Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier - Performance Forum

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Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:15 AM
ok so i know there is probably already enough threads about this subject but im new to the site so cut me a break guys. anyway whats the biggest engine you can put into a 1997 cavalier?? i know there are people that go nuts and convert to RWD to drop in V8's but im looking for the biggest engine i can get and still keep the car FWD. what size engine can it be done with and what all mods would need to be made to the car??

Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:23 AM
Biggest I've seen is a Northstar v8





Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:35 AM
ok thanks..but from the look of the picture that car is no longer FWD and i dont want to spend the time or money to convert my car. i just want something thats an easy drop in without too many mods to make it fit
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:42 AM
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:44 AM
And I'm pretty sure the Northgate WAS FWD. Click on the picture to visit the build thread.



Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:48 AM
The Northstar was a FWD. The L67 has more potential though.


Whats up people?
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 11:27 AM
What about a 5.3L V8 set up from a 06 SS Monte Carlo? They're FWD...would there be room though?




2004 Cavalier Sedan
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:12 PM
No the 5.3 is bigger than the northstar and even the northstar required basically an entirely new frame from the fire wall forward. FWD sucks, honestly putting an engine that big in a fwd car is just retarded. It'll handle like asshole in a cup and wont be able to put any power down.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:38 PM
L61 with a crazy turbo build (because @!#$ cubic inches)
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 7:06 PM
Rocky Lyster wrote:ok thanks..but from the look of the picture that car is no longer FWD and i dont want to spend the time or money to convert my car. i just want something thats an easy drop in without too many mods to make it fit


dude, if you can't tell the car is still FWD from that picture then you have a long way to go before attempting a motor swap.





Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 7:12 PM
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:
Rocky Lyster wrote:ok thanks..but from the look of the picture that car is no longer FWD and i dont want to spend the time or money to convert my car. i just want something thats an easy drop in without too many mods to make it fit


dude, if you can't tell the car is still FWD from that picture then you have a long way to go before attempting a motor swap.


Lol winner





Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 8:08 PM
josiah keltner wrote:
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:
Rocky Lyster wrote:ok thanks..but from the look of the picture that car is no longer FWD and i dont want to spend the time or money to convert my car. i just want something thats an easy drop in without too many mods to make it fit


dude, if you can't tell the car is still FWD from that picture then you have a long way to go before attempting a motor swap.


Lol winner


god yes.

the motor is SIDEWAYS.



Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 9:47 PM
DSM engines are sideways... and they can still turn the back wheels




I have no signiture
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Saturday, October 01, 2011 11:21 PM
Leafy (Club Jeffie FEA man) wrote:No the 5.3 is bigger than the northstar and even the northstar required basically an entirely new frame from the fire wall forward. FWD sucks, honestly putting an engine that big in a fwd car is just retarded. It'll handle like asshole in a cup and wont be able to put any power down.

I totally agree it would be retarded for the same reasons, but that is what he is looking for lol.
Rocky Lyster , if it were me I'd go eco with turbo set up if you start from nothing, but it sounds like you're mostly going for a WOW factor with a bigger motor swap.


2004 Cavalier Sedan
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Sunday, October 02, 2011 7:13 AM
why would it not put any power down? I would think if anything the like rear wheel drive would promote wheel spin.
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Sunday, October 02, 2011 7:18 AM
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:
Rocky Lyster wrote:ok thanks..but from the look of the picture that car is no longer FWD and i dont want to spend the time or money to convert my car. i just want something thats an easy drop in without too many mods to make it fit


dude, if you can't tell the car is still FWD from that picture then you have a long way to go before attempting a motor swap.

Dude, I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that comment, you just beat me to it.

And to the OP, if you REALLY think that putting the biggest possible engine in a Cavalier is an easy drop in without too many mods, you should go back and play in the sandbox.



Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Sunday, October 02, 2011 8:07 AM
Whalesac wrote:DSM engines are sideways... and they can still turn the back wheels


lol yeah and they are AWD... he said RWD



Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Sunday, October 02, 2011 9:53 AM
Spencer wrote:why would it not put any power down? I would think if anything the like rear wheel drive would promote wheel spin.


Its called weight transfer.

-Z Yaaaa- wrote:
Whalesac wrote:DSM engines are sideways... and they can still turn the back wheels


lol yeah and they are AWD... he said RWD


The fastest ones are rwd because once they're making that much power the front wheels dont do much but slow em down.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Sunday, October 02, 2011 11:08 AM
wanarace2345 wrote:
Leafy (Club Jeffie FEA man) wrote:No the 5.3 is bigger than the northstar and even the northstar required basically an entirely new frame from the fire wall forward. FWD sucks, honestly putting an engine that big in a fwd car is just retarded. It'll handle like asshole in a cup and wont be able to put any power down.

I totally agree it would be retarded for the same reasons, but that is what he is looking for lol.
Rocky Lyster , if it were me I'd go ecoquad4/ld9 with turbo set up if you start from nothing, but it sounds like you're mostly going for a WOW factor with a bigger motor swap.
Fixed that for you, since you missed that he has a 97.. and wants bigger... and doesn't want to do any work (which would include the entire wiring swap, including the gauge cluster, to go eco)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, October 02, 2011 11:08 AM


Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Sunday, October 02, 2011 11:54 AM
Mystic02VA (GME Chat) wrote:
wanarace2345 wrote:
Leafy (Club Jeffie FEA man) wrote:No the 5.3 is bigger than the northstar and even the northstar required basically an entirely new frame from the fire wall forward. FWD sucks, honestly putting an engine that big in a fwd car is just retarded. It'll handle like asshole in a cup and wont be able to put any power down.

I totally agree it would be retarded for the same reasons, but that is what he is looking for lol.
Rocky Lyster , if it were me I'd go ecoquad4/ld9 with turbo set up if you start from nothing, but it sounds like you're mostly going for a WOW factor with a bigger motor swap.
Fixed that for you, since you missed that he has a 97.. and wants bigger... and doesn't want to do any work (which would include the entire wiring swap, including the gauge cluster, to go eco)

Yeah but he would have to do that stuff anyway if he wanted to swap for a V6 or V8. That's why I said if he was gona start with nothing or start over (not use the LD9) then I'd go eco instead of V6 or V8 FWD set up. That was just my opinion on what I would do. I realize he doesn't want to do a lot of work, but if he really wants to do a build or a swap, then I'm sure you know as well as I do...he's gona have to get his hands dirty and prob bust some knuckles, etc. But I see what you're saying...turbo the LD9 he's prob already got...it's a 97 so he could already use HPT, too.


2004 Cavalier Sedan
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:01 PM
he has an LN2... 2.2 OHV push rod [[insert derogatory comment about it having less than 100 horsepower to the wheels in stock form]] motor...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:02 PM



Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:09 PM
You could go with a 3X00 v6. It will bolt right in with the right mounts, need a custom bracket for the dog bone mount, which somebody in the v6 swap sticky sells. Then it's a matter of wiring. I don't see why he would have to switch the cluster and all that to do a v6 swap, like wanarace said, I didn't swap mine.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:38 PM
Mystic02VA (GME Chat) wrote:he has an LN2... 2.2 OHV push rod [[insert derogatory comment about it having less than 100 horsepower to the wheels in stock form]] motor...

ooops...didn't realize that.

Oedwards, yeah I couldn't remember exactly what the v6 swap would require, so that's why I said "all that stuff''. Which I'm sure would be true if he did want to do some sort of V8 swap (also why I threw in the ''all that stuff'')

I'm in Korea, and I've been working for the past 10 hrs which is grave yard shift over in this time zone. Maybe I'll get some sleep before I post anymore today lol.


2004 Cavalier Sedan
Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:43 PM
Leafy (Club Jeffie FEA man) wrote:No the 5.3 is bigger than the northstar and even the northstar required basically an entirely new frame from the fire wall forward. FWD sucks, honestly putting an engine that big in a fwd car is just retarded. It'll handle like asshole in a cup and wont be able to put any power down.

The Northstar is physically a larger and heavier of an engine than the 5.3L LS4. On the LS4, it is uses a OHV while the Northstar is DOHC, in other words, the NS uses two huge/wide/ top heavier banks.
The "Small Block" are realitvely small in size for being a V8. This LS4 is under that same architecture, just designed for FWD use.
Personally, if I was swaping motors with more cylinders... I'd take the LS4 than those boat anchors OHV V6s--ie... 3.1/3.4L.

Here is what GM said on it.
NEW GEN IV 5.3L TURNS V-8 PERFORMANCE ON ITS SIDE
General Motors’ new Gen IV 5.3L V-8 (LS4) engine debuts in the 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP, making it the first V-8 offered in a Grand Prix since 1987. It also marks the first time since the small-block was introduced 50 years ago that it has been offered in a front-wheel-drive car.

Engineered specifically for front-drive layouts, the 5.3L V-8 is estimated to produce 303 horsepower and 323 lb.-ft. of torque. It incorporates Displacement On Demand technology (DOD), which helps the vehicle realize fuel economy gains of up to 12 percent per the EPA federal fuel economy test procedures. It does this by seamlessly alternating between eight- and four-cylinder operation.

When matched with the inherent smoothness and torque of the V-8 configuration, the 5.3L V-8 delivers strong performance – 90 percent of torque is available between 1500 rpm and 5200 rpm – and surprising economy. It’s a combination most competitors’ V-6 offerings can’t match.

“Over 50 years, the small-block V-8 has proven itself more adaptable than anyone could have imagined,” said Dave Muscaro, assistant chief engineer of small-block V-8 for passenger cars. “The small-block family has a tradition dating back to 1955 in which an excellent design makes possible the additions of new technology. The Displacement On Demand capable 5.3L V-8 is a fine example of that tradition”

Family ties
The all-aluminum 5.3L V-8 is the third displacement offering of the Gen IV small-block, which was introduced in the 2005 Chevrolet SSR, GTO and Corvette, as well as several 2005 GM SUVs. The 5.3L V-8 shares a common architecture with these other versions, including a deep-skirt block, six-bolt cross-bolted main bearing caps, and structural oil pan, but is modified to accommodate the “east-west” mounting position of the Grand Prix’s front-wheel-drive chassis.

To fit the “sideways” positioning in the Grand Prix, several changes were made to shorten the engine’s overall length. The crankshaft was shortened by 13 mm – 3 mm at the rear and 10 mm at the front – and the entire accessory drive system was designed to reduce space. The water pump and all other accessories, including the power steering pump, are driven on a single-belt drive system – the longest drive system in a GM vehicle.

Engineers devised an elongated water pump manifold, which features a remote-mounted pump that feeds the stock Gen IV coolant passages via the unique manifold. The design allowed the drive system to be mounted closer to the engine block. Because of the 5.3L V-8’s relatively low inertia, which can be up to 50 percent less at the crankshaft damper than a 6.0L V-8, a hydraulic belt tensioner was used instead of a conventional rotary tensioner.

Unique position
The sideways position of the 5.3L V-8 required revisions to the lubrication system. Engineers tested 5.3L V-8 equipped test vehicles on racetracks, subjecting them to high-load turns that guided the development of special oil pan baffles that ensure lubrication during cornering. In addition, because Gen IV engines don’t have a block-mounted oil filter – it’s located on the oil pan – the 5.3L V-8’s filter offers easy access.

The GM Oil Life System oil-change indicator system is standard, which can reduce the frequency of oil changes during the engine’s operating life. With the system, the engine control module (ECM) records cumulative data on a number of variables, including engine rpm, temperature, load or rpm variance and length of operation at any given load and temperature. Using this information, the system calculates oil degradation and recommends an oil change when the oil is near the end of its useful life – in other words, when an oil change is actually needed.

Other 5.3L V-8 features include:
•Electronic throttle control integrated with a new E40 engine controller
•Lightweight, three-piece friction-welded composite intake manifold with throttle located at rear (driver’s side) of engine
•Cylinder heads derived from the 6.0L V-8 LS2 engine
•10.0:1 compression ratio
•Unique camshaft designed to accommodate DOD technology
•PCV valve replaced with maintenance-free fixed orifice

Because of the front-drive layout, the 5.3L V-8’s exhaust manifold routing includes two manifolds joined by a single crossover pipe, which connect to a single underbody catalytic converter. The crossover pipe allows the use of a single oxygen sensor, unlike north/south V-8 applications that have two oxygen sensors.

Displacement On Demand technology
GM’s Displacement on Demand technology debuted in 2005 GM extended midsize SUVs equipped with the Vortec 5.3L V-8 (LH6) engine. With the 5.3L V-8 (LS4), DOD technology enables fuel economy gains of up to 12 percent in certain driving conditions by reducing the number of cylinders engaged in the combustion process. A sophisticated, next-generation E40 engine controller determines when to deactivate cylinders, allowing the engine to maintain vehicle speed in lighter-load conditions such as highway cruising. When the cylinders are deactivated, the engine effectively operates as a V-4, with alternate cylinders on each cylinder bank disabled. The engine returns to V-8 mode the instant the controller determines the vehicle speed or load requires additional power. The process is seamless and virtually imperceptible.

“There’s nothing like the satisfying feel of a V-8 engine and the 5.3L V-8 provides a level of performance rarely available in competitors’ vehicles,” said Muscaro. “But when all eight cylinders aren’t required to maintain performance, DOD technology effectively turns the engine into a more efficient V-4.”

The key to DOD’s efficiency and virtually imperceptible operation is a set of special two-stage hydraulic valve lifters, which allows the lifters of deactivated cylinders to operate without actuating the valves. These lifters, used only on the cylinders which are deactivated, have inner and outer bodies which normally operate as a single unit. When the engine controller determines cylinder deactivation conditions are optimal, it activates solenoids in the engine lifter valley which direct high-pressure oil to the switching lifters. This oil pressure activates a release pin inside the lifter which allows the outer body of the lifter to move independently of the inner body. With the pin is released, the outer lifter body moves in conjunction with camshaft actuation, but the inner body does not move, thus holding the pushrod in place. This prevents the pushrod from actuating the valve, thereby halting the combustion process. Because the vibration and acoustic dynamics of the V-8 and V-4 modes are different, the exhaust system of DOD-equipped vehicles is tuned to compensate for the changes.




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Re: Biggest Engine for a 1997 Cavalier
Sunday, October 02, 2011 2:06 PM
The 3800 is the boat anchor, being mostly cast iron IIRC.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs
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