I've been interested in building the bottom end on my sedan for the past year, but I can never save up enough for all the internals and engine work. So I've decided to go with the LE5 bottom end swap, but I have quite a few questions as I go.
I know I am looking for a 2006 Model LE5 from a solistice, I have found a ton near me with 10,000-50,000 miles on them for about $700-$1000. One option car-part gives me is w/ oil cooler or w/o oil cooler. I'd want without the oil cooler right? I know we swap the L61 oil pan due to needing the mounting holes for the engine bracket, so would it not matter what motor model I get?
I plan on running a turbo on this motor, so what HG would I be looking for to drop the compression down to a reasonable amount?
Do all of the stock connections work on this motor, wiring harness and connectors?
I plan to HP tune the motor once it is built and running, but what injectors should I be running on the motor. I have the Saab setup on my car right now, and plan on using that head still, but putting a Turbo Grind and Supertech Springs in.
I'll add more as I go, if I can even get to it.

If those are the best prices you can find, i'd hold out for better. I'm off to pick up a 2007 with 26k for 450 right after i post this, so unless it's urgent, i'd be patient and hold out for a bit cheaper.

The model without the oil cooler makes life easier. If you get one with the oil cooler, you either need to run a custom external cooler, or look at Newt's thread for how to bypass/eliminate it.

Using a stock L61 head, stock LE5 head gasket (1mm) and bottom end, your static comp ratio comes in around 11:1. Up to 3mm thickness are available from Cometic, and would drop you into high 8's or low 9s IIRC. A 1.5mm puts it in the low to mid 10s. There are theories out there on why a thicker head gasket can be a bad thing, but I don't know enough about that to fully explain confidently.

All stock connections will work, the same sensors are used. Of course you will need to extend the CKP sensor wire over to the trigger wheel.

I maxed 30 lb/hour injectors on an n/a LE61, so turbo'ed i'd plan on at least 42 lb/hr to have head room. I will say the saab turbo on an LE61 is going to spool ridiculously early and also max out early.

Best of luck with the build - looking forward to another one of these on the street!

Ok I will look around more for a motor then, I plan on grabbing one this winter so I can work on it before the car season again. Does it matter what model car the motor comes out of as long as it is a 2006-2007 model? I see it is offered in the Solstice, Cobalt, HHR, and G6.
For the Flywheel and clutch, does the stock L61 Bolt right on and the bell housing is the same, right?
Are you using the stock head bolts, or going with an ARP style setup?
Would I be better off with the Turbo grind, or like a Stage 2 or 3 cam setup?

Lets say I figure out a different turbo setup then... What would be a decent one to start with rather than the Saab setup. A t3/t4 with maybe a .67 trim or smaller? I'm looking for about 300+hp on the LE5 bottom end.

Hey if you do run the saab let me know how it runs. I was going to run it but I need to sale the kit because it's way to small lol... Good luck man.....

I don't think it matters what model, as you said, as long as it's 2006-2007. Yes, an L61/F23 flywheel and clutch can be used. I just sprung for ARP studs, but you could use OEM head bolts if you wish. As far as the cams, It depends how extreme you want to go. If you get stage 2/3 grind, i would spring for adjustable cam gears as well, so you can dial out some overlap. The turbo grind has lift specs similar to stock LE5 cams, so i would think they would perform as such, and not be a hindrance to ~300hp. As far as what turbo to choose for your app, I'll leave that to those with more experience sizing turbos. All i know is how the saab spools on a stock L61, and where it tops out. Based on that, one could only assume it spools earlier with more displacement (as long as the comp ratio is not crippled).

Find one without an oil cooler, it will make like MUCH easier....my buddy is a Heavy Duty Mechanic so he has access to an infinite supply of bolts, plugs, taps and fittings...without this it would of sucked that much more.

As an example the tap we used to tap the port with the sleeve in it (after we pulled the sleeve out) was worth $110 bucks if I would of had to go out and buy it.

