Ok I have a 99 sunfire base with the 2200 LN2 with a crashbox. I've been "hotroding" this car in different aspect than the normal performance build. I have modded this sunfire to get just over 60 mpg while cruising at 70 mph without any serious mods to the motor. I've only done a tri-Y header, high flow cat and one of those cheap eBay cat back exhausts and a cheap eBay intake and some other sneaky tweaks. Well this car has 275k miles on it and my timing chain is letting up and I'm getting a little lower cylinder pressure than I'd like so I'm going to go ahead and pull the motor and rebuild it and while its apart I wanted to step up the low to mid range power. I wanted to bump up the compression to at least 10:1, my understanding is that my motor has the heart shape chambers and have a deeper dish than the 97 and older motors so I was wondering if the 97 pistons would work properly with my head. Also I found a guy who will make me a nice torque cam. Also I've heard of people using the LS rocker arms in the circle track world so I wondering how much work would go into doing that. And any other tips to make this motor make more low end torque. Again I'm not trying to make this car fast I have other toys for that hahaha. But this car is fun to throw it in the faces of all those Prius drivers since my car cost much less than theirs and gets better mileage hahaha. So any other tips on this motor would be greatly appreciated


Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

To get that kind of MPG you're talking about making less than 10hp at cruise. I'm pretty sure it takes more than 10hp to cut the wind alone, not considering other factors. You're not making that kind of MPG, sorry.





i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick

So you're telling me that was imagining things when I drove from San Antonio Texas to Fairfield California (about 1700 miles) and only had to stop for gas once?


Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

Motorizedmadness wrote:So you're telling me that was imagining things when I drove from San Antonio Texas to Fairfield California (about 1700 miles) and only had to stop for gas once?

he's saying the math doesnt add up.


no to your question. using a 2200 top end and 97- pistons nets around a 7.5:1 CR. youre going the wrong way. you want to use 98+ pistons and a 97- head.



JBO Stickers! Get yours today!

Thanks for the info about the piston and head combo I've been looking all over the Internet for combustion chamber size and piston dish volume and have only found that in 98 they went to a heart shape chamber. This is my first 2200 build, I've built several other motors ranging from a boosted CB750 to an IHRA legal doorslammer. I did this as a gas mileage build since I travel all over the country with my job. And I didn't say the car itself was stock I just said the internals of the motor was. I've done several things to this car to get that kind of mileage.


Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

Motorizedmadness wrote:So you're telling me that was imagining things when I drove from San Antonio Texas to Fairfield California (about 1700 miles) and only had to stop for gas once?

I didn't say you're imagining it, I said that you're lying about it. Big difference.





i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick

Don't be jealous. Not everyone can do what I do it's ok


Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

Also if you knew what you were talking about you'd know that a standard 1/2 ton pick up only takes 17 horsepower to maintain 70 mph and this car much more aerodynamic than a truck especially after what I did to it


Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

So lets see some pics of this amazing mileage machine........

Maybe you'll inspire some other Hypermilers on the org...

Let me get back to the hotel tonight where my laptop is and I'll post some on here. Unless I can do it on my phone.
But a written description of the car is as follows
Lowered 2" front 1.9" rear
Moon dishes on the wheels
185/75/14 tires inflated to 50psi
Mostly blocked off grille
Vortex generators
Big front air dam
Gsxr side mirrors
Covered rear wheel wells
Full belly pan from the front bumper to the rear axle
Hydrogen generator that's capable of producing 5 liter per minute of HHO turned down to making about 3 lpm
Spliced in copper tubing into the pressure side of the fuel line wrapped around the cat making the the fuel temp 375* within 8 minutes
Mixed in 3 ounces of acetone and 1.5 ounces of xylene per 10 gallons of gas
Tuned the computer to run 17.5:1 air fuel ratio at cruise around 14:1 while accelerating
Removed windshield wipers (only durning good weather)
And the biggest thing is yes hypermiling I don't drive it like my monza hahaha


Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

First off,

I am not sure whether this is a joke or not.

Fattening up the AFR at cruise which i imagine is most of the time, is ummmm.... saving you fuel economy? If you were going to do anything Lean would be the way to go with widebands or TC controllers, which is what most of the OEM companies are doing....

Interesting to see pictures. but still not sold.

Quote:

Mixed in 3 ounces of acetone and 1.5 ounces of xylene per 10 gallons of gas

Why waste the money? That's been proven over and over again not to work.
Oh, and Vortex Generators? HAHA, wtf!?

Quote:


Also if you knew what you were talking about you'd know that a standard 1/2 ton pick up only takes 17 horsepower to maintain 70 mph and this car much more aerodynamic than a truck especially after what I did to it

Considering that number is accurate, which it's not. That would be in absolutely perfect conditions. Now you say you're "hypermiling". So you have to drive a few feet behind a tractor trailer to achieve this. There's no way in hell you're maintaining 70 doing that man.

Norwood - not necessarily. If he's running a 10% ethanol blend like most gas stations sell, he'll be looking for a little fatter AFR anyways.





i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick

Well the acetone xylene works in my car you have to play with the mix ratio to get it to work right.
Also if don't what something is then you can't say they don't work, if vortex generators didn't work then you wouldn't see them on semi's, aircraft, or Mitsubishi evo (when equipped with the factory wing) it creates vortices in the air allowing the air to follow the vehicle reducing the low pressure area behind the car which is where most of your aerodynamic drag comes from. I'm here to find real information about these engines not to give several lessons to one person who thinks they know everything


Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

Finally got around to getting a pic on here

More to come


Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

I'm scared. Pontiac meets salt flats meets Honda Insight...

Really you want the engine to be the most efficient it can be. Normally that would also produce more power. I would get a header, and a full aluminum exhaust to help reduce weight, make more power, and be more efficient. I would assume 2.25" piping would be more than enough flow. I would also do lightweight pulleys to help reduce your rotational mass on the motor.

Do you have belly pans / covers on the car to help reduce drag?

I would like to see some more pics if you have any.




PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

I do have a tri-Y header on it, tri-Y's are better for more mid range power where a 4 to 1 is good for high end. Also I do have one of those Chinese mandrel bent cat backs on the car with a high flow cat.
Yes the belly pan and the blocked off grille and rear wheel wells reduce drag. And actually I have two set of grille block offs a summer one that has a bigger opening for the higher ambient temp and a winter set that's almost completely blocked off.
Cruising at 70 mph on flat highway I'm only using about 11% throttle to maintain my speed stock was about 27%, I have an innovative motorsports obd read/tuner and its hooked up to a laptop mounted in the car. I have showing throttle position, AF ratio, air inlet temp, spark advance, map.
I'll try to get some pics up on here. It's kinda hard to take more right now because its dark when I get out of work


Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

And actually where can I get some under drive pulleys for this engine?


Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

That looks terrible, I'm still skeptical and I didn't see any cooling mods on that list...

Yeah 4-2-1 have much better lower rpm torque numbers than 4-1s do.

How are you seeing you a/r unless you have a wideband? Since the stock O2 sensor is a narrowband.

Would like to see belly pan pics.

Summit racing has an under driven crank pulley made by asp. It is for the s10 2.2, but will work on your motor.




PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

Well I'm not going for the pretties car award with this build its strictly for mileage.
I do have a wideband in the car when I got the innovative motorsports reader/tuner I bought it with the wideband set up. It's great thing to have it also works with smart phones and the app is free. Without the wideband it's $150 and with the wideband it's about $275 and comes with all the wiring and computer software to use a laptop. It also reads and deletes trouble codes. It works with anything OBD2, the module just plugs in and just tuck somewhere out of the way I've used on several different cars just to read the trouble codes.
I'll try to get a belly pan pic but since I'm not at home where my drive on lift is no promises on how good the pic will be


Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

As for cooling the belly pan prevent any air that does go thru the grille from going under the radiator but also as insurance I added redline water wetter to the coolant, I've used that with my radical street motors with great results. It keeps my 600 LC2 (grand national) motor in my monza cool with a small aluminum radiator, a decent electric fan, and a stock water pump and that's in south Texas heat where the summers are rarely under 100 degrees


Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

Something funny I had to do



Thinking so far out of the box that I'm lost hahaha

Motorizedmadness wrote:Tuned the computer to run 17.5:1 air fuel ratio at cruise around 14:1 while accelerating

jason norwood wrote:Fattening up the AFR at cruise which i imagine is most of the time, is ummmm.... saving you fuel economy? If you were going to do anything Lean would be the way to go with widebands or TC controllers, which is what most of the OEM companies are doing....

Wait... I was always under the impression that it went "air:fuel" and thus the higher the first number, the leaner the mix is. My car cruises at 14.7:1 and 12.2:1 at WOT (unless under my cam's power band, and then its 10:1). Isn't 14.7:1 ideal stoich?

So how is this fattened up?? Looks lean to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, December 04, 2012 7:27 AM

Kyle you are correct.

17.5:1 at cruise is pretty damn lean.

Also, with a stock J-body PCM how are you commanding 17.5:1 AFR?






PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO