ok now before u laugh listen to what i have to say! i think that 2.0's have potential, little, but at least they have some.
now, i have a 3800 supercharged Super Coupe Thunderbird. the engine is @!#$ with everything else in mint cond. now, is their any way to make it work with a 2.0? i want to be creative and try it with no help, but if i can get any, ill take it! i want to have the quickest 2.0 and when i got it it ran 20.7 @ 69 (yes... i know) but in the last year i have knocked it down to 17.6 @78 mph. (still slow but at least i can beat the ricers now) but i love my sunbird and i wanna make it faster! without turboing it, cause everyone does that!
thanx for any comments, good or bad.
ohh yeah and i havent been on the org in a while, i got some new stuff that ill have to take some pics of and post. i got a set of stock sunbird wheels (freebie), phase 1 Z24 bumpers with Phase 2 Skirts (hope it will look good), custom tail lights, Z hood,underbody neons, and a new sound system. ill try to get pics posted soon!
-94Custom
"if its not stock, its custom.
http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/a/t/atl126/ricers1.gif
1. You won't have the fastest 2.0. May as well give that up as a goal.
2. To get a roots supercharger like this to work on an engine not designed for it is going to require a highly complex intake manifold to bolt to it, custom pullies and mounting brackets etc. It would be much easier to make a centrifugal charger like a vortech work because you can plumb it like a turbo.
3. After you bolt a charger up you have a whole host of problems - supplying the fuel neccesary, getting the engine to hold together, and somehow managing the electronics to allow for extra fuel and the sensors to read boost.
in the end, you're going to spend a ludicrus amount of money, and end up having the engine blow up in your face anyways under power, followed shortly by the transmission which can't handle any power either.
Why don't you start fresh with something that makes sense? Sell your car, and buy a 2.0 turbo sunbird if you like 2.0's and sunbirds. It's got most of what you need already in place, you could easily get it into the 13's, and you wont' have to worry about a thing I mentioned above. Besides the time, you're looking at a lot of money to do what you're suggesting right.
Possible? Yes. Anything is really possible.
A good idea? No.
Done before? No.
You could swap any number of engines in and make way more power for FAR less time and money.
BTW even at 17.6@78 you're not even beating almost any car sold today. A 5 speed camry would thrash you. That is a sickningly high time. Stock sunbird turbos can run in the mid 15's with nothing done to them on street tires.
even my buddy with his 4 door 5 speed 2.0l na ran a 16.9 with nothing more than a fart can.
Get a turbo engine and wiring harness. Forget the s/c.
just get a better s/c'd 3.8 and drop it in... plenty of power and it's been done a couple of times... 2nd and 3rd gen...
If you really want to do something get a northstar and put it in your Sunbird.
Scotty Bishop wrote:If you really want to do something get a northstar and put it in your Sunbird.
That would be pretty dumb. an LS1/LS6 etc would be much better. Or the 3800 supercharged as posted since that is a great fit.
Protonus wrote:]That would be pretty dumb. an LS1/LS6 etc would be much better. Or the 3800 supercharged as posted since that is a great fit.
I saw a northstar in a fiero before, and you would be suprised at the fit. Since you have more room in a sunbird I think it would go well. Find a wrecked caddy at an auction, use the drivetrain and wiring harness, and you then have everything that will work together and handle the power. Then get a centrifugal s/c and make it better.
3800's are junk, did you know that the average toilet flushes 3.8 Liters per flush?
If you want more power and would like to have your car driveable within a few days just toss in a 3400.
I've got a cammed, P&P'd 3400 with shorty headers in the garage.. just gotta put it all together and drop it in this spring. 250+ HP at the crank on pump gas, N/A.. should be good for high 13's. We'll see at the 2006 V6 bash
how is a 3800 junk the n/a has 60 more hp than the 3400 lets factor in the 3.8 s/c with a 24% larger s/c and see where we stand...
actually the 3.8s have been rated one of the top motors. I used to work for GM ( 2 dealerships) and hardly had any problems with them.. as a matter of fact you have more problems with the 3.4s IE: natorious for intake leaks.
**changes are here**
actually yur wrong Ryan. the 3800's are junk, the ones we are talking about are Ford 3800's tho, we havent been talking about gm 3800's at all. its out of a Super coupe T-Bird remember guys?!?
doing the 3400 swap isnt that hard actually, my brother did it to his 95 base beretta (my brother is KobleBeretta on BStuff.com) but, the tranny is startin to go out (automatic) how much money do i have to spend on new accesories for the 34 swap? what needs to be new? what can be old? what will it run? and will the trans last?
-94Custom
if its not stock, its custom
http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/a/t/atl126/ricers1.gif
^^ahh sorry about that^^ maybe I should be paying more attention before jumping the gun.. well of course the 3.8 are junk there fords... lol jk.. yeah I though we were talking about the GM's 3.8 (moving on now)
**changes are here**
lol.. ok. let me re-state what i said.
Ford 3.8's are lower than toilet scum.. with that out of the way lets move onto the GM 3800...
where do you get the 3800 N/A numbers being 60 more than a 3400?
the series 2 S/C 3800 made 240 HP.. just 50 more HP than a bone stock 3400.
N/A the 3800 and 3400 are about the same in HP, the 3800 has slightly more TQ due to the larger displacement. advantages of the 3800? some aftermarket... advantages to the 3400? Lighter, Aluminium heads, direct swap into anything that previously had a 60° V6 (2.8/3.1), uses similar sensors in similar locations to the older gen 2 engines, this list goes on and on... the 3400 is about 190 HP stock and can be made to push more than the 3800 S/C with just a little work.
89jyturbo on V6z24 ran a 12.5 sec 1/4 mile on a mildly boosted 3400 with all stock internals..
average stock 3400 N/A Jbodies are running mid 14's, alot of us are planning on breaking into the mid-high 13's next year.
^^^ Who cares what they run, What do they TRAP at? That's the real question. Hell I was only running 14.6 this year but trapping at 96 mph consistently.
traps N/A are between 95 and 99 Mph
89jyturbo's exat time : 12.59 @ 114.77MPH
the top end is nuts on those engines.. i drove Moonwell's around DesMoines, IA a while back to check it out. pulls hard right past 6K
Yes the ford 3800 is yunk. The real question is is't the t-bird running a "vortec type" supercharger??? As for the 3400 skip it, too frail for racing as far as I've been told they don't even hold up well in daily driving.
Back In Black '89 RS
"Get In, Sit Down, Shut Up, and Hold On!"
k i kinda lost track of this thread.
northstar in a j-body: a j-body has way less room than a fiero. if you look at the timing cover/water pump design, you would know how much more rrom they hve. i know a guy with a 4.9l pfi caddy motor in his fiero, and thats a tight fit. if a v8 fwd fit in a J, it would have been done.
3800: yea ok, not a bad motor, except when they catch fire. na they are a boat anchor. they are way to heavy and for the work it takes to mount it in a j its not worth it. na makes 10 hp more than a 3400. in all reality, a 3400 in a j is faster than an n/a 3800 due to weight. as for a 3800sc, yea they are 60hp more than a 3400. take a 3400 drop it in and run a remote mount turbo at 10psi with alcohol injection, that will net mid 12 second runs.
3.8l ford supercharger- you guys just asume that because its ford, its junk. it happens to be an eaton m90, the same as a 3800sc uses. the case is different, but all the internals are the same. the ford m90 is actualy better for fitting onto other things due to the design. it is basicly upside down. air is drawn in the back, and forced out the top. it goes from the top of the blower into the intercooler, and back into the intake.
Okay so It's a "Roots Type Blower" . Not that it matters .
Back In Black '89 RS
"Get In, Sit Down, Shut Up, and Hold On!"
To answer the dudes first post.
Yes you could make it work. If you are very handy with sheet metal and tig welders.
No getting fuel wouldn't be a problem. Fuel pressure regulator that raises fuel pressure with boost crack head.
Truth be told, it wouldn't be all that hard.
Chris Dickinson wrote:To answer the dudes first post.
Yes you could make it work. If you are very handy with sheet metal and tig welders.
No getting fuel wouldn't be a problem. Fuel pressure regulator that raises fuel pressure with boost crack head.
Truth be told, it wouldn't be all that hard.
Did you seriously call me a crackhead? I can only assume that's in reguards to my post. do you even know who I am?
When it comes to 2.0's there are only like 5 other people on this board (and that's at MOST) who's opinion I would even consider listening to. Trust me on this, my opinion is far greater then yours on the subject.
A rising rate regulator is NOT going to solve his problems, as his fuel system is already near maxed out stock. Getting a super charger to fit in that engine bay especially a roots blower is going to be TOUGH. Fabricating the manifolds, brackets, drive system and countless other parts is work only someone with access to at least something like a protrack machine could do.
IT WOULD BE A HUGE WASTE OF TIME SINCE THE ENGINE CAME BUILT AND TURBO'D STOCK.
That is the bottom line. We've got enough failed projects and dreams on this board, dont' get another kid wanting to do something that is a waste of time and energy.
Since when are 3400's 190 hp? all ive read were 170-180hp. maybe the GAGT 3.4HO is 190hp. the L36( N/A 3800) is 200hp/225ft tq. yes thier boat anchors but have so mush more aftermarket its easy to get up into 400+ hp
Juiced Towncar
my friend rob has a zz4 crate small block in his fiero... that thing rocks. He had o cut out the fender well to fit the water pump snout and pulley on....... waaaaaaaaaaaaay more room under the...errr... uhhh... trunk..... than a j-body has under the hood. Just do a turbo 2.0 swap or one of the V6 motors with an m90... something simple that fits.
Cardomain|
Myspace
Protonus wrote:Chris Dickinson wrote:To answer the dudes first post.
Yes you could make it work. If you are very handy with sheet metal and tig welders.
No getting fuel wouldn't be a problem. Fuel pressure regulator that raises fuel pressure with boost crack head.
Truth be told, it wouldn't be all that hard.
Did you seriously call me a crackhead? I can only assume that's in reguards to my post. do you even know who I am?
When it comes to 2.0's there are only like 5 other people on this board (and that's at MOST) who's opinion I would even consider listening to. Trust me on this, my opinion is far greater then yours on the subject.
A rising rate regulator is NOT going to solve his problems, as his fuel system is already near maxed out stock. Getting a super charger to fit in that engine bay especially a roots blower is going to be TOUGH. Fabricating the manifolds, brackets, drive system and countless other parts is work only someone with access to at least something like a protrack machine could do.
IT WOULD BE A HUGE WASTE OF TIME SINCE THE ENGINE CAME BUILT AND TURBO'D STOCK.
That is the bottom line. We've got enough failed projects and dreams on this board, dont' get another kid wanting to do something that is a waste of time and energy.
Don't get offended, i call everybody crackhead, thats my "word". If the system is already maxxed out, do it right. Bigger pickup, larger pump, halfinch solid line up the chassis, Larger injectors. so on so forth. Sledge hammers are notorious for making stuff fit in spaces they wern't desihned to fit in.
But i do agree that it would be WAY more trouble than its worth.