Buy it without the oil cooler and you will be alot happier lol

Take a run through my build thread, I know its long but I covered off most of everything that needs to be done i think.

newt wrote:Find one without an oil cooler, it will make like MUCH easier....my buddy is a Heavy Duty Mechanic so he has access to an infinite supply of bolts, plugs, taps and fittings...without this it would of sucked that much more.

As an example the tap we used to tap the port with the sleeve in it (after we pulled the sleeve out) was worth $110 bucks if I would of had to go out and buy it.

Buy it without the oil cooler and you will be alot happier lol

Take a run through my build thread, I know its long but I covered off most of everything that needs to be done i think.

What size tap exactly? I have like 3 different npt tap sets and alot of singles Ive bought so dont think it would be a problem. If thats the only real issue Id much rather have the cooler option, tap it and run braided hose to a universal external cooler which decent ones can be had for under $100.

I want to do some kind of build or hybrid down the road but havnt realy read much on the le5, seems like a rather easy option since not much modding is needed and the motors can be had cheap. What hp are the bottom ends rated to and are there any differences between 06-07? Sorry guys I gotta find the original info thread or if someone could link it to me

Why not run the oil cooler. Seems like a nice option.



FU Tuning

Seems like more of a hassle with a Turbo car, I'm ok with not running an oil cooler.

SLOCAV wrote:Seems like more of a hassle with a Turbo car, I'm ok with not running an oil cooler.

Really, you should run it. I plan on buying one with the oil cooler because they're 400 bucks cheaper around here than ones without it. And just running a custom on. I bet I already have a tap that'll work. Else I know where I can borrow one or get one cheap enough.

Also thicker head gaskets scare me. For 2 reasons, 1 you increase the amount of force from pressure pushing out on the head gasket (since pressure X area = force), this is really bad during detonation when the cylinder pressure skyrockets. Also it messes up your quench area and would make less power than a thinner head gasket with dished pistons to make the same compression (but with the same or worse risk of detonation).


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, September 03, 2011 8:06 PM

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I'm not looking to invest my savings into the motor, just something a bit more reliable to hold boost. It might take me a while to save up for the entire build...
Would the stock cam gears work out or do I REALLY need the adjustable gears? The less money the better, but obviously I'd like the motor to hold.

If you run Comp's turbo grind, you shouldn't need the cam gears. If you were to run an n/a spec'd cam an a turbo car though, you want to take out some of the overlap. As i mentioned before, the lift specs on the turbo grind are similar to stock LE5 cams, so they are kind of the minimum for a decent build.

if all you want is the internals i will have a set of 2007 LE5 internals for sale here soon


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No I'm going to get the complete block, then just swap my head off onto the LE5 motor. Going to upgrade the head while it is off too. I hate taking so long on the project, but I'd rather just do the right turbo on the motor instead of tuning for the tiny saab turbo I have now.
Car probably wouldn't run the best on the GM reflash, and I wouldn't feel safe.

Run the saab for now while you learn how to tune. The saab will be relatively easy to tune but it'll run out of steam very fast on that engine, especially with a built head.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer

I won't be the one doing the tuning, I barely have enough time to work on the car while I'm in school. I plan on having someone do a dyno tune or a street tune using HP Tuners.

Some advice for whomever is doing the tuning: the trigger wheel simply will not be perfect. It will likely be slighly advanced or slighly retarded. Pulling a few degrees on the first flash is highly advisable with a free trigger wheel like this. Get the fuel dialed in, then add the timing back in if it will take it. On my first build, the wheel was significantly advanced, and the car knocked at like quarter throttle. After I pulled 5-10* it ran like a champ. I may not have gotten away with that on a boosted car.

I just found a 2006 LE5 from a G6, has 42,000 miles on it and no oil cooler option. They are asking only $300 dollars. Going to see if I can get a truck to bring it home, and probably snatch it up.
Sounds like a good price right?

And I should have a Trigger wheel on the way shortly.

