Ok I am fully convinced, after now looking at the future possibilities for these first generation OHV engines pre-86, that I will be doing a conversion of this summer. So I am looking for suggestions. Here's what I want:

I want to keep it four cylinder, but I want to add DOHCs. Not to mention an engine that had enough produced that I can find one for a reasonable price and have many upgrade options as far as internals and possibly forced induction.

I found a wrecked (from the rear) 2001 Daewoo Nubira Se. This engine sounds right. It's I4 DOHC with 129 HP and 136 TQ... Is this the C20XE that people talk about?

Here's my update. My good friend driving a 2001 Cavalier is doing a full engine swap to a 2.4 I will be helping him to do the swap. To offset the costs I'm purchasing his 'old' engine and tranny. It's a 2.2 OHV. So I didn't get everything I wanted but I've driven his car several times and like the feel of this motor. It has plenty of TQ.

The Tranny a 5spd with Stg 2 clutch. The Engine is using cold air intake and performance headers. His car is currently laying down approx 135 HP and 150 TQ. It hasnt been dynoed but I assume that's close. I has lots of jump from through the first two gears.

So I'll be taking the full package tranny, engine and everything that makes it run properly for about (here's the sweet part) $600. That's a good price plus after I help him swap his he's going to be doing the same with my swap. So I have help along with the price!

For that price the local yards are selling Ecotec engines plus trans. But the help with the swap may be worth more than the engine.

-->Slow

wait wait wait... you think I can get an ecotec w/ tranny for about 600? I'm gonna look into that.

that engine is junk..... If you arent going to upgrade the engine layout, there is no point in swapping engines.
Look into the 2.0 sohc turbo motors... you will be VERY happy when you crush your friend's car.



Cardomain|Myspace

Maybe I'm crazy because I'm yet understand American engines like I know Nissan engines... But I'd assume that if a person had an ecotec with a turbo it would be much faster than a 2.0 SOHC with a turbo... I mean the ecotec has twice as many valves and without a turbo puts down a comparable amount of power.

I was talking about the 2.2ohv your friend has. Those guessed numbers are going to be waaaaay off too.
The ecotec is a great engine, they fixed most of the problems that the LD9 had. It would be really nice if you could get one of the LSJ ecotecs but that would be a lot more expensive. Around me, I can get a relatively low milage ecotec and transmission for aorund $250 if I pull it all myself. You would need to make custom moounts to do the swap and you can't gaurantee that a manifold for a regular ecotec cavalier will be able to work correctly as the firewall/component clearances will be different. I thought about swapping an ecotec into my sunbird but ended up just building a 2.0 turbo motor up to handle lots of boost. I am pretty happy with my decission. I added a direct-port nitrous system to make up for what the 8 valve head couldn't flow.
You should really look into your options before you settle for a motor that you have to build the hell out of the get 200hp out of.

PS: If you know your Nissan engines, you would like the RB26dett that came stock in my new car ^_^



Cardomain|Myspace

Before I jump back onto the GM engines let me address that last comment... HELL ya the RB26DETT (Skyline Engine) is definetely sweet. I have a 300zx (VG30DETT) and it's engine is better but the handling is worse than the skyline. Its been in a rebuild for 2 years now, because the motor is bad and I'm looking for an entire new one without selling one of my children to pay for it. What car is your RB in?

That's a good point that I hadn't even though about concerning the direction of the intake. Are all of the GMs rear facing intakes?

to be fairly honest this is a tough decision for me, The only thing I know forsure is that I don't want a 6 cyl. I'd in all honestly like to keep it 2.2 or 2.0 but I prefer DOHC because I still dont understand why SOHC makes any sense when it sits next to DOHC on the road. It's like being handicapped to me. My wife's jetta is that way and it irritates the heck out of me.

So, 2.2/2.0 DOHC with a compression ratio that allows for forced induction down the road.

Sorry I actually meant to ask one more thing but was slightly distracted by Nissan talk hehe... You had mentioned a 2.0 SOHC turbo motor. Is this the same one they put in the J2000? I know they put a 1.8T but was the 2.0 a T aswell?

Anyway, assuming this was a possibility, do you suppose I'd have to swap the subframe and axle??? OR should this particular engine use the same equipment PLUS a new ECM, exhaust and intake (obviously)???

starting in 84, they put the 1.8l sohc turbo into the sunbird and olds firenza. they were 150hp mated to a 4 speed muncie or 3 speed auto. 87 they upgraded to a 2.0l sohc turbo that was rated at 165hp. it got backed with a getrag 5 speed or the 3 speed auto. they built this motor 87-90. the turbo 2.0l powered the fastest production j-body.

swapping this motor isnt that hard. you would need the motor, tranny, wiring harness, ecm, axles, rad, hoses, fuel lines and some other bits and peices. the motor mounts are in the same place on the body in all 1st/2nd gen j-cars, so the motor will bolt right in. its a direct swap.

as for potential, these motors respond well to mods. the turbo is a t25, so any t25 turbo will bolt right up. a good upgrade, if you can find one, is a stock turbo from a 89-90 turbo grand prix. it is said to give you 35hp at stock boost, pushing you right up to 200hp. add an intercooler a boost controller and a 2.5-3" exaust, and you can safly run 11lbs boost. now the stock ecm has overboost protection at 12psi, so anything above it shuts the injectors off. to overcome this, you need a custom burned chip. from what i have read, in stock form, the motor will hold 17psi no problems, even with stock fuel system. after that, you need to upgrade injectors and fuel pump, wich would realy be a good idea before that. now do you want to build an insane motor??? there have been a few of these motors pushing 350hp.

350 and beyond man!
The RB is in an R33 GTR and I do feel it is the ultimate NIssan engine.. Stock for stock the VG line is very compairable but as far as responding to mods... the RB26 is probably the most tunable factory boosted engine ever.

The reason for SOHC is pretty simple, space issues, production costs.... The REAL handicap is running a pushrod engine like the 2.2 ohv where the valvetrain is going to be the BIGGEST complication. When they build a motor like that where the head can't flow much of anything, they also don't bother making the internals very strong. One of the great things about the sohc turbo motor is that it came with forged pistons, decently thick rods and (this is controversial) a forged crank. The biggest issue with this one is the balancing of the bottom end and the headgasket... both of which can lead to spun bearing if no properly addressed. You're going to run into the same issues though trying to take any turbo motor over 400hp. Since the 2.0 is only 8:1 compression and comes stock non-intercooled and running low boost.. there is SOOOO much room for improvement. Check my mods if you don't believe me.
The ecotec is great and all and I know it has a good head and GREAT aftermarket, but to me the uniqueness is worth it knowing that nobody else has the parts that you do.



Cardomain|Myspace

Yeah I think the 2.0 T will be the route I run. My biggest fear in doing this swap is that it seems (and I may be way off) that swapping from TBI to EFI will be hard. I HATE this TBI thing though.

Other than the fuel the only other thing thast slightly seems difficult is changing out the axles BUT I'm sure that once the old engine and tranny is out that should seem like a cake walk.

Let me assure you Sinbird that I am not looking into the 400 HP range as my goal... hahaha I'm looking more towards the 200 reasonably and if I get addicted to the engine then maybe I'll shoot up 50 or so. anyway...

I checked out your profile like you said and couldn't find exactly what you were talking about BUT I did notice quite a few similarities between us oddly enough... ( My Cars are Nissan 300ZX, VW Jetta, Chevy Cavalier first gen of course) Now it's my opinion that Volkswagen makes the best 4 cylinder and Nissan makes the best 6 cylinder, I have one of each and so do you. Granted I think TDI is WAY overrated but that 1.9 has alot of potential. I am struggling with whether or not you actually have a skyline considering they are so rare in the US and usually a person driving a skyline in the US has a 6 or 7 figure salary because these cars stateside cost around 60 or 70 K.... but hey you tell me... Oh and I play drums too (as well as guitar but I'm better at drums).

Skylines are sweet but there's no competition... the VG30 kicks both the VG35 and the RB26 to the curb. If Aluminum blocks had been a normal sighting in the early 90's the 300ZX would be that much sweeter than it's competition. I'll say this though... the new Skyline will rule the streets of every country (when it's released) and the new Supra (cowardly using a V8 motor) still won't be able to keep up with the beloved Skyline.

My Skyline isn't here yet.... Streetline is working on brining it over for me right now. The arguement about the two motors... stock for stock, the rb26 is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY better. You don't start getting advantages until the engines are fully built, in which case the VG has advantages with torque and the RB has a slight advantage with peak power. The VG also makes it's torque in a lower and more usable RPM range. The stock bottom end needs to be built if you plan on breaking 400hp though and it needs extensive head work... whereas an RB26 can hit 900+ hp with a stock bottom end and a little head work.

As far as the J goes, TBI to EFI is not hard.. .it goes right with the swap. The easiest way to do any swpa is to get a parts car to work off of. You will find that the swap is relateively easy as everything bolts right up, everything plugs right in.



Cardomain|Myspace

Wow... well at the expense of pissing everyone off with this Nissan talk let me rebut: I do not deny that the RB does have a better head, as far as the interanls go I know all too well that in order to make a terrific VG you MUST upgrade everything.
So I don't deny those claims BUT it would be very simple to say (for example) that a Saleen S7 can produce 750 HP easily whereas a Mustang Saleen does not have it so easy. DUH that's because everything in the Saleen S7 has already been modified the heck out of. In order for a Mustang Saleen to achieve 750HP it's gonna have to go through alot of hoops.

The same applies to the Skyline and the 300ZX. The Skyline (NEW) costs app $70,000 and produces 280HP and 289 TQ BUT the 300ZX costs (NEW) $35,000 and still produced 300 HP and 283 TQ. That's not to say that the RB doesn't have more 'stock' potential but then again you're buying a car who's stock internals are considered HIGH performance parts. Whereas the Z has moderate parts internally.

Besides haven't all the folks at Nismo shown us that the 3.0 is simply a better car than the 2.6 when it comes to the JGTC. They swapped it into the Skyline and then took the 350Z (when it replaced the Skyline at JGTC) pulled it's stock engine out and dropped what into it??? Oh wait I remember... it was VQ30DETT. That is strikingly simlar to the 300zx. In fact it is except it's like a newer version of the same engine.

Don't get me wrong I ain't talkin crap on Skyline, they rock... but for the price I'll drive every mile to Maryland in my 300zx pull up next to your skyline and without thinking twice open the glove box and put my pink slip on the dash. Because dollar for dollar I KNOW the 300ZX will win.

And yes, I'll now be taking ya'lls advice and looking for a wrecked 87, or so, sunbird turbo.

70k new vs 35k new?

mine coming in is an R33 GTR.. and not new. Plus the RB26dett dates all the way back to 1989 when the R32 GTR first was released.... most people would pee if they could get it at the price I am getting mine for.
It just takes waaaaaaaay more money to turn a VG30 into a 900hp engine than it does an RB26. It's hardly fair to bring up the JGTC car either as it first has a VQ and second the engine is shorter... with the JGTC cars they are trying to make perfect 50/50 weight distribution as they can't use the AWD platform according to the rul books.. so of course they would use a V6 engine as they can tuck it further back. Nissan can make 2000hp out of ANY of their engines. It only makes sense for them to chose a V6... and it makes total sense for them to pick the VQ as it is #1 and aluminum block so it weighs less and #2 it is a 60 degree V6 instead of a 90 degree so it takes up less space.... Stock VG rods are beast but the pistons and crank suck.
If you don't plan on going HUGE, the RB is all around better.. the AWD advantage rocks.



Cardomain|Myspace

The JGTC runs two classes with Nismo and one of the classes is not a 200Hp class...hahaha they only run 500 and 300.
I suppose your point on the V design may be valid but hey we still can't ignore that the RB has better internals stock.