I've secured a 3400 engine with just over 24000 miles on it. I know what I need to do to make the mounts, A/C linkage...but what I can't seem to find and figure out is....
You guys are splicing your existing PCM in your j body into the engine wiring harness, instead of swapping out the PCM for one that comes with the engine? Because I have both and I could go either way.
Also, when you do your wiring, are you soldering the two wires together and heat shrink wrapping them OR are you clipping them directly into the wiring harness?
Thanks guys, I just can't decipher what's going on there in these V6 swap threads, some of them are years long, and it seems like everybody has done something different, or not been explicit about whats going on with their wiring process.
I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait
Quote:
Thanks guys, I just can't decipher what's going on there in these V6 swap threads, some of them are years long, and it seems like everybody has done something different, or not been explicit about whats going on with their wiring process.
That's because everyone does have something different going on.
As for your wire harness, you'll have to find out what works best for you. It's probably easier to cut, solder, and all because you have to extend some wires and shorten some others.
i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick
u will need a 3400 pcm to run the 3400. maybe im reading wrong but wat the stock j pcm is used for is just to run gauges in some swaps. i have two pcms in my car. and i soldered and heat shrunk.
SHOoff wrote:That's because everyone does have something different going on.
Yeahhhhh....... lol
ray gardner wrote:u will need a 3400 pcm to run the 3400. maybe im reading wrong but wat the stock j pcm is used for is just to run gauges in some swaps. i have two pcms in my car. and i soldered and heat shrunk.
Okay.....so all of the wires from the 3400 engine....go to all their connection points in the harnesses that hook up to the 3400 PCM.....which leaves no left over lines, except body control sensors and line......which includes (brakes, speed, air bags, seat belts, lights, etc essentially peripherals).....which essentially turns the J body PCM into a BCM, and the 3400 PCM into THE PCM.
So all engine sensors from my dash should plug into the 3400 PCM no prob..RPM, temp, knock sensor etc.....
And BTW this motor is from a Grand AM GT, so I did find those wiring charts for the j body and for the Grand Am.....here on J body Org, many thanks to you guys again!
Really I'm not that far into doing the swap, I still need to get the engine, degrease it, then I'm sending off to WOT-TECH to have the heads and intake manifold P & Ped and milled. I'm also going to get a new set of roller rocker arms from them, springs, and valves.
I found a place that makes the top mount....but is there any place that can make me a lower mount, or anybody here on the forums that can help me out? Then I need the dogbone to link up to that lower mount, I think I found a place for that. I could make them myself but I don't have all the tools for fabricating. Got a welder......just no acetylene torch...
Anybody have any considerations to add?
I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait
Instead of making a custom lower mount, I made a custom bar to go from the stock v6 dogbone bracket to the j-body dog bone bracket. It's solid, I took the metal tube the bolts go though out of the factory dogbone and welded a pipe in between them, I will have to get a pic one day.
- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs
Oedwards wrote:Instead of making a custom lower mount, I made a custom bar to go from the stock v6 dogbone bracket to the j-body dog bone bracket. It's solid, I took the metal tube the bolts go though out of the factory dogbone and welded a pipe in between them, I will have to get a pic one day.
I think I've seen that before! I'm not quite sure what I'm looking at on some of these build threads at the moment, which is what makes it hard. I'm not going to have a solid feel for how things really line up until the damn thing is in there.
I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait
i never understood why people dont use use OBD1 from and earlier cav with a 3.1 and have a custom chip burned for it. Sure youd have to run custom gauges but hell whats the problem with that. To me it beats having superharness with 2 ecms and a crapload of custom wiring.
To use the j-body pcm to drive the gauges you need to run certain wires from the harness to both it and the 3400 pcm, namely speed and rpm, coolant temp, and everything else on the gauge cluster. And theres no reason to run obdI the 3.4 is supported by HPTuners.
Also I'd suggest not soldering or using crimp connectors. The best way to do it is to buy all new oem plugs, or at least re-pin the oem plugs with the correct length wire remember;
re-pinning > solder > crimp connectors.
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2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
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Quiklilcav wrote:jfire26 wrote:I found a place that makes the top mount....but is there any place that can make me a lower mount
I make a matched set for the 3400 into a 3rd gen. Reviews from others here who have used them are good. PM me if you're interested in the info.
