ive just blown my second head gasket in 5000kms......not cool.........I want to go all out and put the absolute best gasket in! .......should I O ring? should i go with cometic?? does cometic offer a new phuzion gasket and o ring set for this motor???? copper gasket??? someone help......I plan on adding bigger injectors and running higer boost after a little tuning is done. i dont want to deal with my head gasket anymore!

jordan are you 100% SURE the head isn't warped?! i run the cometic, currently running 13psi, once the zaust is redone i'll be running more, but the exhaust is restricting the turbo flow. i personally like the cometic and then use the copper spray gasket to ensure any imperfections on either sealing surface are filled!


1st 1st gen on air.....

Yeah, it sounds like you either put the old head bolts in, have a warped head, or didn't get everything clean. I replaced the head on mine in February, and have driven it from Indiana to California, and all over the place out there, then back and have had no problems at all.

make sure youi change your headbolts when you do the job. they are torque to yeild, and once they are stretched, they are junk. also make sure you do the re-torque after its been heat cycled once. this is a crucial step. id take the head in and have it pressure tested (to check for cracks) then have it planed. even though a striaght edge shows that its flat, there may be minor imperfections you cant see.

ya....my mechanic is redoing the job under his own workmanship warranty.......im just going to be payin for parts......when i last replaced my headgasket I installed a new head.....its a rebuilt.....i dont know whether or not the head bolts were replaced....i know they should have been......ill be sure to tell him to get new headbolts and to get the head machined......now all i need is a really good gasket......maybe even o rings.......and fast! where can i get a good gasket???

lordco can get the cometic head gasket in. just make sure the guy doing it cleans the block off real good and uses several coates of the copper spray sealant.

you can o-ring the block, but its not realy worth it. to o=ring the block, its gotta come out and all apart and needs to be machined. there are some people out there running 17psi with a bone stock motor and not having problems, so stock or slightly elevated boost levels shouldnt be having issues.

sweet.....i didnt know lordo would carry em?! copper sealant spray eh?? well ive been told that you have to install these MLS head gaskets dry......no slealant at all.....because the cometic already has sealant applied to both sides of the gasket.?? on a side note.......how hard is it to reprogram my computer to run a bot more fuel?? would the stock fuel pump (brand new as of yesterday) and stock injectors be able to handle more?

justins (abby 87) and i put a cometic headgasket in his car. instructions said put it in dry, upon fire up it was spraying coolant under the intake manifold. ripped it all apart and it was clear it didnt seal. after talking with a couple honda guys (one with a 10 second daily driven crx), they said put lots of spray sealer on it. i think we did 3 or 4 coats on either side and it was good.

hmm......k ill remember that. what brand of sealer did you use?

no clue lol spray copper stuff from lordco,

jordan the cometic is about 10 days away, call JP @ lordco abbotsford, he's got the PN handy... not sure price tho can't find reciept off hand.

as for added boost, what kinda psi are you planning? ecm will only allow 11psi before you need to retune it. What do you have for monitering what's going on because as was warned to me i will not be responsible if you blow up your motor with the information i give you.....




1st 1st gen on air.....

Jordan,

Please take a minute to think about something. The guys who spend time drag racing know that part of the chase is "finding the next weak link." For example, the trans blows so you replace it. Then the rear axle blows so you get a stronger one. Then the driveshaft blows so you buy a larger one. The game never stops when you're searching for more power and more speed.

Street cars aren't usually as bad, but the potential is still there. If you have more experience and are better at sticking to the limits of the vehicle then you're less likely to break things. But there's always a chance, especially when you're still learning about aspects like tuning and boost, to destroy parts.

You have to ask yourself "What's next?" After you install a head gasket that can survive a nuclear blast, what's the next weak part? Piston? Rods? Rod bolts? Head? Crank? Each one of those costs more coin than a gasket to replace, and most of them have the potential to make a scrap pile out of your engine if they fail.

If your engine has many miles on it, you may just want to think about skipping the Cometic for something else. A lesser gasket and some tools for monitoring what's going on would work well enough for quite a while. You could have caught a lean condition with a wide band. Heck, even an old laptop and scan software would have helped you see knock and lean fuel. Imagine being able to shut the engine down before parts blow up instead of after?

Back to your regularly scheduled program.
-->Slow

Just to add 5 cents to the discussion. At time, my motor (2L turbo) blew 2 headgaskets in one summer, which did rang the alarm bells for me. Upon close examination, it turned out to be faulty injector on cyl #1, creating lean condition and detonating. I swapped all the injectors for new ones and never had a problem since. The piston did give way eventually (detonation weakened valve cap broke off the shaft, fell into the combustion chamber and did the damage). Wideband 02 sensor did not detect lean conditions, as the other 3 injectors were compensating, and combined flow in the exhaust pipe was not lean. Do yourself a favour and get EGT installed. If you run lean, you will know as yout exhaust temp will go up quite a bit. Headgaskets do not just blow (if installed incorrectly), but its the detonation that kills them. If you install Cometic MLS, yes, it will hold, but then detonation may find another weak point to go through. Usually the pistons.



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haha......im not completely clueless when it comes to boost/detonaton/and the risk of blowing the next weakest part..........I know exactly why my HG went.......I ran extremely lean due to a failing fuel pump.....we tested my fuel pressure at the shreader valve and it said i was at 27 rather than the required 47 to run my motor. As far as weak links......Ive already had my motor apart and ive inspected the pistons and their rings.....the connecting rods....and their bearings.....I decided i would throw some new connecting rod bearings in ......even tho my previous ones showed very little wear.....I know its not stupid to throw in a really good head gasket.....this motor is notoriously bad for blowing them.....I do however think it would be stupid for me not to take care of my fuel delivery issue and just throw a new gasket on.......So ive already thrown in a new fuel pump and im getting all new injectors when my mech puts my car under the knife this wednesday......Ill make sure that he plains the head........cleans both mounting surfaces well......and seals it properly with sealant / proper torque specs / and new head bolts.....Im pretty confident that when thats all said and done my car will be running pretty dang good.
AS far as boost is concered.....what kind of software do i need to tune my computer.....Ive heard that it really doesnt take a lot to make this motor happy.....I want to add more fuel.....and boost.......what are the limitations of my fuel pump and injectors tho? are there any slighly larger injectors I can add to this car without any or little modifications???

p.s. lordco said they dont deal with cometic......whats my next best bet.....mopac?

you can go to mopac. like justin (abby87) said, call up the abby lordco during the week between 11m and 8pm and ask to talk to JP, and tell him justin told you to call. he is our parts guy and takes care of us. he got justins gasket in for his car, he should be able to get another one in.

K cool......thanx

Quote:

I want to add more fuel

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that you're still learning. OEM tune doesn't need more fuel.

-->Slow

what do you mean oem doesnt need more fuel.???....I want to have add more fuel so I can raise the boost......

no you dont need more fuel, you need ve and ignition tables that are setup so you can run more than 12 psi. this will also require you to use a 3 bar map sensor.

jordan, these guys know their collective s**t

Cometic doesn't offer the Phuzion for our 2.0 because the bore spacing is too close together. Everyone always asks where to get Cometic gaskets, just call them directly! The only problem will be they make them to order so it'll take a week or more. Unless they suddenly decided to make a bunch of them or someone here knows a place that ordered a bunch and has a stockpile anyway. They're about $80 bucks list price too.
Copper gaskets don't exist here in the US you need to have them made or get them in the UK. Most US companies will ask you to send a sample they can copy.
The best, fastest available gasket you can get will be the Isuzu 2.2 gasket for a 1998 or 99 Amigo. Call an Isuzu dealer and see if they have one in stock. The Isuzu dealer near me usually has one in the parts counter window believe it or not. I say it's best because it has embossed rubber sealing areas, a wider fire ring, more material around the water jackets and sealer applied to the faces. I don't have the part number with me here at work but I've posted it before.
It's not a miracle gasket by any means so I'll echo what my Sunbird Nation peers have said about monitoring EGT, AFR, knock, etc. If I had monitored knock from the beginning I'd have saved myself a ton of grief and work in the long run. I have 1/2" head studs, an O-ringed block and at one point I had O-rings in the head too. It is possible to blow a gasket with all these tricks in place, trust me I know. If you're going to increase the boost past 17 lbs you need to start altering the computer programming. Yes, they have a lot of fuel but they also have a lot of timing in them too. That's what's gonna kill you. All the fuel in the world won't save you with too much timing. Learn from my expensive example!

MSD has a knock alert that's simple to install and costs about $160 bucks from Summit. Sounds a little expensive but what's changing the headgasket cost in parts and aggravation? Give it some thought. I don't check in here as much as I use to but if I can help at all email me directly at olzkng@aol.com

Tony


Tony
1987 Sunbird GT turbo convert
Ported intake, Fiero 53 MM TB, 52 lb inj, ported and flowed head, tube header, Mitsu TD06, ARP rod
bolts/head studs, adj cam sprocket, 4" x 12" x 31" FMIC, Paxton AFPR, modified 125 trans/LSD
unit/3.42's, custom chip tuning, Alky Control Methanol injection
13.61 ET at 101.44 mph, 262 WHP/350WTQ

2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP roadster, 2.0 turbo w/GMPP exh, CAI and turbo upgrade, 290 hp/325 ft lbs

1969 Olds 442 convert
400 Eng, 200-4R trans, 3.73 posi, power everything, OAI

tony........i gotta hand it to ya man.........your god......haha jk but thats awsome man, exactly what i needed to know......Ill most likely go with that izuzu one...now that you mentioned it....thanx a lot man. ill definitely be mailin ya .......probably mail assaulting you haha jk

jordan can i suggest 2 guages that';ll save you headaches when tuning?
AEM UEGO wideband 02 on sale @ lordco for 314
and any pyrometer so you can keep tabs on your EGT's....

Tony, still no manifold i think can post thinks it's a bomb or something.... LOL
your running a pyrometer are you not: what do your egt's get around when your hard into it?


1st 1st gen on air.....

worth concidering! thanks

Justin: to be honest I haven't noticed EGT's while I'm at full throttle because I'm too busy holding the steering wheel straight! That and watching boost, fuel pressure, etc. Some high-tech drag racer huh? I want to say it's around 1100-1200 under full boost . I'm going to the track very soon so I'll try harder to keep an eye on it. I know at highway speeds it's around 1250 but it's leaned out a little to help the mileage. I also know my AFR shows 12.2 pretty steady under full throttle.

Jordan: Would you email my wife and tell her I'm God? I'd appreciate it. Ha ha ha. Most days I feel like Satan actually.
Don't forget Ned - he was the original God of the turbo Sunbirds. And Slowolej is the God of computer tuning. I worship at his church often.

For what it's worth I use an Autometer pyrometer I got at Summit for around $130 bucks and a Innovate LM1 wideband I bought locally from a guy who sells them cheaper than Summit. Two pretty worthwhile pieces of equipment. I can't say enough about that MSD knock detector too. Such a simple thig to buy that'll save you so much trouble.
Email me whenever you like.

Tony


Tony
1987 Sunbird GT turbo convert
Ported intake, Fiero 53 MM TB, 52 lb inj, ported and flowed head, tube header, Mitsu TD06, ARP rod
bolts/head studs, adj cam sprocket, 4" x 12" x 31" FMIC, Paxton AFPR, modified 125 trans/LSD
unit/3.42's, custom chip tuning, Alky Control Methanol injection
13.61 ET at 101.44 mph, 262 WHP/350WTQ

2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP roadster, 2.0 turbo w/GMPP exh, CAI and turbo upgrade, 290 hp/325 ft lbs

1969 Olds 442 convert
400 Eng, 200-4R trans, 3.73 posi, power everything, OAI