I'm just trying to get a consensus on this. I have a 2.2 ecotec, completely forged bottom end with 020" overbore on stock sleeves. What kind of power is everyone pushing on bored over sleeves??? When I retune in the spring, I'm going to shoot for 400 WHP, maybe more if it'll take it. I want it to be reliable though, so that's why I am asking.f
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
400hp is the limit that is listed in the build book. I'd assume it will be alittle less with bored "sleeves" because they would be a bit thinner.
its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa
Yea, i'd take the newer/more current info over the outdated power tests.
its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa
Tinkles wrote:Yea, i'd take the newer/more current info over the outdated power tests.
still proof none the less. me personally, id doubt it can take 750 as well... todd miller and jon both said 450-500 would be achievable on stock bored block. i have the same .020 bore on mine and thats the rating the gave me. doubt ill ever see it but its good to know none the less. ill max my turbo out at 450 before i do the block.
jon always asked me, how many stock blocks do we see crack or blow due to the block itself... and how many do we see pop due to the tune... and he makes a very valid point.
Russ O'Blenes (previously of GM Racing) and I concur that the effective limit is about 550-600 engine HP. Frankly, anything over that power level is starting to be an expensive enough build that potentially risking it to a sleeve failure just begins to be illogical. A sleeve failure can be the death of the engine, as they are typically pretty spectacular, leaving precious few parts to salvage.
I agree that tuning plays a large factor. Detonation can break just about anything, especially in the hands of a less-than-capable tuner. As deotonation can also occur even in the most carefully set up and tuned engines, hedging the bet against financial loss via resleeving remains a good idea for high-effort (600+) builds.
An important side note: The stock sleeves are cast in place. We've seen failures of sleeves at even lower power levels when aftermarket stock replacement sleeves have been used. The difference is significant. These type stock replacement sleeves are only used to repair bore damage, and not to enhance the strength of the block (as are the Darton and LA sleeves to name a couple). As these are thinwall and pressed in, they are even weaker than the stock sleeve, for they lack the inherent bond to the aluminum that the process of casting the block around the sleeves creates.
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Hahn RaceCraft
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ive read 500 or so on several different sites but to be honest i dont care i will push my block with stock sleeves that are bored .20 over till it breaks
RIP JESSE GERARD.....Youll always be in my thoughts and prayers...
I guess it depends on if you want to know how much power they will take for a dyno run or two, versus how much they will take on a daily driver, versus how much they will take with sustained track use. My personal feeling is if you want more than 400hp on a daily basis and/or for frequent track use, consider sleeving or building a gen2 block, where the sleeves are more commonly run in the 500+ hp region.
Nobody here has cracked a sleeve on a forged motor because not many have pushed them past 400whp They can be pushed more but to be reliable looks like 400whp is a good number if you go on cobalt forums and look around. If you have money when your doing the build its worth the extra 1200.
One guy cracked a sleave "412whpcavy" or something like that was his username used to be "2xxwhpcavy".
He popped a sleave around 420whp IIRC, he also swapped injectors and thought it may have been due to some tuning issues, I didn't follow the thread to closely.
Maybe someone here remembers it and can dig it up???
Thats right and he was one of the only ones pushing motor i thought he sleeved motor then had a sleeve issue after that and parted it out.
newt wrote:
due to some tuning issues
exactly. he thought one of his injectors was not firing and thats why it broke. not because it was too much power for the stock sleeve.
I'd be happy with ~ 400 WHP, I'm not gonna push it to the Max. Just want to get to my goal. I've already got over 300 and its nuts as is. My main concern though is reliability.
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
newt wrote:One guy cracked a sleave "412whpcavy" or something like that was his username used to be "2xxwhpcavy".
He popped a sleave around 420whp IIRC, he also swapped injectors and thought it may have been due to some tuning issues, I didn't follow the thread to closely.
Maybe someone here remembers it and can dig it up???
Im pretty sure his sleeve issues were from improper install.
its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa
BuiltNBoosted wrote:newt wrote:
due to some tuning issues
exactly. he thought one of his injectors was not firing and thats why it broke. not because it was too much power for the stock sleeve.
My problem with that is if the injector was not firing then no fuel at all would be in the cylinder, thus no possiblilty of anything breaking cause there would be no ignition possible.
I think his tuning issue was deeper than that, if he had a tuning issue at all.
Tinkles wrote:newt wrote:One guy cracked a sleave "412whpcavy" or something like that was his username used to be "2xxwhpcavy".
He popped a sleave around 420whp IIRC, he also swapped injectors and thought it may have been due to some tuning issues, I didn't follow the thread to closely.
Maybe someone here remembers it and can dig it up???
Im pretty sure his sleeve issues were from improper install.
I was refering to when he broke the stock factory installed sleave.
push it im at 291 whp on a stock engine i would push it farther but my 42lb injectors arent gonna let me go any higher
RIP Cpl Derek Kerns And Cpl Robby Reyes
24th MEU VMM-261 (REIN) V22 Crewchiefs
11 April 2012 Morocco (African Lion)
Yeah were talking about forged internals on stock sleeves not stock engines
Ricardo Rosario wrote:Yeah were talking about forged internals on stock sleeves not stock engines
i understand that my point was more towards every engine is dif for instance im just south os 300 on stock motor where as some have popped at alot lower power levels imo just to be safe sleeve it ill be sleeving mine next fall when i start building my 400+whp build
RIP Cpl Derek Kerns And Cpl Robby Reyes
24th MEU VMM-261 (REIN) V22 Crewchiefs
11 April 2012 Morocco (African Lion)
408whpcavy - Mike Ickes Cracked a stock sleeve because during tuning @ 423 whp #1 stock injector failed leaving that cylinder only running on the RC 550cc injector in the port fueler. He then repaired all factory injectors, rather he replaced them, then due to an incorrect Darton Sleeve job by a performance shop his sleeves sunk causing piston wobble in #3 cylinder and scoring the sleeve resulting in needing a new sleeve/piston, so he sold everything. It wasn't the tuning the cracked the sleeve it was the failure of an injector.
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
Mine probably cracked due to the tune.
But I went darton none the less
blackbirdracing wrote:Mine probably cracked due to the tune.
But I went darton none the less
Cracked the stock sleeve??? What kind of power were you making???
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
I personally believe if you're around 375 whp you should be fine. I wouldnt go pushing much past 450 whp without consideration of sleeving. Mind you, that is over 500 engine hp.
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
Phil G wrote:I personally believe if you're around 375 whp you should be fine. I wouldnt go pushing much past 450 whp without consideration of sleeving. Mind you, that is over 500 engine hp.
Dont know... I ran a 12.4 though...
Well... I'll be hitting the dyno on Saturday... we will see What power I'm making on 22psi and 110 octane... then we shall see how long the block holds together...
I want 500whp
...I am the BEST at what I do...
"I guess your right[BlueBoost]. Me and my slow car are failers."
