And I'm wondering what you guys have been doing to get some good power out of them? I'm in the hunt ofr another car because my '97 just isn't going to get finished any time soon. I've been working on a turbo setup but quite frankly the body is rusting badly now and the longer I wait to install the turbo the more repairs I end up doing just to keep the car running. So at this point I'm weighing my options. Right now it seems like the smart thing to do is ditch the '97 turbo project, cut my losses, and pick up a 2G Z24. I've really been wanting a Galant VR4 but I can't justify $6K for a bone stock 16-year-old car that I'm still goignt ohave to drop a decent chunk of money just to get it the way I want it. On the other hand, I've found clean 2nd gen Zs for under $2K, and for a couple grand I'm sure I could have one hell of a fun ride. I just need a little insight.
the 3400 swap is pretty decent. the motor bolts in with a few mods (need an aftermarket or custom front engine mount bracket, throttle cable from a 95 v6 beretta, lengthening some wires) and it will yeild you 180hp, 40 more than a stock 3.1l. they also are very boost friendly motors, 10psi on an otherwise stock motor can yeild you 280+hp and still be reliable.
your a member of JBOI, surely you see the things Jason, Brad, and Dave are doing with their 2nd gens. Check out v6z24.com otherwise for swaps, quite of few people are running the 3400 and turbo setups.
| '89 Z24 Auto | '99 Prelude 5spd | '04 GS500F | '05 HD 883L |
Quote:
And I'm wondering what you guys have been doing to get some good power out of them?
Stripping them, so I can use the trans and suspension pieces in a turbo'ed 4 cyl car.
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girlRacer wrote:your a member of JBOI, surely you see the things Jason, Brad, and Dave are doing with their 2nd gens. Check out v6z24.com otherwise for swaps, quite of few people are running the 3400 and turbo setups.
Actually, I don't get to see too much of the cars we have in the local club. We've only had one organized meet since I joined, and Jason was the only one there that had done a whole lot. His 3400 Aztec swap was sexy for sure. We met up at Elemental Designs recently and it seemed like he got the bugs worked out. I haven't had the chance to look at Brad or Dave's rides.
i know im going to get bitched at for this but i personally like the 3.1 but its ur choice i know the 3400 has more power and better flowing heads but my stock 3.1 in my 90 z24 put me into 15's easy, i think most guys have no idea wat there doing so they go the easy way out and just swap the 3400 but pesonally i like the 3.1 and im keeping my 3.1 for awhile to come and im going to prove i can get mid 13's on a 3.1 n/a motor, flame me if u want but ur not going to get anything out of it.
im not gonna flame you, i just am going to educate you.
right now the record for a 60 degree v6 n/a is 13.94. a friend of mine ran that with his extensivly built 3.1/3400 hybrid. several others have run 13s, most notable is colin (v6ho) was the first to run 13s n/a, he went a 13.99 with another 3.1/3400 hybrid. see the problem with the 3.1l is the heads dont flow that well. yes you can extensivly port the heads, 5 angle valve job, ect, but then you are faced with the issue of the intake manifolds. the 3.1l intake is alright for 140hp, but it just becomes to restrictive when aiming for 200+hp (thats what it takes to run high 13s). you can have it extrude honed for massive piles of cash but in the end its not going to help that much. you could build a custom intake, but that is a lot of work and engineering, more than most will go through.
now this is were the 3400 top end swap comes in. the 3400 heads flow very well from factory, and even better with some porting. same deal with the intakes. they are a lot better design to start with and porting makes them better. its actualy up in the air weather a full 3400 is better than a hybrid, as the fastest n/a v6 cars are both hybrids.
am i saying a 3.1l with 3.1l heads cant run 13s??? no im not, with enough time and money anything can be done. is it going to be cost effective??? no, is it going to be very streetable??? no. i had built a gen 1 ironhead 2.8l for my car a year and a half ago. i spent over $5g by the time it was in the car just on the motor and exaust. to date i have a best of a 15.40 to my name. a 3400 swap generaly costs $1500-$2000 depending on what clutch is used and cost of the motor. generaly, a stock 3400 dropped in without tuning will run mid 14s. realy when i look back, for 1/3rd the money i could have had a car that ran a full second faster. why didnt i do it??? i thought id do something different and prove everyone wrong. even with my 10 years of engine building experiance and my dads 35 years, we could take old stuff that people said doesnt work and make a ton of power. granted i was running stock computer and maxing 16lb injectors, but most 3400 swaps do the same. i now have a stand alone ecu and im able to make better use of what i have.
now im not saying dont build a motor. my motor has had 50k km on it and i havent had one problem with it. it runs smooth, has a good powerband, and there is nothing like the feeling of driving something that you built. all im saying is follow others advice and to use the best parts avalible when trying to reach a horsepower goal. dont try to prove everyone wrong, most likley they have already tried it and it didnt produce the results wanted.
ill leave you with a site. www.60degreev6.com . its a site dedicated to the gm 60 degree v6 motors, ranging from the first 2.8l to the all new 3900, and even all the DOHC stuff too.
So far; there's one car in particular that I'm looking at picking up. It's a 94 Z24, equipped with a 5-speed (thank God). It's got 156K miles on it, which I suppose is a bit high, but given the age of the car, that's about 12K/year. Plus it's seemingly been well cared for over the last 13 years. Given that it's got way fewer miles, a better motor, and a much straighter body than my current ride, I'd be retarded not to snatch this one up.
Anyway, as far as whether to swap a complete 3400 or do a hybrid, I'm still weighing the options and researching the ins and outs of both. With the 3400, I could definitely talk to Jason and I'm sure he'd be happy to share his knowledge with me. And he's local, so that would be beneficial should I decide to take that route and need any help. The hybrid may or may not be better suited towards my goals and budget, but again, I'm still researching. At this point, I'm expecting to have a budget of about $3K, give or take, after I buy the car. Given that I've been working on a turbo for my current car, I'm also seriously entertaining the idea of boosting this V6. I think it'd be relatively simple to fab a custom up-pipe from each cylinder bank, the difficult part would be finding room under the hood for everything. An all-motor build may actually be a better approach and considering what I've seen Jason do with his, I know the potential is there.
ln2johnny wrote:And I'm wondering what you guys have been doing to get some good power out of them?
while my car's not exactly a z24, it has many of the same parts as far as drivetrain and suspension go...but none of the interior options.
what did i do to get decent power out of it? with a good deal of help from some friends, i essentially have a mildly modified turbo grand prix engine. still a full 3.1, just a li'l this and that added or swapped. yeah, a 3400 could've made some decent numbers for me. a hybrid could've done the same. but i already had a complete 3.1, and some of the important custom parts came off a buddy's car. i'm big on convenience!
i was never terribly concerned with hp numbers (though i did want something a little surprising) or 1/4-mile times. i just love the torque! i like to tell folks i did it for extra passing power on the highway.
i don't bother with how much $$ i've dumped into the car. as far as i'm concerned, it's still a $1200 beater with improved driveline and dampers.
Have you seen the turbo wagon?
13.90 @ 105.46mph
street tires
rough tune
Jux, I'd like to hear more about this turbo setup. What parts are needed, where to surce them, etc.
As far as the intake and head flow issue that Sharkey brought up, couldn't a 3100 or 3400 manifold be used along with the ported heads? I'm guessing they would have a bit better flow. They'd look ten times better too.
ln2johnny wrote:Jux, I'd like to hear more about this turbo setup. What parts are needed, where to surce them, etc.
all depends on how far you're willing to go with things, i suppose. to use the kind of setup i had, you'll need to source the rear exhaust manifold from the ol' turbo grand prix...available 89-90, as i recall. check out www.car-part.com as a decent source. maybe ebay if the mood strikes someone.
you can use your stock front exh manifold.
after that, you'll need to fab up a crossover to connect the front & rear manifolds and direct the exhaust into a turbo.
exhaust from the turbo back, intercooler if you want one, some kind of engine management to make everything work properly...blah blah blah.
again, all depends on how deep into it you want to get.
not to be a walking billboard, but my setup has recently changed. i have about all the parts you'd need, aside from the rear exhaust manifold, just taking up space in the wagon or in the hall closet. shoot me an email if you'd like, and i'd be happy to send some pictures your way...or the parts, if you're so inclined. i'm a nice guy like that.
Have you seen the turbo wagon?
13.90 @ 105.46mph
street tires
rough tune
Yeah if you've got some pics of under the hood, I'd like to see how you rotued everything. My thought was - if I buy this car - to convert over to turbo, and have the ECU reprogrammed with the STE fuel and timing maps - if that's possible.
I'm a lot like you, in the fact I don't want to build a complete track whoring dyno queen. This will replace my 3rd Gen as a daily driver so I need to keep it reliable.
Here's a shot of the custom crossover when the engine was initially installed...
...in the engine bay with the turbo in place...
...and the way the install looked until about three months ago...
crossover, two exhaust manifolds and two downpipes (from turbo to cat location under car) before install
There are other pieces involved, of course, like an altered tranny mount bracket & whatnot...
Have you seen the turbo wagon?
13.90 @ 105.46mph
street tires
rough tune
maybe at the spring JBOI meet i'll have my 91Z there... Jason and I have been talking about one in a few months at the tanger outlet mall again. Usually a good turnout there.
Dave
Dave (Whitelightning2) wrote:maybe at the spring JBOI meet i'll have my 91Z there... Jason and I have been talking about one in a few months at the tanger outlet mall again. Usually a good turnout there.
Dave
Sweet. Just so you know, Dave, I'm not giving up on the J-Body yet, but I might be there with a different animal altogether. Tomorrow I'm going to Winterset to look at a 92 Galant VR4 and then if I can get ahold of the guy, there's another one in Winterset that I'd like to have.
