Ok, I've been going back and forth on this, and I just need some input.
I have the opportunity to buy a sunbird turbo for a good price. It needs some work/money, and it's an automatic. I need to have a 5sp, but a swap brings along it's own stack of problems.
On the other hand, Quad4 5sp. Berettas and Grand ams are fairly easy to find around here, easier than sunbird turbos, anyway.
I plan on buying one of these shortly after I get out of school. I want it to be a "fun" car to drive when I get sick of having feed my 318 dakota at $2.50/gallon. I don't plan on going all out on it, I just want a mild street car to bang through the gears.
What do you guys think? What would you choose?
the only quad 4 worrth getting is a HO or w41. the w41 is nect to impossible to find though. the HO is 180hp. the 2.0l turbo is 165hp 175ft/lb torque.
the HO quad 4 has issues. it is common for blown head gaskets and bearing problems. they are a bit of a rough running motor due to the lack of balance shafts. the turbo 2.0 has its problems as well. they are also known for head gasket problems aswell.
as for modding, the quad 4 is more expensive to mod. about the best bang for the buck is the w41 cams and chip, brings it to 195hp. im sure there is a header out there for it, aswell as intakes and such stuff. as far as turboing it, you gotta rebuild the motor and drop the compression (its a rather high 10.4:1). so at this point, your talking big money. the 2.0 turbo is cheap on the other hand. basicly do a 2.5" exaust, an intercooler, put a BOV on it, turn the boost up some (10-11psi) and your making 200hp. you can go farther and upgrade the turbo, the 3.1l t25 (on the tgp grand prix, 89-90) is perfect, its 35hp increase at stock boost. even go with a gt25 or t3. the bottom end of the motor can hold 250hp stock, and about all ya gotta do is put in good rod bolts, beam polish the rods, copper head gasket and have the block drilled for 1/2" headstuds, and it will hold 350hp.
what would i do??? both are a high matinance motor. the quad 4 ho is a decent motor if you keep up with matinance. the turbo 2.0 is a cheaper motor to mod, getting over 200hp is simple and nothing internal. id likley take the 2.0 turbo
now if we are talking about the cars, id liove a gtz. they are a nice car, i love the look.
when I was 100% stock I was leaving quad 4's easily.
go w/ the 2.0. turbo, lots more potential and a little more reliable. them quad 4's aren't anything close to what people say they are. they aren't anything special.
People say that what doesn't kill you in this life
will make you stronger. I'm not sure if that is true
or not, but i do know one thing-You have to learn from
it and it has to make you better.......it has to.......
i also suggest the 2.0 turbo
1989 Pontiac Sunbird GT - LT3
180 HP Quadfer + multi-layer steel head gasket + spray = FTW
= not even close to the Lt3
just figured Ide solve the equation.
2.0 turbo=t!ts
i somked 2 HO quad 4's when my daytona was stock and automatic none the less. not bad for a car w/ 40 hp less(stock is 140) and weighs 3,127 lbs. stay away from the quad4 junk unless you enjoy fixing your car every other day. why is this motor so over-rated? it's garbage for crying out loud.
People say that what doesn't kill you in this life
will make you stronger. I'm not sure if that is true
or not, but i do know one thing-You have to learn from
it and it has to make you better.......it has to.......
i;ve driven both of course my lt3 was slightly sick, but still...
the quad 4 would be my pick. why you ask? because for what they are.. they are mean. of couse peformance parts are expensive for them, but then again if you want to go aftermarket parts, there are more parts available for the quad because of it's similarities between it and the twin cam. the lt3 on the other hand is an opel motor, and most of the aftermarket stuff for them is either homemade brews or imported from across the pond.
the 086 head is better designed than the lt3 head, it flows much more and it is 16 valve. you can rev higher with the quad than you can the lt3.
and reliabilty... yeah, they are both kinda finicky. the quad is FINE, if you let it warm up to operating temperature before ripping it past 3k. and every lt3 i've seen around these parts has a spun main bearing... so take it as you will.
the lt3 will have more torque sooner, but thats because of the way it is designed, but with the trs header and a high flow exhaust, our HO pulls hard off the line, and all the way to redline. high 14's.
the stock t25 on the 2.0 is worthless, and i've read on here how people complain about traction issues when running higher than 8psi. try driving a fwd 1g tsi with 2g pistons with the boost control set at 17psi on a 14b.. then you will know traction problems. i had massive problems hooking up until after third gear, and that is without dropping the clutch.
and i've raced stock daytona turbo's with the quad before we did anytihng to it, and there was not even a race. the stock 'tona turbo is too small to even notice a significant PULL when boost hits(completely stock, no grainger valve). and the 'tona is a very heavy car for it's power plant, maybe one of the shelby tona's as they run mid 14's stock.
it's a toss up really, depending on your location they will both be pricey to repair and to mod if you get into any serious damage. but good luck in your decision, i figured i would throw a little bit of my insight into this instead of making false claims about how the lt3 will desimate all... because, it just doesn't. GOOD LUCK!
-andy
'88 convt. sunbird GT turbo (project car)
'02 sunfire GT (daily driver)
email me
Uh... what? 2.0 Turbo of course FTW hands down.
deezaythe 086 head is better designed than the lt3 head, it flows much more and it is 16 valve. you can rev higher with the quad than you can the lt3. [/quote wrote:
Stock vs stock you can rev them about the same. You can easily make the LT3 rev higher. It has a stronger drivetrain and lower end. The valve train is simpler and lighter on the LT3 as well. The softness of the valve springs and the weight of the rockers would be your biggest limiting factor, outside of the strength of the rods and bolts , which you can upgrade the rod bolts, rockers, and valve springs easily.
AS for flow? Put the C20LET or XE head on the LT3 and you now have a DOHC 16v head that outflows the 086 head AFAIK so, that's a pretty easy choice for me.
Quote:
every lt3 i've seen around these parts has a spun main bearing... so take it as you will.
NEVER seen a spun main bearing on LT2 or LT3's or the 1.8. ARe you sure you didn't mean rod bearing? That's possible but again I'm doubting you saw spun mains.
Quote:
the lt3 will have more torque sooner, but thats because of the way it is designed, but with the trs header and a high flow exhaust, our HO pulls hard off the line, and all the way to redline. high 14's.
It's a SOHC square motor.. has little to do with design. IT should not have more torque sooner then your HO, UNTIL the boost kicks in. Teh HO is a higher displacement AND higher compression motor. IIf you dyno them both the HO is going to have more low end grunt, again until turbo spool.
Quote:
the stock t25 on the 2.0 is worthless, and i've read on here how people complain about traction issues when running higher than 8psi. try driving a fwd 1g tsi with 2g pistons with the boost control set at 17psi on a 14b.. then you will know traction problems. i had massive problems hooking up until after third gear, and that is without dropping the clutch.
Uh... errr... The stock 25 isn't worthless, you can nail 14's with it. The TGP turbo is a great upgrade good for 13's as is a small t3 like mine. As far as traction a lot of it is suspension wear and tire choice.
Quote:
and i've raced stock daytona turbo's with the quad before we did anytihng to it, and there was not even a race. the stock 'tona turbo is too small to even notice a significant PULL when boost hits(completely stock, no grainger valve). and the 'tona is a very heavy car for it's power plant, maybe one of the shelby tona's as they run mid 14's stock.
Uh.. that would depend entirely on year as both the turbos AND engines differ (mitsu turbos vs t3 vs VNT turbos and also 2.2 vs 2.5 motors). But the majority of them use the T3 I have on my car which is nearly 30% larger then the stock t25 on a sunbird.
[qoute]it's a toss up really, depending on your location they will both be pricey to repair and to mod if you get into any serious damage. but good luck in your decision, i figured i would throw a little bit of my insight into this instead of making false claims about how the lt3 will desimate all... because, it just doesn't. GOOD LUCK!
Does it decimate all? No. But you'd be hardpressed to duplicate any where near as good a platform for performance with a quad 4 without spending a lot of money.
^^^ kinda agree w/ protonus. oh and nice convertible, i like it
People say that what doesn't kill you in this life
will make you stronger. I'm not sure if that is true
or not, but i do know one thing-You have to learn from
it and it has to make you better.......it has to.......
I just saw I screwed up the quote and there is no edit button here ugh.... just read the whole quote I have and my responses are in between grrrr.
hmmmm
ok
cruz the 3ed gen fourms more, Ld-2's and the rest of the quad famely have problems only if not mantaned.
my only advise would be to drive both, look at both yourself and learn about both.
good luck
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
There's 3 w41 cars here in town. Two Beretta GTZ's and an 89 Oldsmobile Achieva (a friend has it actually) The city's population is only 35,000 too, a city so small there's only one corvette in town, and it's not really in town (it's down at the military base)
go visit quadfourms......
if i where in your position i would jump on that W-41.... GTZ's only came with HO's still thats 180 hp and 160 FT\lbs
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
180hp is still pretty impessive for a 4 banger.
Seeing as how the oldsmobile is from a friend who cares nothing about cars, she'd probably sell me the car for cheeeeeap. The two GTZ cars arent up for sale though
