My son drove to the mall, came out car started for a couple seconds, then stalled. I brought it home and found no fire to plug wires. I had a used coil pack and module assembly and changed that, same thing started for a few seconds. I then replaced the crank sensor. same thing nothing. I removed the used coil and module assembly and reinstalled the original one, started for a few seconds. The car is a 92 with a 2.2 around 150K miles. only code is about electronic spark control. Any tips, clues, may i have 2 ignition modules that are bad. the used one I had im sure was good i removed it from a running engine, stored inside for 2 years.
Thank you, Tom

Well I will take a stab at the issue.I am not super fluent with the engine.However being you replaced the crank sensor the only other piece that may (quote) may be the ecm is bad.In my chiltons which is for 82-94 it has some detailed info in the emissions and eng control systems chapter you may want to read up on. Unless the coils are not up to the job(possibly).You might want to try new parts.I am sure those who have the second gens prob can answer this bet

i just bought a used ecm off ebay. no big hurry car will be stored for winter. My son complains the thing is cold in the winter, top is new but cold. thank you
Tom

To me, I always like to look at air, fuel & spark...how about the air filter or the duct from there to the "carb", is it getting enough air?

MAP sensors are also good causes of stalling. I'd just hate to see an ECM replaced when they aren't the culprit. Just sayin' I'd look at anything other than the ECM.

If anyone figures this out, there's still people interested. My 93 Cav is doing the same thing.

I replaced the ECM, Ig. Mod., Coil Packs, Plugs, Plug Wires, Crank Sensor, and Crank Sensor Harness. I'm pretty sure there's NOTHING left to change in the ignition system. I even pulled the dash out and traced EVERY wire to make sure I had no shorts or breaks.

This seems to be an EXTREMELY COMMON PROBLEM with 2nd gen Cavs... and all of them that I've heard of crap out around 150k miles. Mine being no exception. I'm almost wondering if GM programmed in some cripple-ware in the ECMs that's supposed to take effect some time after the 150k mark.

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GM = Generally Malfunctions

'93 Crapalier Wagon 2.2L

I never did figure it out. The car is stored in the barn until spring. I recently attempted to start it, same thing started for a second, then stalled. I was emailed a text about this thread, so I am still interested.

Yours is actually doing more than mine's done since it went down. Even though the spark and fuel sometimes work, they never even make the engine so much as bump. It just keeps spinning without starting.

And I forgot to mention on this thread about the last time I pulled the crank sensor. It had a tiny piece of metal, about the size of a pencil lead, stuck to it. Does anyone know anything about the reluctor ring that it reads off of? I kinda think that it may have somehow gotten chipped. Is it replaceable, or do I have to swap the entire crankshaft if it's damaged?

I've actually had my Cav parked at my sister's house (where it last died) for several months. I didn't really care to get it fixed since it was easier to do an engine swap in my Altima than troubleshoot this problem. But I slid on some snow and totaled the Altima and I'm thinking it might be easier to get the Cav back running than to convert the spare auto-trans Altima body (only) to fit my manual trans. I'm probably wrong, but figured it was worth a try.

I had to charge up the battery to try it out again, even though the battery was unhooked while it was parked. I don't think this has anything to do with the problem though, because the last time it did this, when it finally cranked the battery was noticeably discharged from me trying to start it unsuccessfully all day.

And as a last resort, has anyone ever swapped the ignition system from a carbed 2.2 onto a EFI 2.2? If so, what parts are required for the swap? I'm pretty sure the carbed system runs off the cams, right?


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GM = Generally Malfunctions

'93 Crapalier Wagon 2.2L

Tom try replacing the oil pressure sender it should be above the oil filter or close to it.It should have a two wire connection.If the car does not have gauge for oil,it will have the normal warning light that comes on with the key on,only and it will be beside the oil press sender single wire.Now to explain the oil pressure sender(sense oil pressure all the time) like a normal guaged unit and if this is bad or blocked with debris it not sense oil and not ground.Next being it may be bad it in conjunction with the system kills fuel,and electrical to the inject so it will not damage the engine.Maybe this will help or not,idk but,schematics I have read and knowledge of this are old news to me and figured this is something to consider for under 15.00 at most auto stores.Make sure u get the part for pressure,bc it can be mixed up with teh idiot light single terminal part.Check ur part and compare online first is my suggestion.

I never thought of that. I wont get to it for a few weeks. Thanks, Ill post results, that makes sense. At this point I will try anything. I did replace the ecm with a used ebay one. My son loves this car, but its making me look bad now. I tried to find a newer cavalier convertible, no luck yet. Thanks for keeping this old post alive. I still need to fix.
Tom

From my experience trying out that solution, if you hear your fuel pump running, your oil pressure sensor is not causing the problem. I even jumpered the harness to make sure it has a good connection... that only makes the fuel pump run constantly.

I fear you're in the same predicament that I'm in. I've replaced the entire ignition system with known-good parts and some new parts for the cheaper and more failure prone items, I still have no spark and no fuel from the injectors. Pump runs great (I replaced it a week after I bought the car).

I'm seriously stumped on this one. I've never had this kind of problem with a Ford or Dodge, and certainly never with any import. It seems like every other post on this forum is from people with the same problem and it never gets solved. I'm almost ready to give up on mine and I'm never buying a post-'85 GM again.


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GM = Generally Malfunctions

'93 Crapalier Wagon 2.2L

Im not at all impressed with this car. It was a fun project, but now makes me look bad. I also have replaced everything I thought. I was considering the ignition switch. Still in barn stored. May need to break down and bring to stealership.

Of course, every situation is different, but in my case the ignition switch worked perfect and I still had this problem.

Stealership... That's a good way to describe GM dealers.


I'm not sure if you'd want to risk damaging some wiring to diagnose a problem, but I came up with a trick to make testing the crank sensor a breeze. It's simple really. I just stripped back the plastic covering over the crank sensor harness and spliced in some wires and attached some of those little red (not sure what gauge it is, but it's the same size as multimeter probes) couplers.

This way you only have to hook it up to your multimeter and unhook from the ICM to test the crank sensor, without worrying about finding needles to put into the other end of the harness so you don't stretch it out. It also would come in handy to get a real-time reading while you're trying to crank up. I haven't had a chance to test it out since I put the harness together, but I'm pretty sure this should tell me what I've been wondering about... if my crankshaft reluctor ring is still intact.

And if you're wondering what the readings for a good crank sensor are: 900-1200 Ohms (at rest), ~3 mV (cranking)
Found those on the internet and they match up to a fresh-out-the-box crank sensor. I used a piece of ferrous metal to test it out the cranking readings since I brought the crank sensor home and the car is at my sister's house. Should have a chance to test it out tomorrow. Last time I tested it with needles (several months ago) it had a signal, but only of 1 mV. I'm wondering if that was a problem with my connections, or a problem with the reluctor. Money's reluctantly on the reluctor.


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GM = Generally Malfunctions

'93 Crapalier Wagon 2.2L

"crankshaft reluctor ring "

I assume this is the piece on the crank that triggers the sensor. How is it held in place? How does it get replaced. I am currently watching for a engine. Problem is these cars are getting old now, not many left in the year range the engine will work from. I recently found a 93 with 75K but the engine skipped real bad. That is exactly what was wrong with the original engine in this car, turns out it was cracked piston. I did not buy and risk it be junk.

I finally got it working! After searching online through TONS of different forums, I came across a post (not on this one) of a guy describing my problem EXACTLY. He even listed off the same parts that he had replaced. No one ever even replied to help him, but thankfully he solved his problem and posted back.

Turns out it was the ignition module. Even though I had already replaced it with one that worked in a different Cav and tested OK at the 3 major auto parts stores, it was still junk. I guess it just had an intermittent issue that my Cav decided to make a permanent problem.

