Hey guys, Iīd like to hear some opinions regarding my Sunfireīs air intake.. First this is the way it looks now:
Basically I just removed the OEM air filter and its box and placed a high flow air filter instead but I have some doubts on the effectiveness of this mod:
1. Is the OEM air intake pipe as good heat insulator as the pipes that come with CAI kits?? I understand that CAI pipes are made of aluminium and therefore I tend to think they might get hotter than rubber pipes...
2. Iīve seen some CAI systems in which a kind of barrier is placed around the air filter to insulate the heat coming from the engine.. Does this make a big difference in performance compared to having the air filter open as I have mine??
3. Maybe this is another silly question but I can notice a big difference on the performance of my car depending on whether Iīm driving during a hot day or a cool afternoon which is logical since the cooler is outside, the more density in the air and therefore a better combustion.. My problem is that I leave in Central America and as you can imagine itīs freaking hot here and I was thinking that having a metal hood like the ones we have in our Sunfires and Cavaliers might get a lot hotter in here than in the US and therefore temperature under the hood is pretty high so I was thinking if changing the metal hood for a fiber glass hood might make a big difference in perfomance assuming Iīll get a cooler temperature under the hood and also Iīll probably lose some pounds...
The picture was missing in the first post... There you go:
get rid of the intake resonator and get a nice aluminum ebay intake. their inexpensive and they work.
Pipe+filter=done.
Our cars do not really respond well to light mods like this.
It will make it a bit louder tho..
brodycog wrote:get rid of the intake resonator and get a nice aluminum ebay intake. their inexpensive and they work.
But what for? Reducing air temperature? Or just to make it look better?
Mike wrote:Pipe+filter=done.
Our cars do not really respond well to light mods like this.
It will make it a bit louder tho..
Yes, I donīt think this mod represents a noticeable difference by itself anyway but it should help to get better results together with other mods like headers and stuff..
But what about changing the hood for a fiberglass one? Would it reduce heat under the hood significantly?
Rich Grayo Jr. wrote:inside of an aluminum pipe is smooth. inside of the rubber hose is ribbed. smooth pipe=better flow.
mmm and how so??? and if smoother, hotter??? metals get hotter than rubber donīt they???
The smoother the pipe means the air moves threw it easier which allows the car to breath easier which will give you a HP gain. If you are that worried about heat then just wrap it with header wrap.
Tinkles
2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown
or just keep it stock if you don't want to. just don't expect any gains from that con filter on the end of a stock intake.
87 Firebird
All stock...........lol.
randizzle wrote:or just keep it stock if you don't want to. just don't expect any gains from that con filter on the end of a stock intake.
A high flow filter lets more air to come into the intake... A rubber pipe insulates better the heat from the engine than a metal pipe and colder air means a better combustion since thereīs more density in the air... If you try to compare aluminium VS rubber intake on a dyno it will still depend on the temperature of the place you are, the shape and mods of your car and some other factors.. I think the problem with this topic is that it is kind of tight to what each one believes and not in facts.. It is expected that somebody who has expended 200 bucks or more on a AEM Short Air Intake would swear that thatīs the way to go but Iīm expecting a deeper explanation on this.. Donīt get me wrong, Iīm open to suggestions but if you tell me that this is better than that I expect a pretty more solid based explanation..
The stock resontator/box thing on your intake is pretty restrictive and the stock s tube has those ribs. I dont think temps will play that much of a role in the intake tube before the throttle body. i was watching the IAT on HPtuners once the air starts flowing it cools the thin aluminum tube quite well. I cant remeber the exact temps but from just sitting there to a second later driving the temp difference was massive, Im talking 80 or so degrees once the air was flowing.
Zs Z wrote:The stock resontator/box thing on your intake is pretty restrictive and the stock s tube has those ribs. I dont think temps will play that much of a role in the intake tube before the throttle body. i was watching the IAT on HPtuners once the air starts flowing it cools the thin aluminum tube quite well. I cant remeber the exact temps but from just sitting there to a second later driving the temp difference was massive, Im talking 80 or so degrees once the air was flowing.
