon Mick wrote:
i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum.
Ok thanks for the info guys. This is going to be quite the journey.
John:
How did you mount your engine and tranny? Just measure it up and start welding it in or can i use a stock tranny mount or something to guide me? I will be using the 4T65EHD for a tranny.
I want to keep my ABS and my gauges. My car is a 2000 so I want to find an 04 SC Impala for the wiring harness but nobody around here has one. If anyone out there has one or can tell me where I can find one please let me know!
Whats up people?
the 3400 guys have been doin the impala thing and running ABS. John this is newer info that has come out since your car was done. i didn't have all the info in place when mine was done or it would have gotten 00+ gauges
if you have a 2000 your laughing get an 04 impala supercharged harness and computer and your set engine wont matter since 04 impala still had a series 2 on the GP and buicks got the 3
JBO since July 30, 2001
Being from a Park Ave, it's mounted like the Bonneville is... from below and the sides, no mounts to the front rad support. I got lucky and re-used the side mounts that basically hang the weight from the frame rails. There's two other mounts, one in front (attached to the motor) that I built a spot for on the subframe I welded up... used 4 hockey pucks and a threaded rod to keep it in place.. the other is the rear mount on the transmission, which is mounted to the stock subframe with a custom mount I made... little more than pieces of rubber cut from a tire sidewall and plates of metal. Kinda ghetto, really... but the engine is solid in place and doesn't move a bit when you rev it up.
I'll have to dig up some pics...
Wish I knew about that ABS stuff beforehand... I'll be swapping to the Park Ave ABS module/master cylinder over the winter if I find the time... then my tire pressure sensors should work...
i wish i had that info too john i have a NON abs master but still not on it not sure if i will put ABS back in
the mounting is where you can get creative cause no one has done it the same
JBO since July 30, 2001
So I am going to tear down the engine from the donor car . . . What should I be thinking about to put into this engine? I basically want to clean it up and paint it change the seals check the block and fix it all up close to factory but if there is some cheap quality things i can do as far as performance goes I will include them. I am not shooting for Raven craziness. Just things I can do while its all apart.
Whats up people?
Aside from the obvious axles and mounts and stuff that wouldn't fit... I upgraded the downpipe to a full 3", with a 3" cat (rest of exhaust still remains to be done), and I changed the injector O-rings, as they're the main cause of underhood fires. Oh, and the plugs too. Nothing else, it's all still stock... but it goes like hell.
The best part? I can go so much further... you just can't get this kind of reliability upgrading an inline 4.. without swapping to a big engine.
as far as i am concerned its the best bang for your buck the only problem i have it that i shelled a trans in mine with only 3k put on it kinda sucks but as far as drivability its great even without 3rd gear lol
What did you guys do for axles?
I want to do the aluminum control arms with the nfw combo without shortening them for brakes so since I am keeping the 4T65E in it would I just use the donor's inner CV and the ga's outer CV or what combination am i looking at?
I should have the old motor out of the car soon and would like to get the mounting right so I don't have to get custom axles done. If I can use the existing stuff thats great!
Whats up people?
Ok so I am shopping for the wiring harness from the 2004 impala and i found one. My question is do I need the ICM wiring as well?
With running the 2004 harness what kind of rewiring am i looking at? just changing the pins to mate with the interior harness?
My final setup is going to be:
- 3800 S/C
- 4T65E HD with a LSD
- Original 2000 gauges
Lenko and Nota24 do you guys have any rough schematics that I could use? It would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks guys
Whats up people?
oh i should mention that the engine is a 97
will that make a difference?
Whats up people?
the ICM should be the same pinout through the years if your 97 motor has it make sure its the same.
97 had a 3 wire temp sensor and impalas had a 2 so you have to swap to any 2 wire GM temp sensor 2200s had them can use that if you have it
wiring your gonna have to figure it out if you have questions along the way ask in a PM don't post it here as people take things the wrong way and will attempt it and fawk something up and referance it back
JBO since July 30, 2001
Hey guys I've got a question that I haven't been able to find an answer to yet. Have any of you that have done this swap had trouble getting the vehicle insured? I'm very interested in doing this swap because the bottom end of my z24 just gave out on me, and since the engine has to be pulled to repair it, I figured why not give my car (and myself) a little birthday present. By the way, I live in canada so if any of you know of a good insurance company in canada that doesn't rape anyone with a modified car I'd appreciate the info.
depends where you live in canada.i'm ontario and a regular insurance company wont insure my car so i'm insured with the HIGH RISK DRIVERS but because its a high risk car with low risk driver its not back but you have to get a valid safety and have the car appraised before they insure it i also had to have my ownership changed from 4 cylinder to 6.
called the facility market the insurance brocker asked is the car modified i said yes told her what it was and she called my company i have my other car with and they said NOPE we wont touch that car.
JBO since July 30, 2001
Where as I live in Saskatchewan and with SGI a Chevrolet Cavalier Z24 is always classed the same as long as the VIN doesnt change. Which the VIN for the body doesn't as long as I have receipts for any work or parts I put into my car they will take that into account as well. Its all in where you live.
Whats up people?
