I hear all about people opening up their TB, intake manifold, head, exhaust manifold/ header and so on.

I never hear about people getting smaller TBs or adding material to make the ports smaller.

Yes, I know, smaller means less max hp. It shifts the powerband lower.

But, I know when it comes to TBs and intake runners, you get more low end if you have higher velocity air coming in.
Some people might not care about boosting highway performance and only want up and go boosted at the light.

I also wondered if someone made their intake runners so that it swirled the air into the head? Probably already done and done for a long time, I just don't know all the technical jargon yet. I know the Tornado air is crap because the air stops swirling once it hits the TB.
I figured if the intake runners and intake side of the head were designed to swirl the air in, maybe there would be gains.

Probably wrong on all of this, but since I never heard it discussed, I thought I would ask.


My wife's 2003 Ecotec 2.2 liter Sunfire:
* 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler
* 2 1/4 piping to a 2 1/2 inch resonator
* 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter
* 2 1/2 inch down-pipe
* a match ported 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header
* an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition
* 8 gauge ground wire kit
* Toyz front strut brace
* Vibrant rear strut brace
* and Russell stainless steel brake lines all around.

You also get more TOP END!


"FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DRIVE STOCK"

Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:37 PM


Don't buy from MANTAPART!!
There is no easy ways to get HP, no magic box or gizmo... And if you get more hp, there's no way to make your car still behave and sound like a stock one. More hp usually makes your car louder, more vibrations and harder to drive...but still people hope or think maby there's some magic way to have it all, comfort, stock sound and drive.

I love people that think that a high power band is only good at speed or on the highway.

DUDE thats what gears are for.....think about it. You are just going to end up losing power and your car will be slower.

It seemed feasible that if you want most of your up and go under 80mph and here we have a limiter to 115mph which I never hit anyways, why not make the most power a little down lower. 0-80mph is the most usable for me.

I am guessing that such a transmission modification for an automatic is going to cost a lot.


My wife's 2003 Ecotec 2.2 liter Sunfire:
* 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler
* 2 1/4 piping to a 2 1/2 inch resonator
* 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter
* 2 1/2 inch down-pipe
* a match ported 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header
* an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition
* 8 gauge ground wire kit
* Toyz front strut brace
* Vibrant rear strut brace
* and Russell stainless steel brake lines all around.

dumb idea. have you seen our ports...

The ONLY thing i would even consider would be making an intake manifold and a header for what you need to get out of your car. You need to find the IDEAL set up for what you want. The only way to do that is reasearch. The main thing you want to do is make you engine more efficient. I dont think adding more material to your intake ports will do that. You could have them re-shaped. I would look in to a properly designed intake mani and header. /thread

I understand your concept but it just doesn't work out that way. What you might accomplish is improving your fuel economy.


GMR has got nothing on this

DOHC_tuner wrote:I understand your concept but it just doesn't work out that way. What you might accomplish is improving your fuel economy.

I was just going to say that.

The mods on my car are all focused on increasing high RPM flow, but it turns out my low end still feels about the same, and I still get 35mpg mixed. Unless you get into crazy head porting and wild cams, you're not going to kill the low RPM torque with bolt-ons...

This is good stuff to know, thanks guys...


My wife's 2003 Ecotec 2.2 liter Sunfire:
* 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler
* 2 1/4 piping to a 2 1/2 inch resonator
* 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter
* 2 1/2 inch down-pipe
* a match ported 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header
* an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition
* 8 gauge ground wire kit
* Toyz front strut brace
* Vibrant rear strut brace
* and Russell stainless steel brake lines all around.

the more you reduce flow the porer the engine will run. The smaller the ports the harder the engine has to work to pull in engine. It increases the velocity of air but decreases the volume. Velocity stacks work because you've got 1 intake per cylinder.

Swirling the air is also pointless, because once it get into the intake manifold, all work is for not. Swirling it also causes restriction.

The less an engine has to work the more power it makes and the more efficiently it runs.


-Chris

Mike85220 wrote:It seemed feasible that if you want most of your up and go under 80mph and here we have a limiter to 115mph which I never hit anyways, why not make the most power a little down lower. 0-80mph is the most usable for me.

I am guessing that such a transmission modification for an automatic is going to cost a lot.

so whats it like revving your engine in MPH because all my engines rev in RPM

Quote:

so whats it like revving your engine in MPH because all my engines rev in RPM

LMFAO!!! WOW.... PJ you are priceless....


...I am the BEST at what I do...
"I guess your right[BlueBoost]. Me and my slow car are failers."

BlueBoost (Itsjustacavalier) wrote:

Quote:

so whats it like revving your engine in MPH because all my engines rev in RPM

LMFAO!!! WOW.... PJ you are priceless....

And this..


It seemed feasible that if you want most of your up and go under 80mph and here we have a limiter to 115mph which I never hit anyways, why not make the most power a little down lower. 0-80mph is the most usable for me.





]:-> 287 TimeSlips In Hand. Car Still Runs Strong... 3 Differentials Later ]:->

Quote:

and here we have a limiter to 115mph which I never hit anyways, why not make the most power a little down lower. 0-80mph is the most usable for me.

Quote:

so whats it like revving your engine in MPH because all my engines rev in RPM

Unreal...

You did not even read.