I honestly havenīt checked if the stock tube has the ribs inside as well but that might be a point to say it is more restrictive than an aluminium tube.. Iīll take a look on that.. but now I have a mess of concepts in my head hehe.. What do you refer to the resonator/box thing?
On my vert I have a low profile 90degree coupler on the throttle body going to a 4 dollar piece of straight aluminum intake tube going to the stock S tube and a dropin K&N filter. I am going to replace the S tube eventually. Im not going to use a cone filter in this car, Its more of a sleeper and I dont want to hear the noise. Im going to use some pvc pipe and make a air duct coming from behind the bumper to an enlarged hole in the bottom of the airbox.
Zs Z wrote:On my vert I have a low profile 90degree coupler on the throttle body going to a 4 dollar piece of straight aluminum intake tube going to the stock S tube and a dropin K&N filter. I am going to replace the S tube eventually. Im not going to use a cone filter in this car, Its more of a sleeper and I dont want to hear the noise. Im going to use some pvc pipe and make a air duct coming from behind the bumper to an enlarged hole in the bottom of the airbox.
I was looking at your 2001 Z24 high flow intake manifold.. Thatīs nice.. Where did you get that manifold from and how much did you pay for it?
That manifold is actually a manfold from the HO 2.3 quad 4. They can be found at a pick n pull junk yard for about 40 bucks or they float around in the classifieds here sometimes and occsionally on ebay, although they are usually a bit more when not in the junk yard. There are a few writeups on these forums about it. But unless you have some head work or cams the HO dosnt really help a stock 2.4. They have found the 2.3 LO actually helps the 2.4 on mild builds. The only drawback is to use this manifold you either need to port match or make an adaptor flange since the ports dont line up quite so well on their own. Also a couple of the intakes bolt holes need to be slotted since they dont all line up exactly. All in all Im quite happy with the manifold.
Im glad that you are thinking outside the box. As mentioned the stock intake system does not flow as well as a smooth pipe due to its poor design. Obviously it was not made for performance.
When you begin to add modifications to an engine you will also begin to learn that you will have to compensate or sacrifice something (ex. low end power for high band power). Heat is a factor on all engines so I suggest installing a direct switch to your cooling fans to help cool the intake at the flip of a switch.
GMR has got nothing on this
Also when building an engine for perfomance if your worried about temps you want everything to be black, shiney crome like stuff holds heat more than the black.
If you buy 2 $30 short ram intakes from ebay you can make yourself a CAI, no need to spend $200 on an AEM.
You keep saying your open minded, but everyone keeps telling you the ribbed stock intake is too restrictive, and you don't believe them.
Yes metal will heat soak quicker, but the gains from the higher flow outweigh the losses from heat. Anyone with an aluminum intake can tell you that the intake is for the most part, cold to the touch, at least on the LD9 and Eco, where all the exhaust heat is behind the engine, away from the intake.
Our opinions are based on other peoples tests. The fact is that an aluminum intake will give you more power than the oem setup. Your "high flow" cone filter pretty much did nothing. Buy a cheap intake from ebay and but a K&N filter on it.
If your really that worried about heat, than have one made out of steel, it doesn't transfer heat as quickly as aluminum.
Or you could just make a real CAI out of 2 cheap ebay intakes like I said above and actually get cooler air temps.
I really need to get some updated pics of my engine bay...
Paying someone to install parts and bragging about it being fast, is like watching someone bang your wife and being proud to raise their kids.
with my cia while watching temps with hpt. the intake temps are only a few degrees warmer then outside at drving speeds. Aluminum does soak heat faster but it also cools very fast.
DOHC_tuner wrote:Im glad that you are thinking outside the box. As mentioned the stock intake system does not flow as well as a smooth pipe due to its poor design. Obviously it was not made for performance.
When you begin to add modifications to an engine you will also begin to learn that you will have to compensate or sacrifice something (ex. low end power for high band power). Heat is a factor on all engines so I suggest installing a direct switch to your cooling fans to help cool the intake at the flip of a switch.
I like the switch idea.. that would be very useful for sure!