If I slap a turbo on this motor, after changing out the HG and building the head...should I allow for a break in period?
Also, any idea on the HG I should run if I plan to be running about 15-20psi on a T3/T4 .57 Trim?

icemike89 wrote:

newt wrote:Find one without an oil cooler, it will make like MUCH easier....my buddy is a Heavy Duty Mechanic so he has access to an infinite supply of bolts, plugs, taps and fittings...without this it would of sucked that much more.

As an example the tap we used to tap the port with the sleeve in it (after we pulled the sleeve out) was worth $110 bucks if I would of had to go out and buy it.

Buy it without the oil cooler and you will be alot happier lol

Take a run through my build thread, I know its long but I covered off most of everything that needs to be done i think.

What size tap exactly? I have like 3 different npt tap sets and alot of singles Ive bought so dont think it would be a problem. If thats the only real issue Id much rather have the cooler option, tap it and run braided hose to a universal external cooler which decent ones can be had for under $100.

I want to do some kind of build or hybrid down the road but havnt realy read much on the le5, seems like a rather easy option since not much modding is needed and the motors can be had cheap. What hp are the bottom ends rated to and are there any differences between 06-07? Sorry guys I gotta find the original info thread or if someone could link it to me

The smaller hole is tapped 3/8 Pipe (with a #4 JIC(AN) fitting) and the larger hole (after pulling the steel sleeve out) is tapped #10 BSP and then used a bonded seal and a plug to seal it up.

#10 BSP is a big ass tap, could of used a different size, but that would of required drilling out that port more (IIRC its about 18-19mm) and we didn't have a drill with a chuck big enough to accept a bit to drill it out to say 20mm.


If you want to run an oil cooler, contact PJ, there is a company that makes a bolt on adaptor with AN fittings to run an external oil cooler. Bolts right where the factory cooler was, no modification nessacary, hook up the lines and go.

so wait you use the trigger wheel of the l61 crank correct? why would that advance the timing that bad? is it just because ot the different crank and stroke? im looking into doing this too on the saab settup till i park the car in november.... im also using the gm reflash modded by trifecta... i know no one has anything good to say about that but im stuck with what i got...

No you put an external trigger wheel on the le5 crank. If you dotn line it up just right it can advance or retard your spark timing.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
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is there a writeup about all this somewhere? this dohc timing is all new to me... where do you find a trigger wheel that works?

SLOCAV wrote:I just found a 2006 LE5 from a G6, has 42,000 miles on it and no oil cooler option. They are asking only $300 dollars. Going to see if I can get a truck to bring it home, and probably snatch it up.
Sounds like a good price right?

And I should have a Trigger wheel on the way shortly.

If I slap a turbo on this motor, after changing out the HG and building the head...should I allow for a break in period?
Also, any idea on the HG I should run if I plan to be running about 15-20psi on a T3/T4 .57 Trim?

Now you're talking! Great price on that one. I would allow a brief break in for any new valvetrain and turbo components - maybe 500 miles with cheap oil in it then change the oil to whatever you prefer to run.

I've been using this calculator to determine static cr on hybrid builds

http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html

Sounds like you'd want static compression in the mid to high nines on that high of a boost pressure, so you'd want significantly thicker HG - like in the 2.5-3mm range to drop it that much. But regardless, play with the calculator to figure out how thick it needs to be to put you where you want to be compression ratio wise.

Looks like I will get the motor at the end of the month...
Do you use the crank sensor from the LE5 or take the one out of my L61 and mount it?
also
If you can post up some headgaskets that would be a good choice for me, post them please. I'm new to the motor building thing, hence why I'm doing the hybrid build...

Should I look into venting the crankcase if I'm going to be pushing around 15-20psi out of the T3/T4? Or will drilling the oil cap work?

You use the L61 on, the LE5 uses hall effect, you need VR like stock.

Since you have the valve cover off I would add a bunch of vents to the top that go to a catch can like the pvc thread shows.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer