Ok so a little background...I race a 2.2 ohv, with a Isuzu trans. This is a dirt track car. I have had some pretty extensive work done to this motor and it runs pretty strong. The problem I have is trying to run w/ the twin cam guys, Neon's, Ford Escorts, Fusions, Honda's. These guys will all pull on me. If I'm in front of them they have to work to get around me, if I'm behind them I just don't have enough to get buy unless they mess up.
I'm just a little off from them and that's what I looking to take care of. So I guess I'm looking to step up to a twin cam motor. I am very comfortable w/ the Isuzu trans and would like to continue to run it, so that throws the Ecotec out.
I've been looking into the 2.3/2.4 and this seams to be the way to go, what I need is someone with experience working these motors to give me some Ideas.
What I'm seeing is. 2.4 block w/ 2.3 pistons, 2.3 head, secret cams? Not sure what else?
I run 110 octane race gas, so compression is not a problem, I have no key cylinder so I will need a way to buy pass any paslock.
I need to run a stock air box and air intake tube. I also need to run a stock exhaust manifold, no header.
Any suggestions will be appreciated so I can start putting a build list together, Thanks!
oiling system from a 2.3 is a must. I think there is a GP for a special block that allows a stock pan. from what I heard the ho/lo mani loses power versus the 2.4 mani, so I would research that. you can do a few things to the 2.4 intake tube to make it flow better as well.
I know many people go to karo for quad parts
i would ask zyaa and speedline02 they seems to know their stuff.
i wouldnt run the 2.3 head, just hog out the 2.4 head as big as you can on the exhaust side and run HO cams.
do you have to run the 2.4? or can you run whatever you want? if so id say drop an 89-92 HO 2.3 quad 4 in there. that way officials cant bitch when they see an 89-94 circa intake manifold on a supposed 96 up motor.
it all depends on what your rules are as far as any other advice i can give.
180hp in 1989 or 145hp in 2002, you decide. >
rules say no porting or polishing, acid dipping ect. Also they say stock motor and trans for year, make, model. I would not get that hung up on the details of what parts came on what years. The tech inspector is looking at 10+ different makes/models every week so I don't think that they will get that crazy about an intake, as long as it was stock.
Z yaaaa, you seam to know a lot about these motors so I'm interested it what you think would be the best set up!
well, my machinist builds quite a few quad motors for circle track cars around here, plenty of them have multiple trophies and victories to go around. he has told me some tricks here and there...
one thing they do quite often is like you mentioned... used 2.3 pistons (which are exactly .080 larger than 2.4's). they pop up out of the bore a bit due to a different pin location so the tops need cut down a bit for proper fitment. unsure on if it completely removes the dish or not.
ill have more on the subject later but for now the ball and chain is dragging me out the door
180hp in 1989 or 145hp in 2002, you decide. >
Looking to start putting this together. Any more ideas on which way to go? Is it possible to hit the 200 hp mark here? That's my goal!
just use the 2.3...forget mix matching parts. grab a complete 2.3 quad4, use the w41 cams it CAME with and your at 190hp already. maybe go with a higher compression piston and whatever else you can get away with and youll be pretty damn close to your 200bhp goal.
If you use the 1995 Z24 pcm you can run the engine perfectly and not have to worry about passlock or any of that. you can keep your isuzu with this engine, OR swap to the older 1992-94 getrag with the better gear ratios. all up to you of course. do this and youll have an engine that revs up quickly, puts down good power in close to stock form, and is easy to run and cheap to get. ....... but its your choice
I would do as Brad says and stick with the 2.4 head for the tech inspection purposes. You wont be able to run a stock airbox with the 2.3 manifold and I dont think the tech inspectgor would be quite that dumb. It isnt so easy adapting a 2.4 manifod to a 2.3 since its made out of composite. HO cams sound like they would help you and the 2.3 oil pump setup. The block mentioned allows you to retain your stock oil pan instead of a modified one.
Brad how reliable are the 2.3 pistons with the tops cut down? Does he use the stock cast pistons? How do you think these would hold up on the street?
no idea on street use but if they can handle 8000 rpm for 20 laps all summer long i wouldnt see an issue.
and yep, so cast slugs.
180hp in 1989 or 145hp in 2002, you decide. >
Good info here!! A little confusion though...Stick w/ the stock 2.3 or add 2.4 parts to the 2.3? Can I run the 2.3 stock air box?
I can start searching the yards for the parts and lining up the machine shop to get this done. What will the stock 95 2.3 PCM redline at? I would like this to turn some R's!!!
I will also be able to get any machine work done, decking the block, heads ect... Thanks for you help!
z yaaaa wrote:no idea on street use but if they can handle 8000 rpm for 20 laps all summer long i wouldnt see an issue.
and yep, so cast slugs.
Awsome...thats fun to hear
Rich Smith wrote:Good info here!! A little confusion though...Stick w/ the stock 2.3 or add 2.4 parts to the 2.3? Can I run the 2.3 stock air box?
I can start searching the yards for the parts and lining up the machine shop to get this done. What will the stock 95 2.3 PCM redline at? I would like this to turn some R's!!!
I will also be able to get any machine work done, decking the block, heads ect... Thanks for you help!
dude did you not read????? Scott told you if you want to run the 2.3 use the 2.3 PCM, they high rev, can hold the 6000+ rpm that you will enjoy, sure you can play with it like he did, but you are limited on what you can do, such as if the tech knows his cars, he would know the intake manifold is different...2.4 will not line up right and could very well kill your performance, so a donor car would be great, and he is right on gear ratios, its your choice on tranny
As Brad pointed out to you port out the exhaust side of the 2.4 head (if you feel better do the intake side), run HO cams, and get a proper tune, the 2.3 oiling system is the best, or you can go route of bored out Mellings, both engines have their strengths, if you use the 2.4 you will have the stock intake, TB(unless you swap), and will look stock
"As I lay rubber down the street, I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride." -Amen
Look not trying to be a DB here but I did read, Scott said "just use the 2.3...forget mix matching parts" and ZsZ said "I would do as Brad says and stick with the 2.4 head for the tech inspection purposes. You wont be able to run a stock air box with the 2.3 manifold and I don't think the tech inspector would be quite that dumb. It isn't so easy adapting a 2.4 manifold to a 2.3 since its made out of composite. HO cams sound like they would help you and the 2.3 oil pump setup. The block mentioned allows you to retain your stock oil pan instead of a modified one."
So you can see that there is TWO different things being said, I don't know who brad is? So that is why I was confused. Also your first paragraph is One complete run on sentence. I'm not familiar enough w/ this set up to just assume that I know what your trying to say. Others very well maybe able to follow what you are writing, but I'm still a little lost.
The factory PCM (95 2.3) revs to 6000rpm? I'm hoping to get higher than that.
Also what can play with, the the PCM or the head/intake? Also using a stock PCM would be the easiest way to go if it will work, but if it won't and I need to tune, am I better off w/ a 97+ and HPT?
Ok so this is what I believe I'm looking at here, use a 2.3 bottom end(stock oil system), fly cut stock pistons, 2.4 head, ported, HO cams 2.4 intake.
This set up will need to be tuned so no 2.3 PCM? Does this sound like I'm following you guys correctly? Again I do appreciate all the info from everyone, thank you!
the 2.3 came STOCK in a 95 3rd gen cavalier...which means you can swap a quad4 into your car and simply use the AIRBOX that came with the 95..poof, you completely stock !! and the 95 pcm is obd1...stock rev limit is 6800..but since its obd1 you CAN actually CHIP it...several people on hear make chips for fairly cheap , or you could make your own. the w41 quad reved to 7200 stock, and can handle more.
Like i said..the cheapest and most effective way to get the power you are looking for is to get an HO 2.3 quad4, install w41 cams. swap it in with your isuzu if you want. use the stock airbox from the 95 Z24 cavalier as well as the pcm and wiring. Using the pcm will allow you to run the engine without any issue and you can still tune it easily as well. Doing this you are looking at very little engine modification and little money spent.
If you want to modify a 2.4 with the things being mentioned you are looking at spending quite a bit more on machine work, parts, etc.... and if anyone tries to say that the 2.3 wasnt a stock engine for your car...well...simply unbolt the idi cover and bolt down your 2.4 cover............the untrained eye would NOT tell the difference.
scott (section8cav) wrote:the 2.3 came STOCK in a 95 3rd gen cavalier...which means you can swap a quad4 into your car and simply use the AIRBOX that came with the 95..poof, you completely stock !! and the 95 pcm is obd1...stock rev limit is 6800..but since its obd1 you CAN actually CHIP it...several people on hear make chips for fairly cheap , or you could make your own. the w41 quad reved to 7200 stock, and can handle more.
Like i said..the cheapest and most effective way to get the power you are looking for is to get an HO 2.3 quad4, install w41 cams..
If i was you get either a 90-92 GAGT, GTZ, Calais W40 car it has a stock 180hp quad 4 If you can find or get a Achieva SCX it has a W41 package which is a 190hp. If i was you try to find you a stock HO quad 4 car than swap in a set of W41 cams which can be swaped in for like $300 bucks.