Transporter7220 wrote:If you buy 2 $30 short ram intakes from ebay you can make yourself a CAI, no need to spend $200 on an AEM.
You keep saying your open minded, but everyone keeps telling you the ribbed stock intake is too restrictive, and you don't believe them.
I wasnīt contemplating the ribs, I was actually thinking about the rubber pipe as an equivalent intake in terms of diameter and length but made of a different material.. and the material was my point of discussion, but I wanted a based explanation not just a "You wonīt get any gain by just a filter", do you know what I mean? If you tell me "If you put this in your car you're gonna get x hp" I'd like to understand why before I make a change to my car and before I waste or invest the money.. Iīm totally willing to do changes but once Iīve gotten a based explanation.
Transporter7220 wrote:
Yes metal will heat soak quicker, but the gains from the higher flow outweigh the losses from heat. Anyone with an aluminum intake can tell you that the intake is for the most part, cold to the touch, at least on the LD9 and Eco, where all the exhaust heat is behind the engine, away from the intake.
Our opinions are based on other peoples tests. The fact is that an aluminum intake will give you more power than the oem setup. Your "high flow" cone filter pretty much did nothing. Buy a cheap intake from ebay and but a K&N filter on it.
If your really that worried about heat, than have one made out of steel, it doesn't transfer heat as quickly as aluminum.
Or you could just make a real CAI out of 2 cheap ebay intakes like I said above and actually get cooler air temps.
The high flow filter basically was supposed to let the intake almost "open" to the environment and just preventing dust to come in instead of having the filter in a closed environment like the OEM box (Which is the part of the OEM intake I thought was the most restrictive), so if I got 0 hp by just the filter how much am I supposed to get with the aluminum intake then??? I do believe there's not much gain with just the filter, I'd be lying if I tell you that I felt a real change in my car since I put it in but now I'm wondering if you really got to notice something by just changing the pipe for an aluminum one?
I repeat, don't get me wrong, I didn't start the thread to start a fight.. I started the thread to learn something not just to believe inmediatly what I'm told so sorry if I'm being too stubborn
The truth of the matter is that aluminum pipe or not you wont notice a gain on a stock engine. You may however see an increase in mpg. An intake really helps out once you start adding cams and porting your head and such. I guess a better way to say it is you will gain horsepower from an intake but it wont be feelable horse power its so little.....its more of a supporting mod for future mods.
brodycog wrote:with my cia while watching temps with hpt. the intake temps are only a few degrees warmer then outside at drving speeds. Aluminum does soak heat faster but it also cools very fast.
yeap and that's my biggest concern.. As I mentioned in the very first post I can notice a difference when driving during a cool fresh afternoon and driving at the heat of noon.. maybe what many of you guys don't realize is that it's pretty hot down here..
Zs Z wrote:The truth of the matter is that aluminum pipe or not you wont notice a gain on a stock engine. You may however see an increase in mpg. An intake really helps out once you start adding cams and porting your head and such. I guess a better way to say it is you will gain horsepower from an intake but it wont be feelable horse power its so little.....its more of a supporting mod for future mods.
Right and you just touched an excellent point! I'm not actually building a racing machine.. I'm just adding some bolt-ons to my daily driving car, for example, I also installed a ceramic header, I bought a B&M shiftplus kit and I'm thinking on some other possible mods that all together might give me a funnier and sportier ride every day.. So thereīs the point of the thread: taking what I just said into account, is it worthy to change the pipe I have or not?
Tinkles wrote:The smoother the pipe means the air moves threw it easier which allows the car to breath easier which will give you a HP gain. If you are that worried about heat then just wrap it with header wrap.
do this ^^^^^^ Its an inexpensive way to get better flow and keep intake temps lower. Other wise adding a header without opening up your intake probably only adds a little more fun. An intake bigger tb to go along with your header will give you even more fun. then add a full exhaust upgrade in as well to get rid of the bottle neck after the header
Probably not as far as the S pipe goes. but ditching the resonator box would be worth it for mpg and supporting your other bolt ons. If you are happy with your setup though then thats all that matters.
If you decided to change up your setup this would be just as good as an aem intake....
Intake
