Hi. I have a question concerning the 2200 block. I'm just wondering how much the block can handle. I own a 2000 Cavalier with a 2200 and I've found alot of parts I can put on it, but I don't know if the block would be able to handle that much.
Bernie Friesen wrote:Hi. I have a question concerning the 2200 block. I'm just wondering how much the block can handle. I own a 2000 Cavalier with a 2200 and I've found alot of parts I can put on it, but I don't know if the block would be able to handle that much.
What exactly are you trying to do? I`ll say this: the rods are the weak link to this block. IMO the crank is fine, and the block is fine but the pistons and rods are where you will run into problems. And dont forget to change the cheap head gasket
I'm looking at completly rebuilding the engine. Crank, cam, pistons, rods, and valves. Maybe doing some head work on it as well
People here sure do like to underestimate the rods. They are VERY heavy duty considering what this engine was built for...
To the OP: What are your goals? There's a good chance you'll never need to open up the engine...
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
I would like to get about 300 - 400 HP out of it
Bernie Friesen wrote:I would like to get about 300 - 400 HP out of it
Why do you feel you want that much? How do you plan to get that power to the ground? Have you ever driven a 300hp+ car?
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
Not a car. I used to own a '97 Silverado with about 250 HP. It was alot of fun. As for getting the power to the ground, I'm not exactly sure how to go about that. But I was thinking that's where my mechanic friends would be able to help me out, since I have a few of those.
Im not even going to touch the silverado comment...
Mechanics, for the most part, are not going to be able to help you with getting the car scooting down the track and putting that kind of power to the ground. The biggest part of the power to the ground equation is the driver. After that, its setup on the car, and let me tell you, unless any one of your mechanic friends have gotten a cavalier down the 1/4mi in 12 seconds or less they will be able to give you general guidelines at the MOST...and thats IF they understand the aftermarket. Which unfortunatly, most mechanics worth their salt, dont piddle with. Its just the nature of the auto industry today.
Add to that the fact most racers dont drive FWD and you narrow your possibility even more.
I suggest you start reading and do lots of reading, and dont plan on this being cheap.
Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards
turbo, n2o, and a severe engine build.
and lots of good luck.
I wasn't planning on going cheap on this project. I"m not a big fan of n2o, and I was thinking about supercharger instead of turbo. I think after I get my tranny back from getting fixed and upgraded I shouldn't have much problem getting the power to the ground.
Alex Richards wrote:
The biggest part of the power to the ground equation is the driver. After that, its setup on the car...
Agreed. This will take a dedicated bank account. As I've learned with other project, building the engine itself is the easy(er) part. The tough part is realizing you need a better tranny, a 1,000 dollar clutch minimum, great motor/tranny mounts, much better fuel delivery and top of the line suspension upgrades like coil-overs and upgraded sway bars for example. And the tuning, man the tuning.... Also, think about safety; roll-bars etc. This is not an exhausted list. All this stuff needs to be almost top of line and thus never cheap. If you have the money AND TIME to dedicate to such a project, by all means have a blast. As long as you've taken into account all the modifications that will be required all over the car, get to it. Alex gave you great advice, RESEARCH. There's a lot of info on this site to guide you in the right direction for parts/prices and how to. Maybe even search here and google for problems people ran into as well so you don't fall victim to the same $h!t. Knowledge is power. And of course, pictures of the progress are always encouraged
"In Oldskool we trust"
I've already sent my tranny away to get upgraded. And I'm getting a lightened flywheel and at least a stage 2 or 3 clutch.
ur tranny is'nt going to get u to 300 hp, and neither is ur engine on a supercharger build, unless u dump quite a bit into it. u may not like n2o but it's worth some researching. for the money it's quite a bit of power, just take the proper precautions that's all. n2o can b as safe as boost as long as u take the proper precautions.
So exactly how much can I get out of a supercharger build? Because from what I hear, I can get just as much if not more than with a turbo.
Rich Grayo Jr. wrote:to my knowledge, there is no supercharger/manifold setup currently available that will work on the ohv.
that's what i was going to say. how in the world do you plan on making 300-400 hp with a supercharger? which supercharger did you have in mind?
87 Firebird
All stock...........lol.
blucavvy wrote:ur tranny is'nt going to get u to 300 hp, and neither is ur engine on a supercharger build, unless u dump quite a bit into it. u may not like n2o but it's worth some researching. for the money it's quite a bit of power, just take the proper precautions that's all. n2o can b as safe as boost as long as u take the proper precautions.
Being a turbo guy Im always going to be toward the negative on the N2o...but...consider this.
Typically when building a motor that will be consistantly reliable on N2o (and even then we are talking a motor that comes apart AT LEAST every race season) your talking much larger connecting rod bearings in both width and thickness, as well as ring lands that are as thick as possible. Both things that are not possible without many custom made parts including the crank on the 2200. The low deck height of the 2200 and dished piston design also means even with forged pistons the ring land to piston surface cross section is relatively narrow creating a thin spot prone to failure...When your talking a 200 shot to get there or even 100 shot and boost to get to your goal the pistons are going to fail eventually.
The real fundamental reason I do not like nitrous is the way it makes power. Think of how Bill Hahn uses it in the Sunfire. He uses it in 2nd and 3rd gear to essentially build much more heat in the turbine section and keep the turbo spooled after shifts. Its a small shot but its very effective in its delivery and use. The main point here is that Oxygen by itself is VERY unstable causing damn near anything to easily combust (As we know combustion is simply a process of oxidation). Consider this...
100hp engine...on 1 atmosphere...which is about 18% oxygen (check me on this...just theory anyway)
if we double the content of oxygen we very well could double the output of the engine...a mere 36% concentration.
The rest of course is mostly nitrogen.
Now lets look at N2o...
The ratio is 2 to 1. So it is nearly 33% oxygen. Now we know why it makes so much power...The bigger ratio of nitrous to air the more power we make. But essentially we are SEVERELY increasing the ratio of oxygen to nitrogen in the cylinder. The problem with this is that nitrogen is a stabilizer. IF we take nitrogen away we make alot more power, however the AF mixture is more likely to detonate and preignite. Alot more likely in fact. Tuning can help with this but eventually we start using fuel for cooling cylinders instead of making power, and we are always popping off the mixture and burning it too quickly before the piston gets to the bottom of the cylinder.
When you supercharge a motor, whether turbo or belt driven supercharger we are increasing the density of the air coming in but not changing the chemistry of it, keeping it very stable and making it significantly "Nicer" to those parts directly in the line of fire, such as pistons, connecting rods, and connecting rod bearings. Not to mention the fact we are more able to utilize the entire stroke of the piston.
Plus you dont have to refill a turbo.... :-)
Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards
if you built a manifodl to hold a supercharger you would be capped at a relatively low amount of boost, unless you used a cent. supercharger and then you woul still need ot intercool it to make any power and not just hot air. turbo will by far make a ton more power. now back to your origional questionleave the block and crank alone... buy some eagle rods and a nice set of low comp pistons. for turbo you can do minro work on teh head as the air is forced in there anyway unline n/a
Bernie Friesen wrote:I wasn't planning on going cheap on this project.
if you have the money to waste why start with an underpowered economy car?
sell the j, buy something thats already fast/boosted. youll be able to do much fewer upgrades to achieve what youre looking for; which isnt very realistic. sure theres guys here that have done it, but its only a handful
also, with the comment about your mechanic friends being able to help... im going to assume you know little to nothing about cars if youre going to rely on other people to do it so i would suggest you search this place end to end and read up on as much crap about your car as you can. also, go to a junkyard wit ha good set of tools and tear a 2200 apart, then put it back together. guaranteed youll learn a few things, plus it will only cost you the entry fee (2 bucks?)
Eat my shift
Here's a thought: Miss the Silvy & wanna make 300hp from a LN2? Go find a '98-later 4-cyl S-truck, then visit Turbo S-10.com (This isn't a functioning link! Sorry...). They'll help you in ways J-car turbo kit makers can only dream of. Like say... 650hp!?
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Nickelin Dimer wrote: Here's a thought: Miss the Silvy & wanna make 300hp from a LN2? Go find a '98-later 4-cyl S-truck, then visit Turbo S-10.com (This isn't a functioning link! Sorry...). They'll help you in ways J-car turbo kit makers can only dream of. Like say... 650hp!?
Proof please... And I mean harcore proof, not this crap from their site....
Quote:
June 8, 2009:
Over the weekend we conducted extensive testing and tuning that landed us with 15psi and about 375hp to the wheels based on data logging information.
This I find hillarious.. "Based on datalogging information"...
Are you freaking serious?!?!? I also agree with OHV Notec about the rods comment. They have been proven to handle 300whp with no indications of any failure coming. The weakest link in the LN2 is the pistons. Combined with tight ring gaps, and too much cylinder pressure, broken ringlands will follow. (**Please keep in mind the tune MUST be perfect**)
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
QWK LN2 (aka ImPhat0260) wrote:Nickelin Dimer wrote: Here's a thought: Miss the Silvy & wanna make 300hp from a LN2? Go find a '98-later 4-cyl S-truck, then visit Turbo S-10.com (This isn't a functioning link! Sorry...). They'll help you in ways J-car turbo kit makers can only dream of. Like say... 650hp!?
Proof please... And I mean harcore proof, not this crap from their site....
Quote:
June 8, 2009:
Over the weekend we conducted extensive testing and tuning that landed us with 15psi and about 375hp to the wheels based on data logging information.
This I find hillarious.. "Based on datalogging information"... Are you freaking serious?!?!? I also agree with OHV Notec about the rods comment. They have been proven to handle 300whp with no indications of any failure coming. The weakest link in the LN2 is the pistons. Combined with tight ring gaps, and too much cylinder pressure, broken ringlands will follow. (**Please keep in mind the tune MUST be perfect**)
Okay, I misquoted... But given what you've done so far, it doesn't seem
totally impossible... if done right... does it? Besides, they seem to be one of the few (if not
only) serious marketed LN2 builders out there... So maybe we should give them a chance.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
