I had a machine shop rebuild my motor. I had them in stall stamped 1.6 small block rockers. They had to re-tap the studs and install the new ones for the 1.6 rockers. They also ground out the guide plates and opened the head a little where the push rod comes through.
I installed the assembled long block and have a loud valve train noise that doesn't go away. It almost sounds like a diesel running? Now one of the rockers actually slid off the top of the valve.
So I'm looking for any help from anyone who has done this and may know something that was missed before i call the machine shop on Monday.
Also FYI we used the factory push rods, rebuilt the factory lifters with heaver springs, used the bee hive vale springs and factory cam.
What year is your motor? Did you buy self-aligning roller rocker arms?
the head is from a 1995. In the picture I posted you can see that they are NOT roller rocker arms. If they are self aligning? I have no idea. I told the machine shop what I wanted and they bought the parts.
Here is the picture bigger!
there should be no reason why they would have had to make the holes in the head bigger, and the guideplates machining is VERY minimal. there is NO reason they should have had to retap the head. that being said, something looks off about those rockers, almost as if they're too short.
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Improperly set up guideplates caused that. They should not have opened up the guide plates at all.
What was your train of thought for this mod? The stock 98-02 rockers are FAR more efficient than stock SBC rockers. You went backwards... Coulda just swapped the newer style rockers in and had the machine work done for those for the same price and gotten the same thing. Or gotten Self aligning full roller rockers.
Am I missing something here?
Things to check would be...
What bee hive springs? Stockers? not stock? There are alot of beehive style springs out there...alot of them with very specific coil bind heights too...that may be where your running into your issue with the noise.
Likely you may have a collapsed lifter too, with the valvetrain slack did you have them run the oil pump to prime the system before you went to try and start it?
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A few things to check 1) Guide plate slots are to big. 2) Valve lash to loose, 3) Pushrod guides in head also opened up to much. Could also be wrong guideplates, ie the slots are not long enough allowing the pushrod to come out of the slot! Also check the camshaft,if it is ground on a factory style billet they may have had to shrink the size of the base cicle in order to give the lift the specs required,this may require the use of longer pushrods that will solve your issue .Good luck.
Further to my post,if you notice in the picture the rockers in the closed postion appear to be on the very edge of the valve,ready to slide off,this indicates you need longer pushrods!
ok they re-taped the head to accept the rockers from the small block. These rockers are 1.6 ratio not the stock 1.5 found in the ln2. These rockers would not work w/ the ln2 studs. So that's why we went w/ these rockers. As for why they are not roller rockers is because I wanted it to appear "stock" if some one were to look under the valve cover. The guide plates and hole were machined for clearance, if it was machined to much ...well that I don't know?
Further add to my post,those rocker nuts are tightened down a lot,studs mounted to high due to the thickness of the guide plate,machine shop never milled the head to compensate.That simple mistake is a red light to the rest of the job!!
Thanks for the replies...it is the stock camshaft.
The shop gave the long block back w/ out oil. So I put a little Lucas on top of the lifters and filled the pan w/ oil. Then I turned the motor over , on ignition, and no plugs, in spurts until it got to about 50# oil press.
I can tell that the other rockers seam to off to one side as well, so I guess I need to find out why?
oldschool59 wrote:Further add to my post,those rocker nuts are tightened down a lot,studs mounted to high due to the thickness of the guide plate,machine shop never milled the head to compensate.That simple mistake is a red light to the rest of the job!!
I'm not sure I follow you on this? Can you explain a little more?
The nuts can still be tightened down even more. The machine shop said that I should not have to adjust any thing as far as the valves go?
I dont know if that was correct or not?
Rich Smith wrote:Thanks for the replies...it is the stock camshaft.
The shop gave the long block back w/ out oil. So I put a little Lucas on top of the lifters and filled the pan w/ oil. Then I turned the motor over , on ignition, and no plugs, in spurts until it got to about 50# oil press.
I can tell that the other rockers seam to off to one side as well, so I guess I need to find out why?
sorry cant edit, should say lucas on the rockers and Ignition was off
Rich Smith wrote:ok they re-taped the head to accept the rockers from the small block. These rockers are 1.6 ratio not the stock 1.5 found in the ln2. These rockers would not work w/ the ln2 studs. So that's why we went w/ these rockers. As for why they are not roller rockers is because I wanted it to appear "stock" if some one were to look under the valve cover. The guide plates and hole were machined for clearance, if it was machined to much ...well that I don't know?
i have SBC stamped roller tipped rockers on my car. didnt have to tap anything. ARP makes proper studs with a 3/8 top and m10 bottom.sounds to me like you got burned BADLY by the machine shop.
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Rich Grayo Jr. wrote:Rich Smith wrote:ok they re-taped the head to accept the rockers from the small block. These rockers are 1.6 ratio not the stock 1.5 found in the ln2. These rockers would not work w/ the ln2 studs. So that's why we went w/ these rockers. As for why they are not roller rockers is because I wanted it to appear "stock" if some one were to look under the valve cover. The guide plates and hole were machined for clearance, if it was machined to much ...well that I don't know?
i have SBC stamped roller tipped rockers on my car. didnt have to tap anything. ARP makes proper studs with a 3/8 top and m10 bottom.sounds to me like you got burned BADLY by the machine shop.
