I did some searching and read that you can use the LC-1 as your stock upstream also. But I also read it wasnt as wasy as just hook it up and go because the voltage is different. I couldnt find the write up. Any info would be awsome.
I know PJ did it last year. That's all i know about it.
I had heard the same and that he did a writeup but I can't find it.
You have to program the other output from the LC-1. Look at the directions for it and it will tell you how to do the programing.
I searched again and found it. Thanks everyone!
mine is a 7 wire unit, and the ones out now are supposedly 6 wire.
please post back in here how it works out for you.. I've done this to my 2004 DD on two seperate occasions with the same LC-1, the car worked flawlessly.
a buddy of mine tried doing the same method with a 6 wire and wasn't as lucky.. so post up the details about your setup and if/ how it works out for you.
and as a side note: if you want, you can power the LC-1 from the heater circuit of the stock O2 sensor, which should also eliminate any "heater circuit malfunction" codes you may get... although its sort of moot since you can just disable the heater codes with HPT.
Ill have to check again, I've had it for a couple years and never had the need to hook it up. I'm not sure if its 6 or 7 wire. Thanks for the info....hope it works.
heater circuit codes are very easy to kill with hpt or with resistors
ive attempted narrowband sim with several widebands, the issue that pops up always is the slow response code
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
I thought you can change the responce time to 1/6 second so it is more friendly with the stock setup.
The 6 wire lc-1 is what I have in my 99 sunfire 2.4 5 speed swap car. All of the lc-1's if 6 or 7 wires come programmed on the one wire. Brown maybe off my head to act as a narrowband. I just ran the narrow band output to the o2 wire and was done. Never set anything and been in the car for 3-4 years now with over 40k on it.
Though I am using a 97 harness and computer. So I don't have the ground wire for the o2 sensor. That the two wires o2's use.
Also if using as upstream on I know 02 and below there is not heater circuit on the o2 sensor. They are all one wire and 2 wire o2's. Not sure on the eco in 02 though. Though yes you can program different things on the lc-1. Like when it shows the o2 sensor is heated up based on the mv's and what not. That is usually what sets the pcm off when using a lc-1 as a narrowband. As some/most cars watch the o2 sensor voltage during warm up. If it is instant where it should be or sooner than it should. It will set a code for a dead o2 sensor.
I have not gotten around to messing with it yet but I did look and I have the 2 wire o2.
I believe that started in 99. I know 00 for sure. One wire is the one you want to tap into that sends the signal to the pcm. I want to say one is white and black. I could go look on my other sunfire. But you just have a normal one wire o2 sensor technically. The other wire is a ground from the pcm to reduce the problem of the o2 sensor rusting in the exhaust loosing ground. I believe it could also cause a offset.
Never tie the lc1 into o2 sensor wiring. As for grounds and hot. The hot switched may be fine but not sure either. Though would need to be wired up to the after cat o2 if wanting to do that way. You want to hook it up like the instructions say or on the forum. All grounds on the same piece of metal but different lugs. To reduce offsets. I figure you know this though so just saying. It should be plug and play for you though. As in no programming. If it gives you problems change some of the settings.
Like I said though mine is fine on the stock settings.
personally I wouldnt use a wideband as a narrowband. Narrowbands have a ton of resolution around lambda 1 (stoich) while widebands do not. A narrowband has 1 volt worth of resolution to distribute close to lambda 1 and then basically no resolution elsewhere, a wideband has to distribute 5 volts worth of resolution from 10:1 to 17:1 (or different numbers depending on your wideband). That means you essentially have 1 volt to .5-1 points of data (ie the narrowband reads from 14.2:1-15.3:1) while the wideband only has 5 volts to 7 points of data or 1 votl to 1.4 points of data, that about half the resolution in the area around lambda 1. These numbers are kind of pulled out of the air for demonstration purposes, and its just something to consider.
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Leafy wrote:personally I wouldnt use a wideband as a narrowband. Narrowbands have a ton of resolution around lambda 1 (stoich) while widebands do not. A narrowband has 1 volt worth of resolution to distribute close to lambda 1 and then basically no resolution elsewhere, a wideband has to distribute 5 volts worth of resolution from 10:1 to 17:1 (or different numbers depending on your wideband). That means you essentially have 1 volt to .5-1 points of data (ie the narrowband reads from 14.2:1-15.3:1) while the wideband only has 5 volts to 7 points of data or 1 votl to 1.4 points of data, that about half the resolution in the area around lambda 1. These numbers are kind of pulled out of the air for demonstration purposes, and its just something to consider.
have you seen a voltage output for a narrowband sensor? it isn't linear... so this "1 volt worth of resolution" you're talking about means nothing.. the usable range of voltage is maybe half that.
wideband output IS linear, which makes it more accurate than a narrowband,
always.
I know its non linear, but the stock computer is expecting that, not the linear output of a wideband. And that nonlinearity is what packs all the extra resolution at and around lambda 1. You know? A wideband is great and a REQUIREMENT for tuning, but its a poor replacement for a narrowband.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Leafy wrote:I know its non linear, but the stock computer is expecting that, not the linear output of a wideband. And that nonlinearity is what packs all the extra resolution at and around lambda 1. You know? A wideband is great and a REQUIREMENT for tuning, but its a poor replacement for a narrowband.
maybe you didn't read the original thread.
the LC-1 can output a voltage sweep that replicates the stock O2 sensor 0-1V.
why?
because instead of having to go through the trouble of welding in another bung into your shiny new header, or stock exhaust, you can simply remove the narrowband, replace it with the new bosch wideband, and wire it up to not only pump out 0-5V to your tuning equipment or gauge, but also output a 0-1V to the factory computer so that it stays happy.
get it now?
ok so for an update I have wired the wideband up as the stock o2 sensor and I drove it around for a total of probably 45 miutes with it throwing no codes as of yet. It is the 6 wire version. so far so good.
Meh...I forgot to enable closed loop. After I did that the car is freaking out! Afr's from 9 to 19. Disable it and the car runs fine.
Zs Z wrote:Meh...I forgot to enable closed loop. After I did that the car is freaking out! Afr's from 9 to 19. Disable it and the car runs fine.
did you mess with your VE table for low rpm and cruise?
you should leave those alone and just tune high RPM stuff.
I used the histogram for the low rpm afr error that I got from shifted back in the day. Runs great in open loop. I'm going to try it with the stock o2 hooked back up. And if that doesn't work ill start from scratch n not touch those tables.