I never once said rev.
My car cannot go over 115MPH, yes MPH... MILES PER HOUR

I never said anything about the rev limiter....


My wife's 2003 Ecotec 2.2 liter Sunfire:
* 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler
* 2 1/4 piping to a 2 1/2 inch resonator
* 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter
* 2 1/2 inch down-pipe
* a match ported 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header
* an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition
* 8 gauge ground wire kit
* Toyz front strut brace
* Vibrant rear strut brace
* and Russell stainless steel brake lines all around.

Quote:

It seemed feasible that if you want most of your up and go under 80mph and here we have a limiter to 115mph which I never hit anyways, why not make the most power a little down lower. 0-80mph is the most usable for me.

And this?

Wake up, you own a grocery getter, and the max speed limit in the US is 75mph, yes MPH.
Daaar!



My wife's 2003 Ecotec 2.2 liter Sunfire:
* 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler
* 2 1/4 piping to a 2 1/2 inch resonator
* 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter
* 2 1/2 inch down-pipe
* a match ported 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header
* an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition
* 8 gauge ground wire kit
* Toyz front strut brace
* Vibrant rear strut brace
* and Russell stainless steel brake lines all around.

Mike, moving your powerband lower is not going to speed up your 0-80. It might speed up your 0-20.

Think about it, from 0-80 you use your low end exactly ONCE and your high end THREE TIMES.


2002 Cavalier 2200 5spd

Sorry guys I don't know about you but when I hit 7 grand at 93mph I shift back into 2nd so I get my power band back!!!!!


___________________________________________________________________

Hahn Stage II - Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |

Mike85220 wrote:

Quote:

so whats it like revving your engine in MPH because all my engines rev in RPM

Unreal...

You did not even read.

I never once said rev.
My car cannot go over 115MPH, yes MPH... MILES PER HOUR

I never said anything about the rev limiter....

yea, I know you didn't say rev.. thats why you're an idiot.

Quote:

It seemed feasible that if you want most of your up and go under 80mph and here we have a limiter to 115mph which I never hit anyways, why not make the most power a little down lower. 0-80mph is the most usable for me.

gotta shift at least twice to get to 80mph, right? where does the tachometer on your engine go?
smaller longer ports moving the power band LOWER refers to the RPM not the MPH of the car.

moving your powerband refers to the RPM of the engine, not the speed of the car you moron.

and hey look, I didn't even need capitals or giant letters.


furthermore, low rpm power is useless.. but since you lack an understanding of what that means I'll save the explanation for the next stupid thread you start.

Yo ! Can't we all just chill ? , Peace Brothas we all in the Ecotec Family





___________________________________________________________________

Hahn Stage II - Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |

also just to completely bury this thread..

reducing port size may shift the powerband lower in the RPM range to an extent, but without altering the entire runner dimension the difference will be negligible, and also even if you did do this, your powerband would be shifted lower, but instead of for example peak torque being 120lbs-ft at 3800rpm it would be 100lbs-ft at 3000rpm.. power shifted lower yes, but overall power is still LESS than what you started with.

advantages for doing this = none.

DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:also just to completely bury this thread..

reducing port size may shift the powerband lower in the RPM range to an extent, but without altering the entire runner dimension the difference will be negligible, and also even if you did do this, your powerband would be shifted lower, but instead of for example peak torque being 120lbs-ft at 3800rpm it would be 100lbs-ft at 3000rpm.. power shifted lower yes, but overall power is still LESS than what you started with.

advantages for doing this = none.

You mean like adding a larger TB adds 15 HP decreasing it doesn't add 15 ft lb torque? CMON PJ it's common .org sense! Obviously he would be adding 1 7/8" diameter CAI to complete this setup.


___________________________________________________________________

Hahn Stage II - Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |

BlackEco wrote:

DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:also just to completely bury this thread..

reducing port size may shift the powerband lower in the RPM range to an extent, but without altering the entire runner dimension the difference will be negligible, and also even if you did do this, your powerband would be shifted lower, but instead of for example peak torque being 120lbs-ft at 3800rpm it would be 100lbs-ft at 3000rpm.. power shifted lower yes, but overall power is still LESS than what you started with.

advantages for doing this = none.

You mean like adding a larger TB adds 15 HP decreasing it doesn't add 15 ft lb torque? CMON PJ it's common .org sense! Obviously he would be adding 1 7/8" diameter CAI to complete this setup.

lol

Oh it gets better...

Quote:

* 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler
* 2 1/4 piping to a 2 1/2 inch resonator
* 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter
* 2 1/2 inch down-pipe

So you've installed a larger than stock exhaust system, but you want to reduce the diameter of your intake system? What's the point of decreasing your exhaust velocity and increasing your intake velocity? You want more low end? Put your stock exhaust back on.


2002 Cavalier 2200 5spd

Solid Snake wrote:Oh it gets better...

Quote:

* 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler
* 2 1/4 piping to a 2 1/2 inch resonator
* 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter
* 2 1/2 inch down-pipe

So you've installed a larger than stock exhaust system, but you want to reduce the diameter of your intake system? What's the point of decreasing your exhaust velocity and increasing your intake velocity? You want more low end? Put your stock exhaust back on.

Duoh to reduce backpressure !!!!!


___________________________________________________________________

Hahn Stage II - Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |