Anyone tried it? Just curious how it reacts performance wise only. I'm using the gmpp injectors now so I have no rubber in the rail and it wouldn't be to hard to get rid of the rest of the rubber in my fuel system. As I said just curious if I could run it without using hpt

Sure you could run it without HPT, there are a few other things you can tune it with.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

Im just wondering if it would NEED another tune. Im thinking it might run smoothly because the gm reflash runs pretty rich, maybe it would cancel eachother out... idk, as i said just curious.

The GM reflash isnt even close to commanding the proper A/F ratio that E85 requires.




its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa

Tinkles wrote:The GM reflash isnt even close to commanding the proper A/F ratio that E85 requires.

This! Unless you want to melt your engine lol. E85 for a j = no good.

Ok, just wasn't sure and didn't want to risk it. Thanks though!

Perhaps with larger injectors.





i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick

Jason, not even with bigger injectors. The PCM can not tune for close to the correct A/F ratio for E85.




PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

-MD- Enforcer wrote:Jason, not even with bigger injectors. The PCM can not tune for close to the correct A/F ratio for E85.

Well... Anytime you're in closed loop it should be able to get it right, might throw a lean code though. PE mode will be the @!#$ show. You need approximately 30% more fuel with e85, so in theory with your fuel trims maxed out (they happen to max at 30 it might be close. But PE mode would still be @!#$.


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-MD- Enforcer wrote:Jason, not even with bigger injectors. The PCM can not tune for close to the correct A/F ratio for E85.

K, standalone too then.

You mean there's nothing you can do for injector, even by swapping to something with say 30-35% more flow?





i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick

You could run 1000cc injectors, but the computer will not be able to run / command enough fuel. It just can not command the stoich AFR for E85 of 9.76:1.




PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

-MD- Enforcer wrote:You could run 1000cc injectors, but the computer will not be able to run / command enough fuel. It just can not command the stoich AFR for E85 of 9.76:1.

Why not? Its stil stoich, still lambda 1. At stoich the narrow band is still going to output the same thing it would output in there was gas in the car.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

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WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer

Yes, Stoich of Gas or e85 is 1 lambda.

So what your trying to say is your just going to use the standard gasoline AFR ratio and controls and convert it over to E85 AFR? So effectively when your AFR gauge reads 1 lambda or 14.7 for gas, it would actually be reading the 9.76:1 of the E85.

So if your shooting for a Lambda of 0.82, your gas would be 12:1 and E85 would be 7.97:1.

If I understand what your trying to say.....This allows you to effectively use existing gasoline AFR components or software to tune with E85, without buying special equipment. Simply use the same target AFRs on your gasoline gauge that you normally targeted for gasolline engine.

But with the added fuel offset.....either with larger injectors or a higher fuel pressure.

Or I'm I over simplifying it?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, March 15, 2011 6:45 AM

PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

Up until the added fuel offset. For that I'd just take all your ve tables and multiply them by 1.3 and then fine tune them. Alternatively you could fake it by changing the injector constant but thats bad because of how it changes other things.

Also remember, I'm going off of theory AND that ryan says that this wont work where as I see no issue with it so long as you are smarter than the computer.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer

Well the more I read, the more it seems doable in closed loop....



PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

Leafy wrote:Up until the added fuel offset. For that I'd just take all your ve tables and multiply them by 1.3 and then fine tune them. Alternatively you could fake it by changing the injector constant but thats bad because of how it changes other things.

Also remember, I'm going off of theory AND that ryan says that this wont work where as I see no issue with it so long as you are smarter than the computer.

he's trying to do this off the reflash. if it's eco reflash, you can't change anything.


this is the start of my signature: have you read the RULES yet?
my carDomain updated 6/11/10 Forged and Supercharged

Excuse me, but... Isn['t dual-mapping possible on the J-car management? I know it is on other GM models. Plus: You'll need a pump that can keep-up!

BTW: I've seen an article about how to get older (OBD-I) products to run it in Popular Hot-Rodding via asimple add-on to the "unused" factory inputs, and have heard that the later flex-fuel cars are able to compensate for the variations of the mix without a special sensor mounted in-line on the fuel system... So it can be done.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

A few things from that post. The newer flex fuels cars figure out the e mixture by achieving stoich in closed loop and calculating the actual stoich afr with the mass air flow and calculated fuel flow. Then go to a look up table.

Automotive parts catalogs claim that there is a flex fuel cavy eco but I believe they're actually referring to the one that can run on both gas and lng.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer

Yea...isn't there something. About the metal make up in pour heads also that isn't good with e85




"It's called reading! Top to bottom, left to right... a group of words together is called a sentence. Take Tylenol for any headaches... Midol for any cramps."

Compression Ignition Whore wrote:Yea...isn't there something. About the metal make up in pour heads also that isn't good with e85

Yes, our heads (and the cobalt ss heads) are made from aluminum, which if left stagnant in a pool of e85 would corrode like a mother @!#$. But when are you ever going to have a pool of e85 sitting on the head for a long period of time?


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer