So since I nuked the trans in my turbo sedan, I've planned to park the car for quite a while and build it. This will be my first engine build, and tear down.
I plan to keep the Td04 turbo on it, but get it rebuilt and possibly upgraded. I'd like to run 10-12psi daily.
I pretty much need all the help I can get with this build, I need a guideline laid out for it.
Should I keep the stock compression, or go for a lower one?
I plan to go with forged rods and wiseco pistons. Would I need to invest in a hardened oil pump gear, and how is that installed? I also plan to do the balance shaft delete, and replace the timing gear while in there being they fail.
Will I need new bearings? Headgasket?
I also plan to do a LSD while in the trans. Insert or full LSD? Cost really matters, being I see the real LSD is stupid expensive.
I want the car to be reliable and able to run low 13's if not high 12's.
If anyone would help me through this that would be great. Just like a parts list. I've read through the FAQ and sticky, but need more help with what I need and need to plan to spend.
Thanks a ton!
Forged Pistons, Rods, Oil pump gear, balance shaft delete, new timing, take the block and crank to a shop and let them tell you what you need(ie bearings and pistons), and finally a head gasket.
Get an obx diff. $320 shipped on ebay! Then have a trans shop install it.
Should I let the machine shop do the piston/crank install? I don't think I'd be capable of it honestly.
I think I could do the balance shaft delete, but after reading....is it really necessary? And if I were to do a turbo cam grind, would I HAVE to do valves and springs?
I think it should be fine on fuel, ran fine on 10psi before.
SLOCAV wrote:Should I let the machine shop do the piston/crank install? I don't think I'd be capable of it honestly.
I think I could do the balance shaft delete, but after reading....is it really necessary? And if I were to do a turbo cam grind, would I HAVE to do valves and springs?
I think it should be fine on fuel, ran fine on 10psi before.
honestly putting a motor together is not that hard....i will say have the machine shop check it all out and balance what is needed....i put my motor together ( with a little guidance ) and lots of torque specs sheets for everything
i say
forged pistons and rods
stock crank
aftermarket head gasket
oil pump gears
balance shaft delete
pnp head with upgraded valvetrain and cams ( if you have the money)
build and enjoy
i would go team green LSD myself
RIP JESSE GERARD.....Youll always be in my thoughts and prayers...
Is the PnP head w/ cams REALLY noticeable? I'd love the sound and power band of a cammed motor, but i'm not sure if it is going to happen because of cost. This car is being made for streets/strip.
SLOCAV wrote:Is the PnP head w/ cams REALLY noticeable? I'd love the sound and power band of a cammed motor, but i'm not sure if it is going to happen because of cost. This car is being made for streets/strip.
yea its def noticeable on mine
i got the GM race eco head
comp cams turbo cams
ferria valves
GM Racing Dual Valve Spring Kit With Ti Retainers
Spring Seats & Valve Stem Seals
stock cam gears
with just a exhaust and intake now..... ( gonna be turbo'd soon ) and i notice it has a heck of a lot more pep and hearing a cam'd car is awesome.......but def need to tune it to get the full benefits
RIP JESSE GERARD.....Youll always be in my thoughts and prayers...
Might be added to the plans then. This build is going to happen over the next few years, so as long as money is steady this will be done.
I'll be building the trans too, being it is already dead ;(
Sorry to post again, but what part of the timing chain system fails on the ecotec? Like what part would I want to replace while I have the head off. I might do this all without removing the motor...
I need to keep this topic going, as I need more informations being a noobie engine builder.
VERY stupid question, but does the motor need to be bore/honed to install a new set of pistons/rods? A friend keeps telling me to pull the entire motor to get it bored out or it will burn oil...
I'd agree with your friend. Do it right or risk great disappointment.
Here's the engine formula we used to build 405 WHP on our off-the-shelf J-body Ecotec S20G TurboSystem w/PortFueler-equipped StreetRace intake manifold:
JE pistons
Eagle rods
ARP head studs
Crane valvesprings/retainers
Car ran mid/low 11's @ 125 MPH, was 100% streetable, and stayed together for years.