Do you think the fact that they re-taped the holes and used new studs is my problem? Or are you just saying I got ripped off? I'm just interested in figuring out what "could" be my problem and "potential" ways of fixing this, so when I call the machine shop on Monday I have some Ideas to go with.
So far there are some good points made!!!
Rich Smith wrote:
Do you think the fact that they re-taped the holes and used new studs is my problem?
among other things, could very well be.
Quote:
Or are you just saying I got ripped off?
i wasn't ONLY saying that, but yes, i was saying it.
Quote:
I'm just interested in figuring out what "could" be my problem and "potential" ways of fixing this, so when I call the machine shop on Monday I have some Ideas to go with.
So far there are some good points made!!!
sounds like to me you needed to do more research before jumping into this project. not many shops get requests for work on the ln2, so i wouldn't be surprised to find they had no clue what they were doing with it.
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Rick
When installing guideplates and screw in rockers you have to machine the head under the guideplate in order to compensate for the thickness of the new guideplate and any difference in the new studs to keep the stud height the same as the originals.This should be routine for any shop to do,yours appear to be to high.
I also just read that you are using the stock cam so disregard my response involving the cam's base-circle diameter.
When you change the ratio of a rocker arm you are changing the valve train geometry.All aspects must be considered including pushrod length and rocker height.Visually your geometry appears to be out of wack,you need to start checking. Does your rocker stud allow enough travel for proper valve lash? Are the pushrods the right length,you need to measure this? If the guideplates are cut to wide, measure the width and compare this to pushrod diameter.
Mr Smith, there have been a lot of
replies here from people who appear to be talking out of their anal passages. I think the most important thing you can tell us is what the specs are on the valve springs, and give us close-ups of the guide plate slots with the pushrods installed.
Don't worry about the "guideplate thickness", those were stock on '95s so there's no worry about milling the head for them.
I'd suggest readjusting the rockers yourself, as the shop may have had them too tight or too loose.
Also, was your head decked much?
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
OHV notec wrote:Mr Smith, there have been a lot of replies here from people who appear to be talking out of their anal passages. I think the most important thing you can tell us is what the specs are on the valve springs, and give us close-ups of the guide plate slots with the pushrods installed.
Don't worry about the "guideplate thickness", those were stock on '95s so there's no worry about milling the head for them.
I'd suggest readjusting the rockers yourself, as the shop may have had them too tight or too loose.
Also, was your head decked much?
Just tryin to help,didn't expect to get insulted from a small dicked no-it-all!!!!!!!
Wow, pull some new guideplates. They F'd those up!
oldschool59 wrote:Just tryin to help,didn't expect to get insulted from a small dicked no-it-all!!!!!!!
There you go, presenting
as fact, once again. If you don't
know something
for sure, use the phrases "I think" or "I believe". It would suck to have someone destroy something or spend unnecessary money because they truly believed you on a wild guess.
Oh yeah, it's "
know-it-all
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
I have a 96 block w/ guide plates. Would I need to oped these at all for the rockers or use as is? How about adjusting the valves?
oldschool59 wrote:Further add to my post,those rocker nuts are tightened down a lot,studs mounted to high due to the thickness of the guide plate,machine shop never milled the head to compensate.That simple mistake is a red light to the rest of the job!!
Why do I think that the shop thought they could just torque-to-limit like a pre-'98 calls for with
stock rockers & collapsed the lifters?
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
oldschool59 wrote:OHV notec wrote:Wow, pull some new guideplates. They F'd those up!oldschool59 wrote:Just tryin to help,didn't expect to get insulted from a small dicked no-it-all!!!!!!!
There you go, presenting as fact, once again. If you don't know something for sure, use the phrases "I think" or "I believe". It would suck to have someone destroy something or spend unnecessary money because they truly believed you on a wild guess.
Oh yeah, it's "know-it-all
I never presented anything as a fact!I simply made a few suggestions. Not enough information was supplied to form a conclusion so I was simply giving out some ideas that the op could check.I asumed that someone that was getting involved in a hi-perf build that includes changing rocker arm geometry would be capable of checking basic things and maybe understanding what was happening.I was incorrect obviously.When the op asked "how to adjust valve lash I realize how little he knows,no dissrespect intended to the op.
What I did not appreciate was the insult and the condesending tone in the response directed at me.I have over 30 yrs experience in engine building and mechanics as a profesion so I do have a bit of knowledge.
I also will apologize to you for my insult as that was uncalled for.
Sorry to sludge up this thread .To the op get some new guideplates and please have someone knowledgeable with engines check over the job because I would question the workmanship of any shop that would let a head out of the door with that kind of mess!!!
Could have fooled me. The section quoted by Dimer above sounds an awful lot like a piece of information presented factually...
My original post wasn't directed at anyone individually, I just wanted to point out that some of the suggestions made were, well, quite illogical.
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