That would be fantastic. As you can imagine though....currently I'm broke, it might be a couple of months before I hit you up for a purchase, so I hope that the offer still will stand at that point. I would much rather support a fellow tuner in his endeavors.
Leafy wrote:Also I'd suggest not soldering or using crimp connectors. The best way to do it is to buy all new oem plugs, or at least re-pin the oem plugs with the correct length wire remember;
re-pinning > solder > crimp connectors.
You're talking about directly repinning into the harness? Can I use the existing harnesses I already have and just repin the ends into that? And don't worry I would never use crimp connectors!!!! I hate those things, they have failed me way to many times in the past to trust with a motor!
I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait
soldering is just as good as re-pinning if done correctly with heat shrink . . . a crimp connector can be used reliably by soldering the connector to the wire and then taped over but is really only recommended for situations where you are wanting to make something easily removable (not sure what you would want to use it for but it is an option)
Whats up people?
Soldering is not as good as re-pinning, solder connections are brittle and have broken even if properly heat shrunk. Crimps are terrible from anything carrying data as they will induce signal noise, at least the crimps that you buy at radio shack. Also stacking ring terminals on the same ground stud is bad.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
i agree solder connections can break over time . . . in an application that has a high degree of movement. if your wiring harness is moving that much then you haven't strapped it properly. it should receive about the same amount of movement as when you solder in a radio harness. 6 years ago i soldered an abs connection together right at the caliper and have yet to see even a little bit of stress on the connection.
Whats up people?
Leafy wrote:Soldering is not as good as re-pinning, solder connections are brittle and have broken even if properly heat shrunk. Crimps are terrible from anything carrying data as they will induce signal noise, at least the crimps that you buy at radio shack. Also stacking ring terminals on the same ground stud is bad.
yeah good point, solders can get brittle. Additionally depending on what type of solder you use you can cause signal noise and improper resistance if the right type isn't used. If done properly and placed properly they can work fine and last a long long time.
I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait
jfire26 wrote:SHOoff wrote:That's because everyone does have something different going on.
Yeahhhhh....... lol
ray gardner wrote:u will need a 3400 pcm to run the 3400. maybe im reading wrong but wat the stock j pcm is used for is just to run gauges in some swaps. i have two pcms in my car. and i soldered and heat shrunk.
Okay.....so all of the wires from the 3400 engine....go to all their connection points in the harnesses that hook up to the 3400 PCM.....which leaves no left over lines, except body control sensors and line......which includes (brakes, speed, air bags, seat belts, lights, etc essentially peripherals).....which essentially turns the J body PCM into a BCM, and the 3400 PCM into THE PCM.
So all engine sensors from my dash should plug into the 3400 PCM no prob..RPM, temp, knock sensor etc.....
And BTW this motor is from a Grand AM GT, so I did find those wiring charts for the j body and for the Grand Am.....here on J body Org, many thanks to you guys again!
Really I'm not that far into doing the swap, I still need to get the engine, degrease it, then I'm sending off to WOT-TECH to have the heads and intake manifold P & Ped and milled. I'm also going to get a new set of roller rocker arms from them, springs, and valves.
I found a place that makes the top mount....but is there any place that can make me a lower mount, or anybody here on the forums that can help me out? Then I need the dogbone to link up to that lower mount, I think I found a place for that. I could make them myself but I don't have all the tools for fabricating. Got a welder......just no acetylene torch...
Anybody have any considerations to add?
For the engine mount. If you're going to use the WOT-TECH or Grand Am upper mount, you'll have to have an adapter to fit inside the frame rail on your car. A piece of flat stock with a couple of wheel studs is all you really need to do the job there. Hardest part is fitting it inside that rail and getting it in the holes. But I do HIGHLY reccomend that upper mount, I have it and it is WONDERFUL.
WOT-TECH, I cannot see milling the heads down. Since your pistons come proud of the bore when the piston reaches TDC, this makes shaving the head impossible, or you start to get a clunky noise from the engine.
I have a diagram somewhere for a lower mount. You'd have to get pieces of the right size, or find a way to get things cut down, then weld it together. If you wish I can look it up.
For running 2 PCM's, the coolant sensor will get you a bit. I used a GM 3 wire sensor. You'll find this for a 93 Cavalier, 2.2 OHV. You'll also need a TPS connector (snag the one off your old harness). This sensor has 2 leads and will allow one computer to read it for running the engine, and the other to read it for the gauge. I couldn't get mine to work right trying to tie both PCM's to a 2 wire sensor. The MS would constantly get a 60 some degree temp reading, and stay in OL all the time.
Quiklilcav wrote:Leafy wrote:Soldering is not as good as re-pinning, solder connections are brittle and have broken even if properly heat shrunk.
Soldering, if done properly, is a very reliable way to splice a harness. The key thing is you must twist the wires together well before applying the solder. As mentioned, your wiring harness is not moving around enough to worry about them breaking. Also, the solder should only be lightly coating the connection. The wires themselves should be holding together well without it. Think of the solder like the cotter pin on your ball joint. The nut is doing all the work, but the cotter pin keeps the nut from turning loose over time. I have made more than one harness by soldering the splices, with great reliability, even in the cold winter.
And, of course, heat shrink is definitely a necessity.
I have to agree. I soldered mine and the only problem I had was trying to get the @!#$ back apart when I wanted to take them apart. If it falls apart on its own, you just blow at soldering.
i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick
SHOoff wrote:For the engine mount. If you're going to use the WOT-TECH or Grand Am upper mount, you'll have to have an adapter to fit inside the frame rail on your car. A piece of flat stock with a couple of wheel studs is all you really need to do the job there. Hardest part is fitting it inside that rail and getting it in the holes. But I do HIGHLY reccomend that upper mount, I have it and it is WONDERFUL.
Wait....what?
SHOoff wrote:WOT-TECH, I cannot see milling the heads down. Since your pistons come proud of the bore when the piston reaches TDC, this makes shaving the head impossible, or you start to get a clunky noise from the engine.
Yep, I actually read that somewhere else on a V6 swap forum after posting that. But why then do they offer the service?
SHOoff wrote:I have a diagram somewhere for a lower mount. You'd have to get pieces of the right size, or find a way to get things cut down, then weld it together. If you wish I can look it up.
Yea I saw that on one of your posts in a V6 swap forum. Thanks BTW! I have a feeling it's about time I'm going to need to get the tools I need to do some in home fabrication. What all did you use in making yours? Some 14 gauge steel, acetylene torch, welder? Drill press?
SHOoff wrote:For running 2 PCM's, the coolant sensor will get you a bit. I used a GM 3 wire sensor. You'll find this for a 93 Cavalier, 2.2 OHV. You'll also need a TPS connector (snag the one off your old harness). This sensor has 2 leads and will allow one computer to read it for running the engine, and the other to read it for the gauge. I couldn't get mine to work right trying to tie both PCM's to a 2 wire sensor. The MS would constantly get a 60 some degree temp reading, and stay in OL all the time.
What did you end up doing then? I've read that on the 2000+ PCM's you can just run the whole car off of that. Gauges and all?
SHOoff wrote:I have to agree. I soldered mine and the only problem I had was trying to get the @!#$ back apart when I wanted to take them apart. If it falls apart on its own, you just blow at soldering.
Yeah pretty much.
I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait
if u want to use a the mount that bolts into the stock j mount i belive 98- n body. i have the whole thing if u wanna by it. pretty much just pay shipping. tho i havent tested the gauges i first hooked the 3400 harness to all the engine sensors then am figuring wat the j pcm needs. u can just splice into the op sensor to both . u need a temp sensor (some1 said a older three wire sensor would work) vss input,(i put the vss only into the j pcm since im 5 speed), splice the alternator wires to both, all fuel sensors to the j pcm .......ect. its just one thing 2 a time. wat year is ur car? if ur 2000+ theres a re flash u can do so u dont need the two pcms. and if ur 99- theres no bcm.
ray gardner wrote:if u want to use a the mount that bolts into the stock j mount i belive 98- n body. i have the whole thing if u wanna by it. pretty much just pay shipping. tho i havent tested the gauges i first hooked the 3400 harness to all the engine sensors then am figuring wat the j pcm needs. u can just splice into the op sensor to both . u need a temp sensor (some1 said a older three wire sensor would work) vss input,(i put the vss only into the j pcm since im 5 speed), splice the alternator wires to both, all fuel sensors to the j pcm .......ect. its just one thing 2 a time. wat year is ur car? if ur 2000+ theres a re flash u can do so u dont need the two pcms. and if ur 99- theres no bcm.
