I was searching and looking for hours but couldn't find a post with the details I was looking for. I want to put my 97 Z24 in the garage over the summer and pull the block out. Not looking for to much I was thinking like 13sec 1/4 cause I would still like to drive it as a back up if/when need/desired.
I was looking at the whole lightweight pulleys and going to 10.5-1 compression, I got a guy that will forge a set of cams for me(so far the most expensive part cause 2, starting to have a little hate for DOHC lol). I'm looking at all throttle no bottle system. Thank you all for your future advice and I wont complain about it being better than what I stated above. Best advice for all motor back up car potential.
Z doesn't mean last, it just lapped A.
If you want 13s. Go turbo. A well put together kit will be a lot more reliable than a all motor LD9....any day of the week. Unless you have deep pockets all motor and 13s is not going to happen...
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Well actually money isn't much of an issue. Aside from attaining the parts my costs will be minimal. I know it sounds odd to say but I had to give up the 79 berlinetta camaro to get this car. I was without a daily driver, very sad sob story I would rather not talk about it beyond that. Basically this car will be its mirror, done it will have a custom cut body kit to match the lost love lol. It'll look weird I'm told but you can all see why I want this to be done. I am considering some form of FAI, but only if it's longevity is more likely.
Z doesn't mean last, it just lapped A.
this sounds like a nightmare
99 cavy 2200 AUTO 14.884 @ 93.88 mph w/ a 1.920 60ft.
Civics are like tampons every pussy has one!
98 Neon R/T 15.2 @ 91mph W/a 2.4 60ft I HAVE i,h,e
see what next yr brings...
-MD- Enforcer wrote:If you want 13s. Go turbo. A well put together kit will be a lot more reliable than a all motor LD9....any day of the week. Unless you have deep pockets all motor and 13s is not going to happen...
oh man i hate to do it but i have to disagree. first off on the reliability part.... stock LD9's have a hard enough time staying together even without the added stress of boost. sure there are a handful of LD9's that have stood the test of time. but for the most part, they die often. lol its just a fact. and secondly i dont know how anybody can claim a well built all motor LD9 would not be reliable. to my knowledge there are but three documented builds that hit 13's na. karo (his motor never blew), paul (his 13 second motor never blew), and aj burson, which i dont know if his did or not. i dont think so, though. so the ratio of built reliable 13 second LD9's that have blown up to the ones that have stayed together bodes much better on the side of reliable.
in my book a "well put together" turbo kit is going to run just as much as building a 13 second capable n/a LD9.. if not more, actually. Depending on what you can find in your local junkyard in terms of LG0 parts a 13 second capable LD9 build could really only need forged high compression pistons and some port work to the head to "get there" so-to-speak. i firmly believe that a SBE LD9 is capable of 13's with a 2.3 oil pump swap and a thinner head gasket to bump up the compression some. i doubt anybody will ever prove that possible though, unfortunately.
we wont get into suspension components and tire setups because quite frankly to run 13's in a j-body you need this stuff on lock down anyway so the debate that one posibly doesnt need the setup is moot.
where is this "unless you have deep pockets" stuff come from for an na LD9? far as i know it'd take a set of $600 dollar pistons, a ported head, a good tune, and a bunch of bolt ons in a 2500 pound with driver car to get there. its actually pretty damn easy if you sit down and iron out all the details. its not rocket science. the LD9 loves high compression. the LD9 loves air flow mods.
zwolf guy - if you wanna do custom cams thats up to you but honestly, to run 13s, they are un-needed. a set of HO LG0 cams is all you need to get there. they are a proven mod. have been time and time again, over and over again. they work well with a turbo, they work well with N/A.
recipe for 13s N/A =
high compression pistons (final SCR around 10.5:1 is all that is needed)
2.3 oil pump swap
ported head. the exhaust side needs opened up at least. you can do this yourself if you want to save money.
header. bills/stans 4-2-1 or a ron siebenick 4-1, or hell i bet even a pacesetter would do the trick
3" exhaust. either side exit or all the way to the back. either setup with a good flowing muffler or none at all.
HO cams, valve springs/retainers, lifters
HO intake manifold/tb and an intake of some type with a good flowing air filter or veloscity stack.
TUNED ECU.
thats it. you dont need to waste money on stainless valves or bronze guides. you dont need engine mounts. you dont need coil swap conversions. you dont need gimmicks and other bs.
get the air in and out. allow the computer to work for you, not against you, and get your ass out there and beat the @!#$ piss out of it night after night. impress all the haters. done, done, and done.
/spent
It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Better bearings and some light work to the oil galleys on the crank never hurt these motors either.
"In Oldskool we trust"
im so confident that an LD9 is easier than turboing to run 13's i believe a completely bone stock un-opened LD9 could do it.
it'd take a hell of a lot of weight reduction, great traction, an epic tune, and the best air quality in my area but i believe it could be done.
It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
I knew brad was gonna chime in on this lol
I would still add motor mounts and some good tires to get u there. the tune is ur number one focus. high compression is key.
GMR has got nothing on this
I agree somewhat about what Brad said, and yes my motor running strong minus a leak, and build Brad listed is "close enough" but us guys running 13's n/a are running 11:1 compression, 3 inch exhaust is NOT needed (actually over kill), I am not using the ho intake manifold....... all 3 of us are running different intake manifolds that are 13's, all running different pistons (same relative compression), HO cam setup works great, head work will be needed, strong rods, and I think all 3 of us took weight off our cranks, and I have ran 2.3 and 2.4 oiling systems. Header depends on your outcome you are building, I am running 4-1, I think Paul was 4-2-1, and I think Karo was 4-2-1 if I remember correctly, I am working on another build though trying to hit 12's n/a, and weight of the car plays effect, I think mine is the heaviest of the 3, mounts for at LEAST engine helps, a good clutch, which I believe all 3 of us are running different......and YES guys Im still around lol
"As I lay rubber down the street, I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride." -Amen
Brad you and I both know we have spent a ton of money on our cavaliers...
Money in my opinion is at least a concern, or you wouldn't be building a cavalier. In my honest opinion....unless you are crazy like Brad, AJ, Kyle, and I you can go faster for a lot cheaper.
In my opinion this is what is needed to go 13s in a full interior j-body...reliably.
-Engine
HO or larger cams, which require either boring and clearing the stock cam towers, or using 2.3 cam towers or lose the power steering. Also will need HO or better valve springs and lifters.
A ported head would be ideal, but not 100% necessary.
Forged rods and high comp pistons
Pulleys would also help
2.3 oil pump swap
Header, high flow cat, and a 2.5"-3.0" exhaust. Ron Siebenick header would be the best choice!
Stock intake manifold or a HO intake manifold
Motor mounts
56mm to 60mm would be enough.
A GOOD TUNE<---The most important step. This could be the difference between a 14 and a 13 second car.
-Trans
A good, at least stage 2 or higher clutch.
I like light weight flywheel, some like stock.
No need for axles
-Suspension
I personally would like to keep the lower a-arms parallel to slightly /-----. 1.25-1.5" drop is perfect for this in my opinion.
Good adjustable struts or coil overs. AGX's are the cheapest ones for this. Koni yellows would be better. Coil overs I would go with tein or BC.
My best results has been a full hard rears, and medium hard to soft fronts. Even though it wasteful I like the front to raise a little to help keep traction.
Light weight rim / smaller rims. I like 14s and big meats.
Drag radials would help a ton-possible on good street tires.
No need to upgrade brakes in my honest opinion. A good rotor and pad should be enough.
I like having poly front bushings, but it is not 100% required.
In my opinion $7,500-10,000 to do it right and reliably.
$4,000-7,500 to do it with a lot of used parts.
Under $4,000 if you get damn good deals on everything.
Average built LD9s cost $3,000-4,000. That is just the motor. Being the cheap bastards most of us are most keep towards the lower end.
Anything to make the car lighter will help in your goal, and you can remove parts "needed".
@!#$ AUTO CORRECT IN THE ASS!
Edited 8 time(s). Last edited Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:39 AM
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
eh... 13s all motor is pretty easy..... 12s... now theres the challenge...
whatchu talkn boot willis? i aint spent a dime on a cavalier. aint nobody got time fo dat!
It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Mystic02VA (GME Chat) wrote:eh... 13s all motor is pretty easy..... 12s... now there's the challenge...
I would say 14s are easy, 13s take some seat time and money.
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:whatchu talkn boot willis? i aint spent a dime on a cavalier. aint nobody got time fo dat!
Brad. lol
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
naw 13s was easy, its 12s Im going to struggle to get lol......maybe this year....maybe......***cross fingers****
"As I lay rubber down the street, I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride." -Amen
Wow, thank you all very much. This is exactly what I was hoping for. Lots of advice, experienced answers, proven builds and of course "@!#$ AUTO CORRECT IN THE ASS!".
My plan is to have this done by my birthday, sooner if possible. So that's August 15th, kinda getting that feeling you get when you think the guy sitting with you at the red light, cept this time can't feel dumb about 13's even if he doesn't take off with me lol. I am working on air intake research. Get board with a 110-weld and you make prototypes, now I just need that 220-wire fed. Again guys thank you and always throw it up on the forum if your not sure.
Z doesn't mean last, it just lapped A.
nothing needed for research we all have proven intakes lol
"As I lay rubber down the street, I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride." -Amen
Turbo is cheaper and easier for the times. You can bot on a turbo kit tune it and be 13's
FU Tuning
yea if you use nothing but junkyard parts.
It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:yea if you use nothing but junkyard parts.
What junkyard parts will build a turbo kit for a ld9?
FU Tuning
old gst/x turbo and interfooler, various piping etc
buy a brand new QUALITY turbo and QUALITY components and ur up around $2000. i could build a 13 second LD9 for 2000 or less and be using mostly new parts. if you would actually have read this thread AND my detailed post, you would see why i think so.
turbo=
turbo- 800-1200
BOV - 150-200
WG-150-200
turbo mani - 200-350
IC - 100-300
piping - 50-200
DP - 50-150
2 bar - 50-100
various couplers/hoses/clamps/hardware - 50-100
N/A=
ho cams - 200
ho springs/retainers - 75
35mm lifters - 250
ported head - 400
pistons - 500
2.3 pump swap - 300 (doing swap myself with new components)
header/side exit exhaust - 350
ho intake/tb - 75
and mind you thats all brand new parts with everything expensive as sin. if you found all the 2.3 components in a junk yard it'd be loads cheaper. the same could be said about the turbo etc. so either way you could do it cheap or expensive but neither way is any better than the other. with the n/a build you've got a pretty stout bottom end that will take abuse. with the turbo setup you'd have everything bone stock and at risk of issue.
It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Brad, your very angry lately bud.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
its the damn winter. cabin fever?
It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Just putting it out there, but my Borg Warner S200 that's good for 400whp was $650ish with an additional cast SS Bullseye turbine housing. Yes it is a rebuilt turbo, but BW turbos are the most solid units on the market.
There's no way around it Brad, you just gotta face facts, you can go further with boost for less money.
That being sad, it IS quite the feeling to see an NA LD9 rape a boosted one........
take the LD9 .. throw it out....put in a quad4 ..........done
lol not quite... Throw in an 3.8 s/c done with a smaller pulley done!
99 cavy 2200 AUTO 14.884 @ 93.88 mph w/ a 1.920 60ft.
Civics are like tampons every pussy has one!
98 Neon R/T 15.2 @ 91mph W/a 2.4 60ft I HAVE i,h,e
see what next yr brings...
