Haven't posted in a while guys but some of you may remember that I was looking for a 84-87 Sunbird Turbo Hatch. I've found one that I'm going to look at tomorrow and I was looking to get some opinion on it. Here is the link:

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-1985-Pontiac-Sunbird-turbo-Hatchback-WINTER-BEATER-W0QQAdIdZ435687529

I also found a ling on a V6Z24 forum from the previous time it sold about 3 years ago:

http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/wts-1985-pontiac-sunbird-turbo-hatchback-t110274.html

My plan would be to buy the car now and store it for 3 to 4 years in a friends barn. I have young kids and realistically I know I won't have time to really get at it until them. The reason I'm considering buying now as opposed to then is that I really think the chance of another one coming up for sale are slim. Especially since this one is so close to home (30 miles). I read an unofficial number on a forum posting that there were 585 Sunbird S/E Turbo Hatches produced in 1985. If that is the case there must only be a fraction of them on the road now. So here are the Pros and Cons as I see them:

Pros:
Car is currently being driven, not sitting
Safety in the last 3 years
Owner and Previous owner have done some work on the car
Custom Paint Job?

Cons:
Turbo is not working (it was working in previous ads so I will be asking about this)
Possible Frame Rot
Will it survive sitting for a few years?

Would love to hear what you guys have to say. I will update tomorrow.

Wonderful example to save Ogie 33!! :-) I agree it is a great time for you to jump in - not many of these around and one can only be so choosy....Even if you only managed to keep it inside for a few years and plans change, in the end you'd be saving a rare find to be rebuilt down the road. Pontiac is no longer in business and the uniqueness of this example will only grow as the years go by.

I noticed you mentioned you have children, this would make a wonderful project to share rebuilding with your family - and make some wonderful memories together. I have a 5 yr. old grandson that likes to go for rides in the coupe already.

Be aware that some parts for these are starting to get difficult to come across, this is another good reason to start now while there still are parts to be had. You can enjoy acquiring a few parts now while parts are available. I have yet to find a heater core for my '84 J2000 Sunbird w/ A/C. Paul94Z28 has been enjoying his own difficulties sourcing heater hoses and power steering lines too. So parts are only going to get harder to come bay as more donors are crushed and floated to China. Unless you are a die hard original condition type of fellow, you can find substitutes if need be. I'm sure you know we have some wonderful folks on here that are very knowledgeable and helpful, so your journey isn't all alone.

Big advantages is ODB 1 - which means far, far fewer CEL's and simpler diagnostics. These cars are easy to work on and fun to repair and rebuild compared to 10 and 20 year old electronic wonders.

My 2 cents worth would be to give the floorpan a major inspection. Many of our friends here on J-Body have had to say goodbye to their rides have been because of bottom sheetmetal just too far gone to work with. I would say from observations here that the Turbo should be fairly easy to source and repair. Paul94Z28 has lots of experience in this dept. and can help you out far more than I.
Good Luck!! :-)




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Thanks Orlen!

I will definitely give the floor pans a good look. I think my main concern at this point is that I buy it and it ends up being beyond repair due to that exact type of thing.

Also, good to hear that the Turbo and related parts can still be found, and from what I've read here, be improved upon somewhat in their reliability.

Here's the deal: If its that rare, and that cheap, buy it. Just don't convince yourself later to get rid of it. Did that with my '92 Z24, and regretted it ever since.


2010 Honda Fit LX

Concur w/ Orlen- The 'winter beater' and Ontario location worries me for floor rust. Also, putting it away for 3+ years in a barn prior to working on it might compound existing rot issues.

I had the exact same car from '87 to '91- int and ext colors, sunroof, wiper. The' V' black paint on the hood was not factory of course. Wonder what happened to mine...?



(Quoting a past member)-"Never underestimate a First Gen"

Hey John,

I was hoping you'd chime in. We talked quite a bit a couple of years back when I first started looking. I also used to own an 85 Hatch.

It's funny that you mentioned the color. In the old ad (V6Z24) the car looks to be the bright red like yours (I've seen your model in a previous post). However, in the latest ad the car looks more like the dark red (maroon color) that I used to own. So I'm interested to see tomorrow which it is.

I feel like the car needs to be saved and that the opportunity will probably not present itself again. But I have to admit it's not the best time. I think I have to look at is a $500 or so gamble.

....and then I remember my old one with the exhaust manifold that I blew a chunk out of, the blown turbo, blown head gasket...what is this coolant doing in the oil?

Oh Yeah Ogie 33, I see you've been 'round the track 'n back a time or 2.

Those ole Brazil engines are plenty finicky - I guess it all part of the mystique.

Ya can always slip in a 3800 Supercharged ....or as I told Paul earlier today , one of those 302hp Direct Injection V-6's out of the new Impalas. Now that ought to give one a good kick in the britches...LoL.

I know ...it's all about when we are going to win that lottery!!



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Simply Put....... BUY IT! Store it in the barn and keep looking for another one. If another one shows up maybe it will be for parts or this one will be for parts. Either way you can make one out of two and still have the rare parts that you might need for years to come..

Buy it.