So it wouldn't hurt to go to a Pull-A-Part or U-Pull-It junkyard and get a new ignition module under warranty. If it doesn't fix your problem, you can always take it back and get a refund credit for the next time you need a junkyard part.

Hope this helps you out, Tom. Good luck.


That's what I meant by the reluctor ring. Not sure if that's the right technical term for it, but that's what my dad referred to it as. Since he's an ASE certified mechanic, I'll take his word for it.

My '93 skips real bad too. Sounds almost like a diesel. I wonder if that's its problem... Thing chugs gas like a V12, so I wouldn't put anything past it.


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GM = Generally Malfunctions

'93 Crapalier Wagon 2.2L

Joe,
Thanks for the follow up. I was going to get a brand new one. The other parts I replaced were with new. The module was another off a running car. So that was first on list to replace with new. Thank you again.
Tom

Hopefully that works for you. I'm not sure what difference there were with the ignition system between your '92 and my '93, but if they're the same, then that's likely the problem (I'm not sure if yours would still have a distributor or not.).

One other thing that you might try is the crank sensor harness. The first of the 3 times mine has failed on me, that was the problem. They're cheap at a junkyard, so you might as well grab a few just in case one you pick up is bad. I wouldn't recommend getting one new... you'll spend over $50 for what's basically 2 6" wires with plugs on each end. You can get 5 at the junkyard for under $10 (Depending on the place, this might include a 30 day warranty.). If this works, it's surely cheaper than the $150+ of a new ignition module.

I changed the subject back to the original so people don't look at the last post, get the wrong idea, and think YOUR problem is fixed.


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GM = Generally Malfunctions

'93 Crapalier Wagon 2.2L

I was reading an description for an ebay auction for ecm. The ad says to change the chip inside the ecm, I never did. Maybe this is my problem. So I matched up the part number on the ecm, should I have still changed the chip inside? Thanks Tom

Well yes there are 3 parts inside the ecm that have to be switched over to the NEW ecm.PROM= programmable read only memory,CALPAK =calibration pack and last MEM-CAL =memory and calibration.All three need to be removed from your OLD unit and installed.These items are very specific to your car based on it's engine,transaxle,axle ratio and other items.I will suggest buying a haynes manual for the 1982-1994 Gm J bodies sold at advance,auto zone,or napa, etc.Cost 24.00 pretty much at most stores.However if you can wait order one from http://www.rockauto.com there's are around 12-14 bux plus shipping.In this manual it will show you what each components look like,how to remove,and install.It does have pics!It is covered in chapter 6 under Emissions and engine control systems.I bet if you swap these over the car probably will run.Being you did not do that,I was under the impression you knew up until ur most current post.

If the car you got the ECM from was the same model, year, and engine, I'm pretty sure it should crank up with no problems. It might go down the road a little funny if you took it out of a different body style (sedan, coupe, wagon) because of the differing transmission data, but it should at least crank and run. Not sure what would happen if it's a different model of the same year with the same engine. Still seems like it would crank, but I'm not sure.

Getting the book would be a good idea, but not necessary. The Haynes Manual covers so many different cars and engines (with no specific mention of the 2.2 ANYWHERE, it's basically a bored out 2.0) that it misses a lot of important information. You'll probably only use about 10 pages in the entire book unless you want to take the engine completely apart.

When removing the chips, be very careful with them. Pull them out straight, not one side then the other. Pulling them out at an angle can damage the pins.
And to be sure you put them in right, take pictures or draw a sketch of the chips in the ECM. Might even want to mark one corner of each chip with a marker or paint stick.
When putting the chips in, press them in gently. If they feel like they're binding, make sure the pins are going into the holes correctly. You don't want to bust your chips by bending or breaking the pins.
And during all these steps, make sure you have grounded off any static (touch your hands and any tools you will use to exposed metal on the body)! If you see a spark while you're swapping chips... you just fried something.




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GM = Generally Malfunctions

'93 Crapalier Wagon 2.2L