If you'd like to learn more, let me know. Good luck!
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Was there anything else done to that car? Or would that be a great idea along with a new clutch and LSD? I'm running the Td04, hopefully around 12psi when the build is done.
Other items included an upgraded clutch and exhaust system. Some form of LSD is recommended, but not 100% required at your power level. Team Green is a good way to go if you decide to go into the trans.
But, no head porting, stock cams and valves. On a boosted application, you really need to be going for the throat to see gains to equal the money spent in that department. Even our 750 HP Sunfire uses a stock head casting and valves, just port matched to the turbo header. Ecotec heads rock it in stock form for boosted applications.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
I am probably going to go with your build then. It seems like the cheapest and most effective option right now, and I can always upgrade the turbo down the road with this build.
Thanks for the help
for the td04 you really dont need alot like mentioned above.. if it were me id just do rods, pistons, aftermarket head gasket, and oil pump gears...
Agreed, but the stock head gasket has proven quite effective in our builds, and it's a shame to not swap in good valvesprings and head studs while it's all apart. The stock valvesprings begin to float at about 12 PSI, and the stock head bolts are not re-usable, amking it a great chance to upgrade to studs.
We typically won't replace the oil pump gears on anything but high-powered builds.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
I'd like to do what needs to be done while I have the motor out and apart. Say I upgrade my turbo setup in a few years, the motor will be able to handle it. I don't know of a lot of people running the oil gears, but have been told they are needed. I have no clue about installation or placement of them anyway.
Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:Agreed, but the stock head gasket has proven quite effective in our builds, and it's a shame to not swap in good valvesprings and head studs while it's all apart. The stock valvesprings begin to float at about 12 PSI, and the stock head bolts are not re-usable, amking it a great chance to upgrade to studs.
We typically won't replace the oil pump gears on anything but high-powered builds.
i agree bill they must have slipped my mind.. i say get headstuds with any boosted J
The oil pump gears normally only fail from HIGH RPM use, and/or a two step. If you do not plan on being over 300whp I wouldn't get them. If you revving higher than stock then I think they are a must.
In my opinion.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Does there happen to be a How To, that I'm not aware of for the oil pump gear? Is it fairly simple to do, or what is required?
I'd say just inspect the stock pump and if it's good, go with it.
Have a professional assemble the engine for you if it's your first rodeo. It's money well spent to protect your investment.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
i think its somewhat simple. after the timing chain cover is off, don't you just take off the bolts on the inside of the cover, and there are the gears?
Great suggestions above.
If you are not comfortable doing the assmbly yourself then deff worth the investment to have a shop do it.. however, it's really not that complicated and is very rewarding feeling once completed... helps to have another person around that is knowledgeable in case you need another hand or a lil pep talk
I always have a haynes manual at a minimum with me while doing a build for reference, specifically for torque specs. When I built my LSJ I printed of the GM "to 300" LSJ Build Guide as well, due to there being lots to refrence to if needed. I also label & baggy any & every bolt I pull out, so I know 110%, that Im not missing a single bolt on re-install and find this, altho time consuming, worth the extra effort.
Miss Jazer wrote: I also label & baggy any & every bolt I pull out, so I know 110%, that Im not missing a single bolt on re-install and find this, altho time consuming, worth the extra effort.
yea i did this when i did my motor swap and helped a ton on reassemble
RIP JESSE GERARD.....Youll always be in my thoughts and prayers...
Dave De Stefano wrote:i think its somewhat simple. after the timing chain cover is off, don't you just take off the bolts on the inside of the cover, and there are the gears?
That's it, yes. The pump is housed in that cover, driven by the flats on the crank pulley/damper.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
I plan to do this build myself, helps me learn and makes me feel better about the car. I plan to reference back to the build book I have and to here. Is there any specific tool I need for that gear to pull off? Or do I need to worry about timing after replacing the chains ( I plan to because it is an early year ecotec).