I will be happy to consult and pass along what I have learned when you are ready. Floors are a pain but 2nd gen stuff welds in. Take your time as you get it. I have 4 kids and projects go much slower than they used to.

Hatches were rarer when they were new, now you never see them.

I would offer $500 cash if it starts and runs and go from there if the floors are pretty good. Being an ON car, chances are it was undercoated - may be a blessing or a curse.

Hey Ogie,

Yeah, my '85 was diagnosed w/ a leaking turbo at the dealership...I think I was scammed.. But that was long ago.

On the reds...since I owned both the Sunbird amd the Z24 and spent many hours waxing both, I got to know the paint well. I think what you are seeing in the older V6Z24 post is the red in bright sunshine. In the current post, it is an overcast day. Big difference in what you 'see'. The red really pops in sunshine. I am confident the old and new posts are the same color.

Up to '84, w/ Sunbirds, Firenzas you could choose a maroon red metallic color. Not sure if the other divisions had it. It was discontinued in '85. This color is reminiscent of the deeper red in the current ad, but it a case of close but no cigar.

Best of luck in your decision!



(Quoting a past member)-"Never underestimate a First Gen"

I would just tooth and comb over it.Buy it yes with intentions to save it.Now storing a car properly is a MUST.I would before storing it,change the oil,trans fluid,brake fluid,and run all of the gas out of it I could and use either seafoam in the tank or stabil or even just plain old rubbing alcohol,to prevent rust and old OLD stinky gas will ruin the pump,filter and clog the fuel lines.I would also suggest putting the car up on jack stands (4) and remove the battery.Oh forgot flush the cooling system and and do a new thermostat.I might suggest doing ALL this prior to storage,and then 1 time a month take your battery to it,install and crank and let idle for 15-20 minutes.Letting a car sit,builds up problems like condensation in the block and screwing up the fuel system,and just worth it to take one day each month and do it.Now just buy that rare ride and start collecting parts it will need.And keep the tires air up'd even on jacks they lose a pound or two when hot/cold temps.

Thanks for the advice guys.

I'm on my way to check it out and I'll post an update when I get back.

John Mac, my 85 bird was the Maroon metallic so it must have been around at least one more year. Maybe Canada only or something?

Ron, you already jumped ahead to my next post if I buy it! Thanks for the info.

So I went and saw the car this morning.

Surprisingly, the car was the Maroon Metallic color, not the bright red. Must have been the camera/bright sun in that first ad.

The good:
Car starts, runs, drives and is currently a daily driver.
Most everything was functional in the car.
Frame seemed to look okay where I could see it.
Newer head installed

The Bad:
A couple of rot holes in the passenger side floor.
A patch has been welded under the driver side floor, seemed solid enough though
Interior is really rough.
Paint is really rough.
Turbo was disconnected when it started to make noise (bearing maybe) Most likely pooched
Sunroof is currently sealed

I think the vehicle could be restored with a lot of time,effort and money but I've decided not to purchase the vehicle. I think there is just to much there for me to take on, especially with the floor condition. I've set around a $5000 budget for a car so I think I'm going to hold out and hang on to the slim chance I might find better. Even if I were to purchase something like that red Z24 or 83 Cav vert that was on ebay and fly to Arizona/California to get it I think I'd be way ahead of the game.

Overall, very disappointing. Thanks for the help though, and I'm going to keep looking.

Go here to search multiple craigslists at once:

http://www.autotempest.com/

This didn't exist when I was looking for my Hawk, so I had to create something to do it. This is so much better than what I did.

If you are like me $5k doesn't come easily and it doesn't spend but once. Sometimes ya just gotta go with the gut and not get wrapped up in the moment.
Still hope someone can scoop up this rare bird and save it from the Chinese Dragon!!



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Exactly Orlen, I think I could blow the budget on this car and still not have much to show for it. Thanks for the tip on the floor pans by the way, I could see the rot right away.

I don't think the guy will scrap it though. He's a bit of a J-Body guy in that he has an 84 Cav Vert as well. He's selling the Bird to put towards a new roof for it. He said if he doesn't get an offer he'll probably keep driving it.

Sorry to read it was a no go, but kudos for being realistic and thinking with your head. And nice to read he won't scrap it.

Keep in the hunt. A good 1st gen J body pops up a few times a year- we are pretty good at sharing leads and finds.




(Quoting a past member)-"Never underestimate a First Gen"

Looks like a repaint Ogie- in looking at large views of the before and after, there is a black 'fender flare' on the RF in the 'after' shots that was not on the 'before', and those large metal flakes are def not factory!

I recall the 'joy' of the manual pop up roof...gotta say I do appreciate a power sunroof :-)



(Quoting a past member)-"Never underestimate a First Gen"

Hey John Mac,

I know it's hard to believe but that is the original paint. I think more of the metallic is visible due to the extremely worn paint condition.

I wouldn't be so positive if the color wasn't identical to my original 85 which was the same dark maroon metallic, he told me that he painted the wheel wells black after doing some rust repair there.

The color in the original ad pictures from 3 years ago is way off as to what it actually looks like.

I used to enjoy completely removing the sunroof though, can't do that anymore! I also got in that way a couple of times when I locked my keys in the car.