Car is a 2001, yeah that's what I was hearing about I think. What program are you flashing to the PCM bios? something from a W body? Where can I find this program?
Yeah I'll buy that mount from you, then I just need the bracket to adjust it up 1" right? Send Paypal request to andyclnic@yahoo.com
I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait
I think it's an impala flash. I also think it says in the v6 swap sticky.
- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs
jfire26 wrote:SHOoff wrote:For the engine mount. If you're going to use the WOT-TECH or Grand Am upper mount, you'll have to have an adapter to fit inside the frame rail on your car. A piece of flat stock with a couple of wheel studs is all you really need to do the job there. Hardest part is fitting it inside that rail and getting it in the holes. But I do HIGHLY reccomend that upper mount, I have it and it is WONDERFUL.
Wait....what?
The 99+ N-body upper engine mount is what I use for an upper in my car. It is an excellent mount. Especially after I destroyed 2 stockers.
Quote:
SHOoff wrote:WOT-TECH, I cannot see milling the heads down. Since your pistons come proud of the bore when the piston reaches TDC, this makes shaving the head impossible, or you start to get a clunky noise from the engine.
Yep, I actually read that somewhere else on a V6 swap forum after posting that. But why then do they offer the service?
Not sure, you might ask them for clarification on what they actually do.
Quote:
SHOoff wrote:I have a diagram somewhere for a lower mount. You'd have to get pieces of the right size, or find a way to get things cut down, then weld it together. If you wish I can look it up.
Yea I saw that on one of your posts in a V6 swap forum. Thanks BTW! I have a feeling it's about time I'm going to need to get the tools I need to do some in home fabrication. What all did you use in making yours? Some 14 gauge steel, acetylene torch, welder? Drill press?
I had mine made for me. But It's nothing real special. I actually wish mine was better made than what it is too.
Quote:
SHOoff wrote:For running 2 PCM's, the coolant sensor will get you a bit. I used a GM 3 wire sensor. You'll find this for a 93 Cavalier, 2.2 OHV. You'll also need a TPS connector (snag the one off your old harness). This sensor has 2 leads and will allow one computer to read it for running the engine, and the other to read it for the gauge. I couldn't get mine to work right trying to tie both PCM's to a 2 wire sensor. The MS would constantly get a 60 some degree temp reading, and stay in OL all the time.
What did you end up doing then? I've read that on the 2000+ PCM's you can just run the whole car off of that. Gauges and all?
I run the 3 wire sensor. I have 2 computers because I run a MS-II unit for the engine. The stocker is in there to run my gauges. For 2000+ there's a way to run a stock ECM in there, there's been several posts on it. I never really pay a whole lot of attention to exactly what everyone does for that because I've never considered it to be of any concern.
i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick
Is there anyone that offers this conversion?
In other words, I have no way to do the swap myself as I have no work space, the correct tools and equipment to perform such a task.
Any guestimates on a price?
Someone in the classifieds had a 3400 J for sale, and I wish that I had bought it.
I had the money and then something dumb came up like always...
My wife's 2003 Ecotec 2.2 liter Sunfire:
* 2 1/4 inch in and dual 2 inch out muffler Trans Am muffler
* 2 1/4 piping to a very long 2 1/4 inch resonator
* 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter
* an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition
* 8 gauge ground wire kit
* Toyz front strut brace
* Russell stainless steel brake lines all around.
Mike85220 wrote:Is there anyone that offers this conversion?
In other words, I have no way to do the swap myself as I have no work space, the correct tools and equipment to perform such a task.
Any guestimates on a price?
Someone in the classifieds had a 3400 J for sale, and I wish that I had bought it.
I had the money and then something dumb came up like always...
I'm doing my swap in a field
....it sucks
... I so wish I had a garage...
It would be very difficult to find a shop that would do this for you, most mechanics will probably tell you its not possible. You might be able to get a member on here to do a swap for you but I have no idea who might do it for you or what they would charge.
I thought about selling mine. But right now the wire harness is all apart, and i'd have to finish re-wiring it first.
i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick
