I have a question...
i have a Cavy VL 2.2 ...
After rebuilding and replacing my motor, when i hook the EGR Vaccum Solenoid up (which is bolted to the front of the throttle body having two ports for vaccum lines on it) the car will act like its hitting a governor at 30 MPH ...
Any reason why?
my second question is how exactly is vaccum lines supposed to be ran through this sensor/solenoid (i know a rubber end goes on to end of the piece and i cant remember if it has two or three ports on it) ... between my head swap and then my subsequent bottom end rebuild.. my vaccum system is all @!#$ up.... everything is hooked up... but this is the one sensor i had no clue exactly how things went...
Okai... i replaced it... its STILL governing out at about 30 MPH... (when i floor).... i can feather it up to speed...
ive tried running vaccum => EGR every which way... ive tried running vaccum to both ends, ive tried disconnecting it from vaccum as well...
ive rulled out that its inline with the EGR... so what is it inline with???
imma try to go to the junk yard tomorrow and look at how vaccum lines are ran...
Just peruse this and see if there is any help here
From my '93 2.2 info:-
1.The ported vacuum line from the Throttle Body supplies vacuum to the valve (It doesn't appear to matter which way round the vacuum is connected)
2. The other vacuum connection goes to the EGR valve.
3. The EGR solenoid is Normally Closed {This assembly is designed with a constant internal bleed}.
4. The 10 Amp gauges fuse supplies +12volts to Pin A and pin B is grounded by the ECM [With input from various sensors] On the harness connector which plugs into the EGR Solenoid--- Do you have +12 volts on Pin A to a good ground with ignition ON?
You said
ive ruled out that its inline with the EGR... so what is it inline with???] ----My shop manual says it is ?
Have you :-
First checked to see if you still have the "Vehicle Emissions Control Label" which will show you how the vac. lines are routed--mine is on the panel that the hood latches into.
a. Manualy lift the EGR valve [Engine idling @ normal op temp] RPM should decrease or Engine should stall.
b. Disconnected the ported vaccum line from the throttle body and checked for vacuum( making sure it's not blocked) should be 7" Hg @ 2,000 RPM. You should be able to feel the vacuum there if you don't have a vac gauge.
You may have a DTC 32 set which could be a Fuel Pressure defect? "When the ECM tests for EGR operation and no change in engine operating conditons is indicated a DTC 32 will be set"
Post the progress, please
Alont
alont wrote:Just peruse this and see if there is any help here
From my '93 2.2 info:-
1.The ported vacuum line from the Throttle Body supplies vacuum to the valve (It doesn't appear to matter which way round the vacuum is connected)
2. The other vacuum connection goes to the EGR valve.
3. The EGR solenoid is Normally Closed {This assembly is designed with a constant internal bleed}.
4. The 10 Amp gauges fuse supplies +12volts to Pin A and pin B is grounded by the ECM [With input from various sensors] On the harness connector which plugs into the EGR Solenoid--- Do you have +12 volts on Pin A to a good ground with ignition ON?
You said ive ruled out that its inline with the EGR... so what is it inline with???] ----My shop manual says it is ?
Have you :-
First checked to see if you still have the "Vehicle Emissions Control Label" which will show you how the vac. lines are routed--mine is on the panel that the hood latches into.
a. Manualy lift the EGR valve [Engine idling @ normal op temp] RPM should decrease or Engine should stall.
b. Disconnected the ported vaccum line from the throttle body and checked for vacuum( making sure it's not blocked) should be 7" Hg @ 2,000 RPM. You should be able to feel the vacuum there if you don't have a vac gauge.
You may have a DTC 32 set which could be a Fuel Pressure defect? "When the ECM tests for EGR operation and no change in engine operating conditons is indicated a DTC 32 will be set"
Post the progress, please
Alont
1) alright
2) which other connection are you referring to... on the top of my throttle body there is a splitter that brings it out to four ports... one i know goes to the fuel rail, two go behind the motor and distribute out, and the last one IIRC went to the EGR... i dont remember the solenoid inline...
3) that makes sense... and when i floor it and the car acts like its governors at 25 - 30 mph... is when the solenoid opens...
4) i definately will test that today... i assume pin 2 wont be grounded until the solenoid is ready to open?
a) when i hook up EGR to vaccum the engine boggles down and struggles harder to idle, i'll try manually lifting it today...
b) i do feel vaccum
i wish i could check my check engine code... but my data port is bad...
could you look in the service manual and tell me which way is in and which way is out on the solenoid in terms of vaccum....like if PIN A side is in or out... or if PIN B side would be in or out or if it matters which way vaccum is hooked to it...
Could DTC 32 cause the fuel pump to shut off at high RPM, only when the solenoid is hooked up? when i unhook the solenoid, i dont have this problem
Hi Kyle
if you click on either of the two 2.2's in my profile you will see a picture of the emissions label with the vacuum line routing.
Just in case it helps you while I load things up properly
Alont
Hey Kyle
thanks to cannon fodder's great instructions, here it is!
Alont
Hi Kyle
so the EGR solenoid is definitely in line with the EGR valve and is fed vacuum from the throttle body.
1. Further digging shows a molded "junction" on the EGR solenoid. The LOWER vacuum nipple goes through a right angle and vertically up to the Throttle Body ported vacuum, the UPPER vacuum nipple also goes through a right angle and then horizontally to the EGR valve. But in the diagram--- [It doesn't appear to matter which way round the vacuum is connected]
NOTE---- There is an EGR Valve INJECTOR in the exhaust manifold, it has a port in it that must be fitted facing directly towards the throttle assembly.---This was not removed and refitted--Was it?
2.[and the last one IIRC went to the EGR... i dont remember the solenoid inline...] the book shows the Ported vacuum from the throttle body, through the EGR solenoid and then on the the EGR valve.
3.OK
4. Correct, ECM grounds it with inputs from Engine Coolant Temp(ECT) Sensor and Throttle Position sensor.
DTC 32 can be set if the ECM commands EGR valve open and there is no detected change in engine operating i.e. no exhaust gas entering the intake manifold. Low fuel pressure or lean fuel injectors can set a DTC 32.
Another thought, if the Diagnostic test terminal is grounded the EGR solenoid should be energised.
When the Diagnostic port is ungrounded the EGR solenoid should be de-energised.
You said [i wish i could check my check engine code... but my data port is bad..]------
Is it grounded ALL the time and maybe causing all the problems.
The Data Link connector is wired:-
A-----H---23 pin inst panel connector-----------black/white-----C1 at ECM---ECM ground.
B-----C--23 pin inst panel connector------------white/black-----B9 at ECM-Diagnostic test
M-----J--23 pin inst panel connector------------orange------------D12 at ECM-Serial Data
Alont
okai let me see if i got all this right...
1) coming out of the solenoid there is the rubber end, with two ports, one going straight, one going up... the one going up at a 90 degree angle goes to the throttle body... the one going straight at a 180 degree angle goes to the EGR
AFAIK, the exhaust manifold was only taken off and put back on.. nothing came out of it... i also had a lighter version of this problem before i spun a Rod berring and rebuilt the motor. but is it possible for the injector to go bad?
2) ok
3) --
4) alright... my multi meter crapped out so imma try to get one today.... however... the one thing im still not understanding... i unhooked the solenoid from vaccum and ran vaccum straight to the EGR... so the solenoid is plugged up electricly, but no vaccum.... the car still governs out when i floor it... how can the solenoid have any effect on the motor's functions without vaccum? i know its the solenoid, because if i disconnect it electrically, the car wont govern at all... ive also replaced the solenoid with a brand new AC Delco one... same thing with a new solenoid....
5) So i should be checking to see that the ECM ground is grounded all the time, and the diagnostic test is not grounded? I used to be able to stick a paper clip on the diagnostic port and the check engine light would blink. i dunno when exactly it quit working but i cant do that anymore... and the scanner i attempted to use last was a dealership scan tool and i gave it power straight from the car battery
6) My next step is to get a multimeter and junk yard run for a new top half of the throttle body. One of the screw holes for the MAP sensor is stripped out so only one screw is holding it in, and im getting a large vaccum leak around it... im tempted to order a new MAP sensor too... because ive replaced every other sensor on the throttlebody. ... it doesnt make too big of a difference when i try to push the MAP sensor in to place... but i know thats one of my problems... and if the sensor is bad, it could be causing a lot of my problems...
Hi Kyle
1.The LOWER vacuum nipple goes through a right angle and vertically up to the Throttle Body ported vacuum, the UPPER vacuum nipple also goes through a right angle and then horizontally to the EGR valve. These vacuum tubes, although moulded into the same unit are still two separate tubes. If you look on the Emission Hose Routing label (above) it states that the UPPER connection on the EGR Sloenoid Valve goes on to the EGR Valve.
but is it possible for the injector to go bad?---doubtful, could only be blocked or fitted facing the wrong way.
5. Yes--on pin A of the Data Link Connector---You do show a MIL(Malfunction Indicator Lamp) with Ignition ON and Engine OFF?
Then jumpering A to B on the DLC should make MIL flash DTC 12
4. [alright... my multi meter crapped out so imma try to get one today.... however... the one thing im still not understanding... i unhooked the solenoid from vaccum and ran vaccum straight to the EGR... so the solenoid is plugged up electricly, but no vaccum.... the car still governs out when i floor it... how can the solenoid have any effect on the motor's functions without vaccum? i know its the solenoid, because if i disconnect it electrically, the car wont govern at all... ive also replaced the solenoid with a brand new AC Delco one... same thing with a new solenoid....]
When you say the car won't govern at all with the solenoid electrically disconnected do you mean it runs properly?
Alont
alont wrote:Hi Kyle
When you say the car won't govern at all with the solenoid electrically disconnected do you mean it runs properly?
Alont
yes with the solenoid disconnected it'll run properly...
i've also by passed the solenoid and ran vaccum to the EGR 24/7 ... the car boggles a little bit more at idle... but once its warm it wont stall out like it did with the bad EGR i had on there...
I bought a new throttle body at the junkyard today...
tomorrow im going to get a new gasket and MAP Sensor from the parts store...
once i get all carbon deposits out of it, ill hook it up... i also got to take visual note of how vaccum is run ... everything else is looking pretty good...
